Eventual Jet Transition, KING AIR 350i or PC-12 NG

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OdenPilot

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Oden
I'm not looking to start any heated discussions about which plane is better. I'm looking for help in my goal to eventually get to jet operations.

I am a private pilot with instrument & multi-engine ratings. Currently sitting at 375 hours. I'm looking to purchase either a KA 350i or PC-12 NG by the end of the year. Here's my question: Is it better to have multi-turbine time over single-turbine? I'll use a mentor pilot for a while on both, and I realize the 350 will require a type rating.

Phenom 300 will eventually be flown, and it's multi-engine'd, as you know. Would KA be the preference because I can build significant amounts of twin turbine time before transitioning the 300? Or does it not really matter? I'm not going into an 121 or 135 job, this will all be 91 flying.
 
I would ask your insurer what they would rather see before they bite the bullet and eventually insure you on a Phenom.

From a piloting perspective you will have a higher workload with a twin turboprop than with a PC12. In return you build more multi and prove you can handle the workload. Personally, I’d built multi piston sufficiently first, then PC12, then Phenom.
 
You’re going to purchase one of these two aircraft and then fund all of the flying yourself to build time? Must be nice to have an artesian well!

Good luck!
 
RyanB said:
You’re going to purchase one of these two aircraft and then fund all of the flying yourself to build time? Must be nice to have an artesian well!

Good luck!
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I don't believe he is a time builder, from the way I read it he wants the plane for personal use.
 
I second the suggestion to ask your insurer what they would prefer to see.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I think you should hire a full time pilot and be on the crew with them and just buy the jet now. You can be the SIC now and take on more responsibility as you gain experience.
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Agreed, he should do so, my insurance premium thanks him :D
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I think you should hire a full time pilot and be on the crew with them and just buy the jet now. You can be the SIC now and take on more responsibility as you gain experience.
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This is probably the best suggestion that I have seen in a while. Bonus is, you'll have hundreds of hours as SIC when you go for that type rating, and you may actually get insured in it... Assuming that is important to you.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Agreed, he should do so, my insurance premium thanks him :D
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I think it makes the most sense. All the money spent on the turboprop can be used for pilot salary.

Plus all the time flying sic in the net is really good time for learning to fly the jet because you’re in the jet...

just don’t go cheap... hire an experienced pilot.
 
Oh hell just get the Phenom now and pay a pro to fly with you until you're insurable.
 
I don't know why anyone would think stepping up to anything else first would net out as cheaper anyway? What are you going to fly the interim step? 200 hours, 500hrs?
 
ja_user said:
I don't know why anyone would think stepping up to anything else first would net out as cheaper anyway? What are you going to fly the interim step? 200 hours, 500hrs?
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Sounds like a question a low time pilot would ask and hopefully some good ideas get floated here to keep them safe and efficient in their aviation journey.

I know I’ve asked much dumber questions over the years I’ve been flying :)
 
I’d just go get the Phenom now... for those saying fly a piston twin first... give me a break.
 
If I’m a passenger in this private pilot’s Phenom I’d have more warm fuzzies if he had more overall experience under his belt first. So there is something gained in more ME piston or ME turbine time. Flying anything complex cross country, IMC, etc etc. He hasn’t even broken 400 hours yet.

The original question appeared to be centered around building experience and cost wasn’t mentioned. Surely the cost differences in the choices may play into this, but that’s not the way I read it.
 
I’m pretty sure cost is not a factor.... ;)
 
TrueCourse said:
If I’m a passenger in this private pilot’s Phenom I’d have more warm fuzzies if he had more overall experience under his belt first. So there is something gained in more ME piston or ME turbine time. Flying anything complex cross country, IMC, etc etc. He hasn’t even broken 400 hours yet.

The original question appeared to be centered around building experience and cost wasn’t mentioned. Surely the cost differences in the choices may play into this, but that’s not the way I read it.
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I think that is plenty of experience to sit right seat. Lots of people with less have done it.
 
Sitting right seat as SIC, watching and monitoring/helping the PIC is helpful, but it’s different than acting/flying as PIC. I think we can agree on that.
 
Maybe I misunderstood your post. I’ll end it with this. I’d rather build time as ME piston or ME turboprop PIC for more valuable experience then go into the Phenom, rather than going straight into that right seat now as sub 400 hour pilot.
 
TrueCourse said:
Maybe I misunderstood your post. I’ll end it with this. I’d rather build time as ME piston or ME turboprop PIC for more valuable experience then go into the Phenom, rather than going straight into that right seat now as sub 400 hour pilot.
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Ok. I understand what you are saying. I disagree with you. That doesn’t mean I think you are wrong. Just that I think there are more reasonable and more efficient ways to safely reach the goal discussed. Doesn’t mean I’m right either. I just have a different opinion.

I’ll just put this out there for thought... I was hired to fly my first jet at approximately 700 hours total time. I had less than 15 hours of multi engine time. I didn’t fly a piston twin other than for the initial rating until after I had my third type rating.

