Every July; Seems like it's 'free 5 days rent' month, and I'm sick of it

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docmirror

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Another tenant rant. This is the third year in a row almost every tenant is late with the rent each July.

1. 'Oh, I can't find your routing number, I will send it today'.

2. 'I sent it USPS express on Thursday.'(photo of the receipt showing delivery sched 7/6/15).

3. 'My husband and I might be breaking up, it has been a tough couple of weeks'.

4. 'I thought I had until the 5th?' (today is 6th, still no check).

5. Nothing from them, won't answer phone, or text. But - as soon as the AC stopped late last month, they called and texted every 2 hours until it was fixed.

Losers, one and all. And I rent nice homes in nice areas. No sec 8. I just don't get what July 4th holiday has to do with anything when the rent is due on the 1st(last Wed.)

Go ahead renters, make your excuses. I'm sure somehow it's all my fault.
 
In your lease, you should stipulate a heavy late penalty. They pay that a few times and they may change their minds.
 
Is your cash flow really that tight? In the business world, no one bats an eye at 5 days late..
 
Norman said:
In your lease, you should stipulate a heavy late penalty. They pay that a few times and they may change their minds.
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Some states where I lease/rent houses don't allow excessive late fees. In states that I do enforce the late fees, we have a lot less trouble.

Alternately, when I have a significant late fee, the tenant has been known to send a bad check on time, and then follow up with a good check later, but they get the 2 week float while I wait for the check to be returned, and then they send a good one along with an argument that they don't owe the late fee because they sent the (bad) check on time. It never ends with tenants.
 
docmirror said:
Another tenant rant. This is the third year in a row almost every tenant is late with the rent each July.

1. 'Oh, I can't find your routing number, I will send it today'.

2. 'I sent it USPS express on Thursday.'(photo of the receipt showing delivery sched 7/6/15).

3. 'My husband and I might be breaking up, it has been a tough couple of weeks'.

4. 'I thought I had until the 5th?' (today is 6th, still no check).

5. Nothing from them, won't answer phone, or text. But - as soon as the AC stopped late last month, they called and texted every 2 hours until it was fixed.

Losers, one and all. And I rent nice homes in nice areas. No sec 8. I just don't get what July 4th holiday has to do with anything when the rent is due on the 1st(last Wed.)

Go ahead renters, make your excuses. I'm sure somehow it's all my fault.
Click to expand...

Here is what I did:

I used to own a lot of units (think 100's). I would rather run through hell with gasoline pants on than do it again but this fixed that problem.

I signed leases with on-time payment "bonuses". Lets say you had a unit that you would charge $500/month. I would have a sliding scale for not paying on time. If they paid on time every month they got to keep the "bonus" I considered 5pm on the 1st or before on time. 5:01pm you lost the bonus and your new rent was $520/month from then on if you paid within 24hrs.

It was a n additional $20 per month for the length of the lease for each day of late.

This was inspiring and no one wanted to lose the "bonus". The really bad tenants never made it past 6 days because the rent was now $620, it got the scumbags out fast.

If they left the unit clean I would refund their last rent payment and on to the next one. Good luck hope it helps.

Oh if you are worried about litigation I got sued 6x all 6 dismissed, one time the judge congratulated me on the contract. Even with most units being mobile homes I had very little late payers. Last thing if a tenants went an entire year no late pays I never raised there rent. One single mom went 5 years....
 
docmirror said:
Some states where I lease/rent houses don't allow excessive late fees. In states that I do enforce the late fees, we have a lot less trouble.

Alternately, when I have a significant late fee, the tenant has been known to send a bad check on time, and then follow up with a good check later, but they get the 2 week float while I wait for the check to be returned, and then they send a good one along with an argument that they don't owe the late fee because they sent the (bad) check on time. It never ends with tenants.
Click to expand...

My solution gets around the late "fee".....
 
dell30rb said:
Is your cash flow really that tight? In the business world, no one bats an eye at 5 days late..
Click to expand...

No, not at all. But 5 days late, every couple months turns into 7 days late, then 12 days late, then a month, etc. Tenants will take every opportunity to delay paying. You can't let them slide or the law will look at it as being an accepted business practice and then I'll have trouble with enforcing any kind of discipline.

I was literally in a court room late last year where the tenant said; 'well, I didn't pay on time in Nov because he didn't tell me I was late with rent in July, Aug and Oct so I though that was ok'. Basically her defense was that I needed to call/email/write here each month that she's late, or she didn't need to be on time in the future. The judge apparently thought that was a decent excuse because while he did find there were grounds to evict(she was tossed out on the street on 14 Feb), I didn't win any back late rent penalties.
 
tlrussell said:
Here is what I did:

I used to own a lot of units (think 100's). I would rather run through hell with gasoline pants on than do it again but this fixed that problem.

