Ever heard of a Pilot with extreme fear of drops, + training questions

jarod

jarod

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Hello everyone, hope all is well for everybody. This is kinda an long and silly post so sorry in advance but here goes, My name is Jarod and I’m 19. I’ve always been into airplanes and aviation and always loved learning the mechanics of how they work and fly but for the longest time I never thought I’d be a pilot.

I’ve always been TERRIFIED of drops…. Not heights mind you, but drops the feeling of negative G that you get in your stomach, I would rather get hit by a bus than deal with that. And so every time I flew (which was often about 10 times a year) I’d be in awe about the view but also at the same time be nervous to death of turbulence or ( I know it’s next to impossible but, the wing or elevator failing in flight). So despite loving planes and flying this for the most part has kept me from ever thinking I’d be a pilot.

Flash forward to now and I just graduated HS and after doing AFJROTC I wanted to join the AF as a engine mechanic but Before I did my grandfather who has been a pilot for 45 years finally dragged me up on a flight with him and let me use the controls abit…. And needless to say I got absolutely hooked. I did some scrounging for funds and am currently a student pilot in flight school and I’m about 10 hours into my training and I’m loving it, unfortunately I still haven’t quite gotten over my fear of falling and I’m constantly in the back of my head paranoid about falling out of the sky from a structural failure.

Let me just say I absolutely Love flying right now, the view is just amazing and the feeling flying a plane and how it just “floats” I love it. All the complexity behind lift and physics weather and engines.

I just was wondering if anyone here would maybe have any advice or could offer suggestions to help me fully conquer my fear of falling and my worries of aircraft.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this I greatly appreciate it!
Jarod
 
How much stall practice have you done in those 10 hours?
 
What’s the best way to alleviate fears? Do what you fear! I suggest getting your feet wet with some aerobatic training.
 
I have a few years at this and still can't take even semi-aerobatic maneuvers....but I believe with practice and aids (I hear of wrist bands and ginger) - I think much of this can be overcome. (I learned to fly in '77) So I don't think this should be a deal breaker for you.
I also know a great pilot who constantly had nausea during his air force training, he really toughed it out (every flight he would pull his tunic out and throw up into his flight suit, hiding it from the medics etc) and this worked well - he went on to become a Thunderbird demonstration pilot and has no trouble now.
As far as structural (and engine) failures, you are wise to ALWAYS be on the look out, and be prepared for it. In the last year I had an engine blow up on me (single engine plane) and on another plane found a control cable trying to saw through structural tubing.
 
T Bird said:
How much stall practice have you done in those 10 hours?
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About 6 of them so far, 3 power ons and 3 power off stalls. One of them was during “slow flight”. While I am still perfectly able to function and fly the plane without freezing up I absolutely HATE it and it almost gives me a heart attack.

my instructor makes it barely noticeable we stall, we drop maybe half a second or so before we’re flying again. Me on the other hand we drop for at least twice as long, I kinda revert to what I know which is “ slam the nose down” kinda thought process which is unnecessary and just makes my fear worse.
On the bright side I’m very good about not touching the ailerons and entreating a spin.
 
I believe your trepidation is shared by more folks than will likely admit it. I don't view flying as dangerous but there are risks involved. Accepting the risks and using all precautions to mitigate those risks are part of the art of flying. The use of maintenance, pilot training, planning, personal limits, etc., is all part of the strategy to bring about a true joy of flight knowing that you have done all that can reasonably be done to reduce these risks.

In the book Stick & Ridder Flying by Wolfgang Langewiesche is a chapter written by Leighton Collins titled "The Dangers Of The Air" where the author goes through what most pilots believe are dangers while in reality they miss what are some of the real dangers.

Structural failure in aircraft is rare yet there many people (passengers and even pilots) that have a fear of "the wing falling off." Poor decision making as to weather (CFIT), fuel minimums (too much air in the tanks), aircraft loading (W-B & C/G), and failure to practice emergency maneuvers such as stall recovery, power off approaches, control failures, etc., is what gets pilots in trouble. Learn to fly and land the airplane within its design parameters and the wing falling off won't be a great concern.

As for not liking the negative G feeling, I'm not crazy about it either but it comes with the territory and something you will grow into over time.
 
On a side note just wondering (maybe I don’t wanna know). Has anyone actually ever heard of a wing full on failing on a Cessna or piper that hasn’t been caused by reckless flying or exceeding structure limits? That’s like what drives me paranoid every bout of turbulence.

