ERAU student killed at Spruce Creek

[JOhnH]

http://www.news-journalonline.com/n...ent-killed-in-spruce-creek-fly-in-plane-crash

An ERAU graduate was piloting a Cessna 140 with an ERAU student as passenger. They took off from Spruce Creek (7FL6) when they turned at 200 ft and hit some trees before crashing, killing the student passenger.

I always get nervous when departing 7FL6 on runway 6 because it is almost impossible to avoid busting DAB's class Charlie inner circle, unless you turn tight and soon. But 200 ft is too soon. Several Spruce Creek residents have told me that every one busts that little piece of Charlie. But visitors are not going to know that, and following the rules is dangerous.

The part about turning too soon and too low causing the crash is just my speculation, but I have thought about that possibililty every time I departed "the Creek".

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I'm having a hard time understanding how a turn at 200 feet would be different than a turn at 500 feet agl.

 

[tawood]

I'm having a hard time understanding how a turn at 200 feet would be different than a turn at 500 feet agl.

I was thinking the same thing...nearby, you and I have Dalton, 3DA, that is closer to a class C to the ground than 7FL6...I've flown out of there a few times, and it does require a quick turn to avoid the Flint Charlie, but not ridiculously, or dangerously, so...

 

[JOhnH]

I'm having a hard time understanding how a turn at 200 feet would be different than a turn at 500 feet agl.

All I know is that the article said:

A federal investigator examined the wreckage Wednesday from a fatal single-engine plane crash and said the plane only got about 200 feet above Spruce Creek Airport before turning left, hitting some trees and narrowly missing some houses when it slammed to the ground.

Would he have hit those trees if he turned at 500 feet?
But as I said, I was speculating. That is what we do here in the absence of factual information. Perhaps he turned to tight to avoid Charlie and lost lift.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'm having a hard time understanding how a turn at 200 feet would be different than a turn at 500 feet agl.

Hot day taking off with two people in a 140. Slow/sluggish climb performance. Feel rushed to turn because if airspace and you drop a wing.....

Combination of several factors.

 

[JOhnH]

I was thinking the same thing...nearby, you and I have Dalton, 3DA, that is closer to a class C to the ground than 7FL6...I've flown out of there a few times, and it does require a quick turn to avoid the Flint Charlie, but not ridiculously, or dangerously, so...

View attachment 63357

Yeah, that is close. How low do you do a left turnout from 36 to avoid busting Charlie.

 

[SkyDog58]

Was it an ERAU operation? If not, why is their relationship to ERAU relevant?

 

[James331]

His training may have played a factor

 

[Fearless Tower]

Was it an ERAU operation? If not, why is their relationship to ERAU relevant?

Typical media correlation after the Arrow fatal.

 

[SkyDog58]

His training may have played a factor

Maybe but let the media play their stupid games. It doesn’t need to happen in the title and body of a POA post.

 

[jaybee]

Local eye witness stated hearing the engine sputtering.

There is bout one mile from departure end of 6 till you get to DAB surface airspace, no need at all to stress about it.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Hot day taking off with two people in a 140. Slow/sluggish climb performance. Feel rushed to turn because if airspace and you drop a wing.....

Combination of several factors.

I've got several hours in Cessna 120's on hot days full up to gross - not a rocket ship. Yea feeling rushed he may have pulled too much.

 

[Ted]

I'm having a hard time understanding how a turn at 200 feet would be different than a turn at 500 feet agl.

Either pulling too hard and ending up in an accelerated stall due to wing loading or not pulling hard enough and descending in the turn instead of climbing.

Sadly, lots of pilots whose version of stick and rudder skills involve knowing there is a stick and knowing there is a rudder.

 

[FlySince9]

Maybe the airspace should be carved out
like this. We have something similar at CLT B Ring



How much of an imposition would that be? especially when it would be outside the approach of all FNT runways...

 

[RyanB]

Local eye witness stated hearing the engine sputtering.

No matter what the situation at hand was, that comment is always told by someone. Probably the most irrelevant piece of information on every news article.

 

[steingar]

Better to bust airspace than your six, says me.