I signed leases with on-time payment "bonuses". Lets say you had a unit that you would charge $500/month. I would have a sliding scale for not paying on time. If they paid on time every month they got to keep the "bonus" I considered 5pm on the 1st or before on time. 5:01pm you lost the bonus and your new rent was $520/month from then on if you paid within 24hrs.

It was a n additional $20 per month for the length of the lease for each day of late.

This was inspiring and no one wanted to lose the "bonus". The really bad tenants never made it past 6 days because the rent was now $620, it got the scumbags out fast.

If they left the unit clean I would refund their last rent payment and on to the next one. Good luck hope it helps.

Oh if you are worried about litigation I got sued 6x all 6 dismissed, one time the judge congratulated me on the contract. Even with most units being mobile homes I had very little late payers. Last thing if a tenants went an entire year no late pays I never raised there rent. One single mom went 5 years....
Click to expand...

Yup, seen this kind of arrangement before. In some states, it's not allowed. In states where it is allowed, I'm thinking of a similar bonus program. The county tax authority does it(bonus for early payment, graduating scale for each month late), so I figured it was legal for me to do it as well. I was wrong...

Edit: I'm 6 for 7 in court. The one I lost against a woman who gave birth to a deformed baby, sued me for mold in the house. I had the inspection report showing no mold except for common allergens found everywhere in the world. She said there was mold in the duct work -- which is interesting because the house had no ducts, just wall heaters. She also left some nasty gunk out on the stove for 3-4 weeks, and took some graphic pictures of it. She'd lived in the house for almost 2 years, and took my insurance co for $70k(25% to the liars, lawyers I'm sure). Bad baby is hard to get around...
 
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docmirror said:
Some states where I lease/rent houses don't allow excessive late fees. In states that I do enforce the late fees, we have a lot less trouble.

Alternately, when I have a significant late fee, the tenant has been known to send a bad check on time, and then follow up with a good check later, but they get the 2 week float while I wait for the check to be returned, and then they send a good one along with an argument that they don't owe the late fee because they sent the (bad) check on time. It never ends with tenants.
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Think month to month lease. Or call the bank to see if funds are available.

One bad check and one good check.... file on the bad one, claim you never got the second one (unless they have delivery confirmation) and do not charge a late fee, charge the filing cost.

Still, its all a hassle, but fun for me when I had investment property.
 
docmirror said:
Yup, seen this kind of arrangement before. In some states, it's not allowed. In states where it is allowed, I'm thinking of a similar bonus program. The county tax authority does it(bonus for early payment, graduating scale for each month late), so I figured it was legal for me to do it as well. I was wrong...
Click to expand...
The first two times I was challenged on the contract we made a change that actually outlined the rent being $620 instead of $500 but with on time payment I would accept $500. I never had another case go more than 10 minutes. Florida is very tenant friendly seriously pay a lawyer an hour to do the research....
 
tlrussell said:
The first two times I was challenged on the contract we made a change that actually outlined the rent being $620 instead of $500 but with on time payment I would accept $500. I never had another case go more than 10 minutes. Florida is very tenant friendly seriously pay a lawyer an hour to do the research....
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I'll investigate again. Maybe the specific wording of the contract is the key. So, I think the way it should read would be:

"Tenants agree to pay landlord as base rent the sum of $1795.00 per month, due and payable on the first day of each calendar month. Any rent amount received by landlord on or before the 3rd day of each month will be discounted $200 for a total or $1595.00. Rental amounts received by landlord after the 3rd calendar month will not be accepted, and Unlawful Detainer actions will be enforced".
 
docmirror said:
Thanks for that. I'll investigate again. Maybe the specific wording of the contract is the key. So, I think the way it should read would be:

"Tenants agree to pay landlord as base rent the sum of $1795.00 per month, due and payable on the first day of each calendar month. Any rent amount received by landlord on or before the 3rd day of each month will be discounted $200 for a total or $1595.00. Rental amounts received by landlord after the 3rd calendar month will not be accepted, and Unlawful Detainer actions will be enforced".
Click to expand...

The best thing about Mobile Homes in Florida they are literally taxed and titled as vehicles. There is no eviction, just repossession....its awesome. I had a shackle on everyone of them with there own drop box for the rent. I had a huge lock on the box. 5pm if the check was not in there I moved the lock to the front door....
 
how is it "5 free rent days"
are they not paying the full amount?