Im curious as to which piper vs cessna would be more sound, to me I’m not sure why the cessna design just looks fragile especially with those small little struts providing all the support. I’m actually a mechanic as a job and like I understand how mechanics and physics work so I should understand it’s “safe” but that’s my brain for you.


Again though overall this is awesome and I love it I don’t want people to think I don’t enjoy this, I’m looking into possibly being able to get my commercial license I just need to work on getting my SODA for my vision first.
 
I wonder if its in your head, figuratively, as in no one wants to fall to their death. Or if its your gut and ears telling you knees to weaken, actually physical. Which I believe is instinctual and can be able to be overcome through reasoning and a bit of faith...in engineering.
 
jarod said:
About 6 of them so far, 3 power ons and 3 power off stalls. One of them was during “slow flight”. While I am still perfectly able to function and fly the plane without freezing up I absolutely HATE it and it almost gives me a heart attack.

my instructor makes it barely noticeable we stall, we drop maybe half a second or so before we’re flying again. Me on the other hand we drop for at least twice as long, I kinda revert to what I know which is “ slam the nose down” kinda thought process which is unnecessary and just makes my fear worse.
On the bright side I’m very good about not touching the ailerons and entreating a spin.
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My memory may not be perfect but I recall doing way more stalls than that in my first 10 hours of training and I never even really had any issues with them. I would highly recommend going up to altitude for a few lessons and pretty much only doing stalls, and doing a ton of them, in all different configurations. As others have said I do think it can be overcome with practice but I think you really need to dive head first into embracing those fears. You may absolutely hate it but if you do it a dozen times per lesson before you know it you will merely dislike it. Then do it some more and at some point you'll tolerate it. Hell you may even enjoy practicing the maneuver one day. I don't think you need to go do aerobatic lessons, although that could be beneficial, but I'd absolutely do a ton of stall practice. At altitude I'd go into a stall and leave it there and let it drop for a while to just get used to that feeling more and more and work to get comfortable with it. Before you know it your fears will be alleviated a bit and you'll be recovering as well as your instructor does.
 
Daleandee said:
I believe your trepidation is shared by more folks than will likely admit it. I don't view flying as dangerous but there are risks involved. Accepting the risks and using all precautions to mitigate those risks are part of the art of flying. The use of maintenance, pilot training, planning, personal limits, etc., is all part of the strategy to bring about a true joy of flight knowing that you have done all that can reasonably be done to reduce these risks.

In the book Stick & Ridder Flying by Wolfgang Langewiesche is a chapter written by Leighton Collins titled "The Dangers Of The Air" where the author goes through what most pilots believe are dangers while in reality they miss what are some of the real dangers.

Structural failure in aircraft is rare yet there many people (passengers and even pilots) that have a fear of "the wing falling off." Poor decision making as to weather (CFIT), fuel minimums (too much air in the tanks), aircraft loading (W-B & C/G), and failure to practice emergency maneuvers such as stall recovery, power off approaches, control failures, etc., is what gets pilots in trouble. Learn to fly and land the airplane within its design parameters and the wing falling off won't be a great concern.

As for not liking the negative G feeling, I'm not crazy about it either but it's comes with the territory.
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Thank you for the input! I’d definitely have to agree with you there are certain risks that come with flying and I understand and accept that, I’m just looking mostly to see if anyone else ever shares that fear and how they handle it being as unlikely as it is.

I really appreciate all of your help, I never replied to my last thread but your advice allowed me to get a special issuance for my 20/30 vision and now hopefully my AME thinks chances are very high when I get my checkride I’ll be given a SODA for it. So thanks!
 
Robert Gee said:
I wonder if its in your head, figuratively, as in no one wants to fall to their death. Or if its your gut and ears telling you knees to weaken, actually physical.
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I’d say it’s more in my head than anything, there are times (during stall training for example) when like my knees get jittery and I white knuckle the yoke, but for most of the flight I am perfectly fine and physically calm…. Just going through the scenarios in my head if a wing crumpling in half lol
 
If you continue with your training, you'll at some point learn about something called "maneuvering speed". You can do a little googling for a preview-read if ya like.
Put simply, it's the speed at which the airplane will stall before it can break, even if you were to do sudden wrenching of the controls fully in any direction.
So it's the speed that you fly at (or below) when in rough turbulence. Protects you from structural failures.