 

[tawood]

Yeah, that is close. How low do you do a left turnout from 36 to avoid busting Charlie.

The map does make it look slightly closer than it is...but yeah, you've got just over 1/2 nm from departure end of 18 to class C. You call Flint immediately on takeoff, and at the same time turn a 180 (I can't seem to reach them on the ground, but 50 feet up I do).

 

[Zeldman]

No matter what the situation at hand was, that comment is always told by someone. Probably the most irrelevant piece of information on every news article.

I witnessed a take off stall accident once. 5 other non aviation people saw it and all said the engine was not running. The engine was at WOT from the start of the take off roll until it hit the ground. Slash marks in the ground showed that the engine was running.

 

[Dave Arata]

Yeah, that is close. How low do you do a left turnout from 36 to avoid busting Charlie.

I'm hoping you mean from 18? A left turn out off of 36 seems easy enough as long as you stay under 2100'.

 

[Kansas Flyer]

I've never been to Spruce Creek so there may be a reason for this that I don't know about, but why is runway 6 left traffic instead of right if the class C airspace is such a consideration.

 

[frfly172]

Another sad day for aviation.

 

[Shepherd]

Sad, no matter what the cause.
RIP

 

[JOhnH]

I'm hoping you mean from 18? A left turn out off of 36 seems easy enough as long as you stay under 2100'.

uh, yeah. 36.

 

[JOhnH]

I've never been to Spruce Creek so there may be a reason for this that I don't know about, but why is runway 6 left traffic instead of right if the class C airspace is such a consideration.

I have asked myself that same question several times. But I seem to be the only one that cares. I have been up with a few pilots that just don't seem to think busting "just a little piece) of Charlie is a problem.

One other issue that I have encountered at Spruce Creek is the wind differential once you cross above or below the tree line. You really need to be prepared to compensate. I have been in and out of there where people were sitting in lawn chairs with signs with numbers on them and they would rate landings. (1 through 10). If you are familiar with it, it isn't much of a problem but those ocean breezes can take you by surprise.

But as Shepherd said "No matter what the cause . . . ", it is sad.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I've no doubt there are pilots at my airport, Cable, that routinely knick Ontario's Class C when they fly their bomber-like patterns.

Hmm, circular cutout and rectangular pattern. Why not draw up the airspace with a rectangular cutout aligned with the runway? Probably makes too much sense.

 

[PaulS]

Seems like right traffic for that runway would make life easier.

 

[jaybee]

No matter what the situation at hand was, that comment is always told by someone. Probably the most irrelevant piece of information on every news article.

Well... given that Spruce Creek is a fly in community and the guy that said it holds a pilot certificate and was the one of those who pulled the body out of the crash I would say its extremely more relevant than any of the stupid ass **** people are saying on this thread...

 

[creweite]

Are there really 200 foot trees at Spruce Creek, don't recollect seeing them last time I was there, But there was a dead dear on the runway!

 

[JOhnH]

Are there really 200 foot trees at Spruce Creek, don't recollect seeing them last time I was there, But there was a dead dear on the runway!

I don't think so.

I am thinking the plane wasn't really at 200 ft msl, and since the airport elevation is ~25 ft, they may have been around 150 ft AGl or less. Even that would be a tall pine, but the majority of pine trees reach 150 ft with some reaching 250 ft.

I'm thinking they hit the trees, after losing altitude for some reason. Possibly too tight a turn. But as I keep saying, that is speculation and I am waiting to hear the official report.

 

[SkyDog58]

Are there really 200 foot trees at Spruce Creek, don't recollect seeing them last time I was there, But there was a dead dear on the runway!

Oh deer!

 

[Dave Theisen]

A witness saying “it turned left and hit the trees” doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story. Maybe it was an intentional turn, maybe it was the result of an uncoordinated stall. The C-130 in Savannah “turned left and hit the highway”

 

[RyanB]

Well... given that Spruce Creek is a fly in community and the guy that said it holds a pilot certificate and was the one of those who pulled the body out of the crash I would say its extremely more relevant than any of the stupid ass **** people are saying on this thread...

I was mainly speaking in general terms for most accident articles.