Is the 5th really that unacceptable?
 
tlrussell said:
The best thing about Mobile Homes in Florida they are literally taxed and titled as vehicles. There is no eviction, just repossession....its awesome. I had a shackle on everyone of them with there own drop box for the rent. I had a huge lock on the box. 5pm if the check was not in there I moved the lock to the front door....
Click to expand...

There's good and bad to the mobile home plan, I've never rented one out, but I've heard some horror stories. The best one I can recall right now was the lady who bought 8-9 of those bug bomb canisters that you used to get to kill the bugs in the place, she set them all off at once and left the place. The water heater pilot light blew the mobile into about a cajillion little pieces, and damaged the three units near it. The other story was a old guy who refused to leave the unit, even after he was locked in. He got his food delivered through the window, and stayed in there for 4 months, never leaving the place for even a minute.
 
PeeGee said:
how is it "5 free rent days"
are they not paying the full amount?

Is the 5th really that unacceptable?
Click to expand...

Rent is due on the first. It's not really free, just an expression.

Yes, the 5th is unacceptable. Try paying your credit card, or mortgage payment 5 days late with no interest compounded, see what BofA, Chase, or Visa or MC think of that. (BTW, most mortgages include a float time, so payments in their hand on the 5th would be considered on time. However, if the payment is after the cut-off date, you owe a late fee, and if you don't pay it, the amount of the late fee is added to your principle, and interest accrues).
 
Lease that requires automatic withdrawal work?
 
docmirror said:
There's good and bad to the mobile home plan, I've never rented one out, but I've heard some horror stories. The best one I can recall right now was the lady who bought 8-9 of those bug bomb canisters that you used to get to kill the bugs in the place, she set them all off at once and left the place. The water heater pilot light blew the mobile into about a cajillion little pieces, and damaged the three units near it. The other story was a old guy who refused to leave the unit, even after he was locked in. He got his food delivered through the window, and stayed in there for 4 months, never leaving the place for even a minute.
Click to expand...

Not in Florida. I take repo letter to sheriff and he kicks them out. $55 and they're out.
 
Hell, I'd be overjoyed to get rent by the 6th of any month. But then again, your property attracts better renters than mine.
 
bnt83 said:
Lease that requires automatic withdrawal work?
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I have one tenant on that, and there's an override stop that the payer can send to the bank. Also of course, if there's insufficient funds, the auto payment won't go out. It may seem strange to us, but there are tons of people out there that live literally paycheck to paycheck. An unexpected transmission overhaul one month puts the whole house of cards in jeopardy.

the thought of money in the bank to spend on a Garmin 430 upgrade would be a completely foreign concept. Something out of the twilight zone.
 
docmirror said:
I have one tenant on that, and there's an override stop that the payer can send to the bank. Also of course, if there's insufficient funds, the auto payment won't go out. It may seem strange to us, but there are tons of people out there that live literally paycheck to paycheck. An unexpected transmission overhaul one month puts the whole house of cards in jeopardy.

the thought of money in the bank to spend on a Garmin 430 upgrade would be a completely foreign concept. Something out of the twilight zone.
Click to expand...

I'm sure if I had a car payment or kids, I'd be uncomfortably close to that category
 
tlrussell said:
Not in Florida. I take repo letter to sheriff and he kicks them out. $55 and they're out.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna have to look into that further. Never considered mobiles, all of mine are SFDs with a few apts.

Hehe, I just got another email today, saying the AC isn't working, doesn't blow cold air. I sent the repair guy in, and the AC is working fine, but the tenant put the selector in the 'high air' mode. When they put it in the little snow flake mode, the electric bill goes sky high. hehe - welcome to air conditioning, doof. Here's your sign.
 
warthog1984 said:
1) if no check on the 1st, come around on the 2nd, not the fifth.

2) get better tenants. Professionals generally don't do carp like that.
Click to expand...

1) goto beach

2) find lamp, start rubbing...

renters rent for a reason...I had a over 75 MH's at one time and many houses. a dozen or so of the houses were real value over $500K...they were literally the worst of the bunch. You can scare a single mom in a 500.00 MH . The dick in your $650K house has got you.
 
docmirror said:
No, not at all. But 5 days late, every couple months turns into 7 days late, then 12 days late, then a month, etc. Tenants will take every opportunity to delay paying. You can't let them slide or the law will look at it as being an accepted business practice and then I'll have trouble with enforcing any kind of discipline.
Click to expand...
I don't care to go into it again because it ****es me off, but what you say is the honest-to-God truth.
And it applies to more than just rent.