I too hate turbulence, and also have looked askance at where bits of a Cessna join up and wondered "how strong is this really?"... But learning about maneuvering speed helped to put my mind at ease, especially about structural failures.

Hope that helps,
 
I have a fear of fall and it hampered my training quite a bit. For some it goes away, it never really went away for me. It was in my head and still is. I just don’t pay much attention to it anymore. The more you feed your fear the more it controls you. Ask me how I know it and I am fully aware setting it aside is not easy.

Nearing 500 hours, I havent fallen to earth … not yet anyway.

Keep chugging at it, it will either go away or you will get used to it.
 
I hated stalls at first. They made me ill, not because of the maneuver, but because of my fear.

I did a lot of slow flight with the plane still about 5 knots above stall, but the stall horn going off. Once I nailed that, then stalls became a non event.
 
jarod said:
Im curious as to which piper vs cessna would be more sound, to me I’m not sure why the cessna design just looks fragile especially with those small little struts providing all the support.
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Some of my early flight instruction was in various Challenger II ultralight type sport planes (I owned a clip winged version for a few years). These have a two stroke engine that is held on with two 1/4" bolts. That Cessna, if properly maintained, is quite stout.

What I fly now is a tank in comparison. I've shied away from two stroke engines and ultralight type aircraft for the most part but once in a while I still take one for a short run. I'm pretty particular about what I get into these days though.
 
jarod said:
On a side note just wondering (maybe I don’t wanna know). Has anyone actually ever heard of a wing full on failing on a Cessna or piper that hasn’t been caused by reckless flying or exceeding structure limits? That’s like what drives me paranoid every bout of turbulence.

Im curious as to which piper vs cessna would be more sound, to me I’m not sure why the cessna design just looks fragile especially with those small little struts providing all the support. I’m actually a mechanic as a job and like I understand how mechanics and physics work so I should understand it’s “safe” but that’s my brain for you.


Again though overall this is awesome and I love it I don’t want people to think I don’t enjoy this, I’m looking into possibly being able to get my commercial license I just need to work on getting my SODA for my vision first.
Click to expand...
Did you learn about maneuvering speed yet? Theoretically, if you're slow enough in turbulence, the wing will stall before it can generate structural damaging lift force.
 
jarod said:
On a side note just wondering (maybe I don’t wanna know). Has anyone actually ever heard of a wing full on failing on a Cessna or piper that hasn’t been caused by reckless flying or exceeding structure limits? That’s like what drives me paranoid every bout of turbulence.

Im curious as to which piper vs cessna would be more sound, to me I’m not sure why the cessna design just looks fragile especially with those small little struts providing all the support.
Click to expand...

Someone will likely be along soon with the actual statistics (I don't have them), but I've often heard that the strut-braced Cessnas have an almost perfect record of holding together in normal operations.
 
exncsurfer said:
Did you learn about maneuvering speed yet? Theoretically, if you're slow enough in turbulence, the wing will stall before it can generate structural damaging lift force.
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Yes I do know structural maneuvering speed, I think part of my issue is that my fear is more or less irrationally placed to begin with because it’s not so much the plane is “rated to handle it” as it is in just constantly thinking the worst.

but hey in the good uplook side I’ve come a way already when I was little I’d practically pass out from just being on a rollercoaster or even the slightest turbulence. Why I never thought I’d fly.


but now at least in my little Cessna 152 I’m training in I’m actually kinda (starting just starting) to have a little fun with the little bumps coming in for final.
 
Wings are built to be stronger than you think.

They're not going to "fold" due to turbulence experienced by most mortals.

You'd need to penetrate a VERY strong thunderstorm to experience wing-folding levels of turbulence.

Yes, there are poorly-maintained aircraft out there, but normal maintenance and inspections by capable mechanics prevent this stuff.

sitting-wing.jpg
 
One thing that makes me feel better is I actually have taking school courses on aerodynamics for flight and airplane structures and systems. And I do understand just how tough these guys are overbuilt to be FAA type rated.

Also as far as training is concerned a question for you all ( I know I’m full of questions I apologize).