I was a 5000 hour ATP with multiple type ratings and had a really hard time getting insured in a baron because I still only had less than 15 hours in a piston twin. I’m not special. At least not on the right side of the curve. I do fly for a living so I am kinda stupid.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my post. I’m suggesting that the OP buy the jet and hire a highly qualified captain to train him over a multi year period of time to become a PIC in the jet.

The process of becoming a PIC is a lot less painful when there is another PIC in the right seat. All those millions of dollars spent flying around alone in a turbo prop can probably buy a decade of direct mentoring in the aircraft that actually meets the mission with the benefit of a pro watching to catch the epic stupid before it happens.

Once again. Just my opinion based on my experience. Not the gospel.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Ok. I understand what you are saying. I disagree with you. That doesn’t mean I think you are wrong. Just that I think there are more reasonable and more efficient ways to safely reach the goal discussed. Doesn’t mean I’m right either. I just have a different opinion.

I’ll just put this out there for thought... I was hired to fly my first jet at approximately 700 hours total time. I had less than 15 hours of multi engine time. I didn’t fly a piston twin other than for the initial rating until after I had my third type rating.

I was a 5000 hour ATP with multiple type ratings and had a really hard time getting insured in a baron because I still only had less than 15 hours in a piston twin. I’m not special. At least not on the right side of the curve. I do fly for a living so I am kinda stupid.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my post. I’m suggesting that the OP buy the jet and hire a highly qualified captain to train him over a multi year period of time to become a PIC in the jet.

The process of becoming a PIC is a lot less painful when there is another PIC in the right seat. All those millions of dollars spent flying around alone in a turbo prop can probably buy a decade of direct mentoring in the aircraft that actually meets the mission with the benefit of a pro watching to catch the epic stupid before it happens.

Once again. Just my opinion based on my experience. Not the gospel.
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Just like anything, it can be done successfully either way. It just depends on the effort the individual puts into it.

I train a lot of 1000-hour pilots into jets. Most of them are successful, but they also mostly understand that training doesn’t end when they get the type rating.

I commented to my wife not long ago that it’s a good thing today’s pilot market didn’t exist 30 years ago...if I had gotten into jets that early, I’d be an entirely different pilot, and I don’t think it would be a “good different” for the most part.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Just like anything, it can be done successfully either way. It just depends on the effort the individual puts into it.

I train a lot of 1000-hour pilots into jets. Most of them are successful, but they also mostly understand that training doesn’t end when they get the type rating.

I commented to my wife not long ago that it’s a good thing today’s pilot market didn’t exist 30 years ago...if I had gotten into jets that early, I’d be an entirely different pilot, and I don’t think it would be a “good different” for the most part.
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I agree.

I also think you should give yourself more credit. Our base attitudes towards this business have a lot more influence than I think we recognize at times.
 
I got turned loose, single pilot, in a B1900 with a grand total of 650ish hours in an airplane (plus some airship time). I didn't kill myself, but the previous 300 hours of flying a PA31 made it a hell of a lot easier.

If you want to do the step up game, I'd just buy a bigger piston twin, get a few hundred hours, then move up to a Jet-A burner. Don't buy 2 Jet-A burners.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I agree.

I also think you should give yourself more credit. Our base attitudes towards this business have a lot more influence than I think we recognize at times.
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I think it’s more about the things that I think are important but I really wouldn’t have had the opportunity to learn. The things that make me a crusty old fart. ;)
 
Does sound Trollish or extremely naive. I don’t think insurers are insuring P300 level aircraft single owner pilot these days. Especially without Tremendous PIC experience in that level of aircraft. And even then, from what I hear the insurance rates are eye watering. I think some have left the market downsizing, or transitioning to two pilot pro flown. I just got a letter for my insurer yesterday telling me to expect a 25% rate increase, with me being an ATP with 2000 hours time in type and no claims. They’re also saying they might drop my liability limits. These are awesome times ;-). The single engine turbines are still insurable, for now. I shouldn’t complain, dollar for dollar my insurance rates are still better than my piston days. ;-)
 
Groundpounder said:
I would suspect he was a troll, people looking to spend that much money don't ask questions like that on a message board, they ask actual professionals.
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Sort of had the same thought. If King Air 350 or Phenom money is available, hiring an aviation consultant is pocket change.
 
Cervieres said:
Sort of had the same thought. If King Air 350 or Phenom money is available, hiring an aviation consultant is pocket change.
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Maybe, but just like all of us, wealthy people can be a bit illogical about where they will and won’t spend their pocket change.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Maybe, but just like all of us, wealthy people can be a bit illogical about where they will and won’t spend their pocket change.
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Illogical is a very kind way to describe basing a $5-10 million dollar purchase on input from some anonymous message board posts. Not that it matters. If this is a real post, insurance companies won’t touch single pilot turbine ops with a 375 hour pilot.
 
Cervieres said:
Illogical is a very kind way to describe basing a $5-10 million dollar purchase on input from some anonymous message board posts. Not that it matters. If this is a real post, insurance companies won’t touch single pilot turbine ops with a 375 hour pilot.
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Sure they will. There are insurers, for the right amount of money, that will basically insure anything. Just depends on what the client is willing to pay.
 
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