I used to use the "bonus" concept too for rent payments and it really works. People will sell their children to pay on time before they give up that bonus.
 
tlrussell said:
renters rent for a reason...I had a over 75 MH's at one time and many houses. a dozen or so of the houses were real value over $500K...they were literally the worst of the bunch. You can scare a single mom in a 500.00 MH . The dick in your $650K house has got you.
Click to expand...

effin-A, well told. See the bad baby post. I've got liability insurance for the expensive places. It's kind of strange that tenants don't realize they live in a half million dollar home, and have paid a pittance for security. Sadly, the state limits what I can charge. I'm about ready to cash out of most of this, and live happy.
 
That's why I own REITs instead of investment property....
 
JOhnH said:
I don't care to go into it again because it ****es me off, but what you say is the honest-to-God truth.
And it applies to more than just rent.

I used to use the "bonus" concept too for rent payments and it really works. People will sell their children to pay on time before they give up that bonus.
Click to expand...

amen.
 
dans2992 said:
That's why I own REITs instead of investment property....
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Yeah, what could go wrong with having a piece of paper that says you own a controlling interest in a company that owns a controlling interest in a investment, that is a real property, or a loan on a real property, or a lease on a real property?

REITs are not exempt from risk, and they do not offer remotely the investment gain of actual property ownership. But - to each his own. I would not advise anyone on their investment strategy except a blood relative.
 
weilke said:
Sec 8 is less trouble. Same clientele but the voucher comes on time.
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I did a sec 8 in 1991. Over the life of the rental, I got paid pretty much on time, but the cost to reno the place at the end of the tenancy was -- impressive. You can't believe where we found feces in the place when they left. I'm thinking they might have sub-let to a family of Orangutans. I guess, since the tenant had no money at stake, they pretty much left it worse than a Conoco gas station bathroom in downtown Detroit.
 
And that's why I will never be a landlord ever again. Flip em and leave em!
 
docmirror said:
I did a sec 8 in 1991. Over the life of the rental, I got paid pretty much on time, but the cost to reno the place at the end of the tenancy was -- impressive. You can't believe where we found feces in the place when they left. I'm thinking they might have sub-let to a family of Orangutans. I guess, since the tenant had no money at stake, they pretty much left it worse than a Conoco gas station bathroom in downtown Detroit.
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Sec8 becomes bearable once you own 30 of them and employ a full time manager/enforcer.

Oh, and it only works with painted concrete masonry walls and PVC flooring throughout.
 
docmirror said:
Yeah, what could go wrong with having a piece of paper that says you own a controlling interest in a company that owns a controlling interest in a investment, that is a real property, or a loan on a real property, or a lease on a real property?



REITs are not exempt from risk, and they do not offer remotely the investment gain of actual property ownership. But - to each his own. I would not advise anyone on their investment strategy except a blood relative.
Click to expand...


Well, just like real property, you have to pick the REITs carefully.

You can lose your ass on real property too....
 
docmirror said:
Rent is due on the first. It's not really free, just an expression.

Yes, the 5th is unacceptable. Try paying your credit card, or mortgage payment 5 days late with no interest compounded, see what BofA, Chase, or Visa or MC think of that. (BTW, most mortgages include a float time, so payments in their hand on the 5th would be considered on time. However, if the payment is after the cut-off date, you owe a late fee, and if you don't pay it, the amount of the late fee is added to your principle, and interest accrues).
Click to expand...

I never had a problem with a tenant paying on the 5th, especially with a holiday weekend between the first and 5th. Round about the 10th I started to get irritated.
 
PeeGee said:
I never had a problem with a tenant paying on the 5th, especially with a holiday weekend between the first and 5th. Round about the 10th I started to get irritated.
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I'm happy to report that you and I are very different people. I hope your arrangement with your creditors is equally as liberal. Somehow, I think they expect to get paid, when the bill is due. But - pay Visa/MC/BofA/Chase/etc 5 days late, I'm sure it'll work out fine.
 
docmirror said:
I'm happy to report that you and I are very different people. I hope your arrangement with your creditors is equally as liberal. Somehow, I think they expect to get paid, when the bill is due. But - pay Visa/MC/BofA/Chase/etc 5 days late, I'm sure it'll work out fine.
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The **** are you on about now? Your chase bill is due on the first, and yet when does the late fee apply? It certainly isn't on the 2nd. As the other fellow said, if your cash flow is that tight perhaps you should reassess your situation.
 
PeeGee said:
The **** are you on about now? Your chase bill is due on the first, and yet when does the late fee apply? It certainly isn't on the 2nd. As the other fellow said, if your cash flow is that tight perhaps you should reconsider your situation.
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Oh yes it is. You pay after the due date you get hit with a late charge. They will usually waive it if it is a rarity, but you gotta call and beg. It's happened to me twice in the past two decades.and keeping a tight reign on your cash flow is the best way to assure you stay solvent.
 
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