According to my instructor I’m doing really good and am learning faster than most but one thing that keeps tripping me up is on my final approach. When doing pattern turning from base to final I always have a hard time staying lined up with the runway centerline.

your supposed to use the rudder to line up the runway and ailerons to remain level right, the exception would be during crosswind landings when you have to steer into it and crabwalk a little.
 
jarod said:
I always have a hard time staying lined up with the runway centerline
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What helped me with this was learning to side slip. My instructor took me to a long runway and we did low approaches side slipping from center line, to one side, back to the other side, etc.
 
Rgbeard said:
Wings are built to be stronger than you think.

They're not going to "fold" due to turbulence experienced by most mortals.

You'd need to penetrate a VERY strong thunderstorm to experience wing-folding levels of turbulence.

Yes, there are poorly-maintained aircraft out there, but normal maintenance and inspections by capable mechanics prevent this stuff.

View attachment 100722
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That’s a crazy photo lol, thanks for sharing. I have to say all of the other pilots I’ve talked too are all very nice and willing to share their knowledge and advice. I appreciate that.
 
The next time you are on a flight of stairs, on the last stair going down, jump, don't step. Once you are used to that, then do two steps, next three. Until you are cured.

I think this is an easily learned cure for you, you need to go out and face it.
 
I don't think you're much different from any sane pilot. Flying introduces odd sensations and lack of knowledge & experience causes us all to fear the wrongs things in flying. Overconfidence is as dangerous as being over-cautious, maybe more.

It's probably wise to realize that your fears are not unfounded. It is perfectly possible to pull the wings off of your butterfly.

Here is a security cam pix of a Mooney M20 hitting the ground, wing spar broken in half under the cockpit, and its wingtips clapped together in prayer above the plane. Estimates are it takes 20gs to break a Mooney wing spar.

A Cherokee Six at weaving around Tstorms at night came out of the sky down in Texas with just one wing attached recently.

The common denominator in both was flying into Thunderstorms or IMC (not to mention hubris). Tstorms can pull the wings off of any butterfly. Not much else can, however, particularly in the training class of airplanes you're flying

So a bit of fear is a good thing if it keeps you from doing something...unwise. Stick with it.
 
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For the love of god, if you have irrational fears like this (fears not based on reasonable risk) don’t watch every plane wreck video on YouTube. I know a guy that wants to fly but is scared, and he’s always telling me about the latest crash he watched. Pretty silly.
 
Salty said:
For the love of god, if you have irrational fears like this (fears not based on reasonable risk) don’t watch every plane wreck video on YouTube. I know a guy that wants to fly but is scared, and he’s always telling me about the latest crash he watched. Pretty silly.
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It's like watching all the automotive jackassery on Tesla Crash Cam on Youtube and being afraid to drive.
 
jarod said:
One thing that makes me feel better is I actually have taking school courses on aerodynamics for flight and airplane structures and systems. And I do understand just how tough these guys are overbuilt to be FAA type rated.

Also as far as training is concerned a question for you all ( I know I’m full of questions I apologize).

According to my instructor I’m doing really good and am learning faster than most but one thing that keeps tripping me up is on my final approach. When doing pattern turning from base to final I always have a hard time staying lined up with the runway centerline.

your supposed to use the rudder to line up the runway and ailerons to remain level right, the exception would be during crosswind landings when you have to steer into it and crabwalk a little.
Click to expand...
I wasn't taught this method of keeping centerline. Should be, ailerons for centerline (left/right shifting of approach path), and rudder to remove any crab due to crosswind. Your wings may not be level. If you're doing a slip method in a crosswind, the upwind wing will be low.

Or, maybe he is teaching you the crab and kick method where you stay level and crabbed until just before touchdown.

One of the hardest things for me to get was being able to visually tell my yaw alignment with the runway , since all of our time spent driving cars we don't have to worry about this. In planes its arbitrary(changeable) and you have to set it with your feet.

Try to remember the alignment while you taxi down a long straight taxi way. (sight picture). Like say, ok this is what straight ahead looks like, and try to burn that into your memory. :)

edit:
I just ready your post again, maybe when you say "your supposed to use the rudder to line up the runway and ailerons to remain level right" you are referring to lining up the yaw axis. Definitely review this with your CFI though to make sure you don't have any controls mixed up.
 
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Salty said:
For the love of god, if you have irrational fears like this (fears not based on reasonable risk) don’t watch every plane wreck video on YouTube. I know a guy that wants to fly but is scared, and he’s always telling me about the latest crash he watched. Pretty silly.
Click to expand...

uhhhhhh….. I would have no idea what your talking about, can’t imagine doing such a stupid think like that……… :|
 
rhkennerly said:
It's like watching all the automotive jackassery on Tesla Crash Cam on Youtube and being afraid to drive.
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WhambamTeslacam?
Good thing there aren't any Hondas in the sky for the Honda Bump. Oh wait, maybe we should all be a bit more afraid!
 
exncsurfer said:
I wasn't taught this method of keeping centerline. Should be, ailerons for centerline (left/right shifting of approach path), and rudder to remove any crab due to crosswind. Your wings may not be level. If you're doing a slip method in a crosswind, the upwind wing will be low.

Or, maybe he is teaching you the crab and kick method where you stay level and crabbed until just before touchdown.

One of the hardest things for me to get was being able to visually tell my yaw alignment with the runway , since all of our time spent driving cars we don't have to worry about this. In planes its arbitrary(changeable) and you have to set it with your feet.

Try to remember the alignment while you taxi down a long straight taxi way. (sight picture). Like say, ok this is what straight ahead looks like, and try to burn that into your memory. :)

edit:
I just ready your post again, maybe when you say "your supposed to use the rudder to line up the runway and ailerons to remain level right" you are referring to lining up the yaw axis. Definitely review this with your CFI though to make sure you don't have any controls mixed up.
Click to expand...


Whoops sorry I see the confusion the way I worded it, no I don’t have any of them mixed up pitch, roll or yaw I just used the wrong word trying to describe it.

What I was talking about was the final seconds when your in ground affect over the runway pulling back to flare, I often have difficulty magaing the flare and remaining on the centerline.
 
Stalls don't bug me anymore.

Stalling straight ahead is annoyingly difficult, especially power on.
 
To be fair, there always frightening things you can’t absolutely control.

We cruised a small sailboat in the Caribbean & Med for several years. The one thing that woke me in a flop sweat at night was imagining us plowing a barely submerged shipping container mid-ocean.

Thousands of containers are lost off ships each year, each lurking just below the surface waiting to rip the bottom out of your boat. If you’re going fast enough, you’ll sink in seconds.

We prepared ourselves & our voyaging home, crossed the Atlantic with the liferaft, epirb, & ditchbag in the cockpit ready to deploy, and sailed in hope.

keep training. You’ll do fine.
 
rhkennerly said:
We cruised a small sailboat in the Caribbean & Med for several years. The one thing that woke me in a flop sweat at night was imagining us plowing a barely submerged shipping container mid-ocean.

.
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All Is Lost- Robert Redford as "The Man":cornut: Same thing different ocean. Loved it!
Riding the rails during one of our Wed. evening regattas I spotted some derelict pipeline peaking out through the trough of the swells. Nearly straight up as if the other end was embedded in the shallow bay. YIKES!
 
I feel the same way. Did and still do. But I've flown a lot more now than I had when I was a student and haven't had a structural failure yet. Nevertheless, I still worry more about that than I should. Do a good preflight, make sure you're flying aircraft that are well maintained, and remind yourself of what you already know: It's an irrational fear.
 
You might've heard of Bob Hoover. One of the most famous airshow and test pilots around. I read his book, and he said he would get airsick when he flew, so to cure that, he would fly where no one could see him, and practice aerobatics. (I think he might have created some maneuvers along the way.) Anyway, he got over his airsickness.

I remember when I first started flying lessons, and even a few years later, I was spring loaded to push the stick forward on the first little burble. Now, I have no problem holding the plane in a straight ahead stall, waiting for a real stall break. (I'm working on my SPL right now).
 
Robert Gee said:
Riding the rails during one of our Wed. evening regattas I spotted some derelict pipeline peaking out through the trough of the swells. Nearly straight up as if the other end was embedded in the shallow bay. YIKES!
Click to expand...

I was on the helm in the middle of the night on a J44 in a race from Mobile to Pensacola circa 1987. We're cruising along at a decent clip and this siren goes off and a strobe starts about 200 yards off the starboard bow. Holy crap. Got the spotlight on it and it was some sort of oil equipment sticking up about 20' in the air. It must have had some sort of sensor on it to trigger the alert. Not marked on our charts but this was back in the days of LORAN so maybe our posit was off a little. :eek:

On the generic vs specific plane names, CTAF is going to get the same call sign I use with ATC.... Archer, Skylane, Skyhawk, Experimental........ I'm just not bright enough to remember to switch.



 
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