equipment tags and 8130-3's

OkieAviator

OkieAviator

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
1,866
Display Name
Display name:
OkieAviator
My "New to me" 172 has a 1977 frame and a 1974 engine. The logs I got were all shoved in a man purse satchel and had no order what so ever.

I spent an evening sorting them out into a 4" binder broken out into sections. I used sheet protectors for organized stacks and 3 ring zipper pockets for the log books. Other things such as STC's, receipts, ADs ect are all in sheet protectors.

Question is I have a ton of tags and 8130-3 forms. I get the gist of what the 8310-3 is for but even with the information put in the aircraft logs do I hold onto the 8130's until I get rid of the piece of equipment? ie just like an engine the paperwork goes with the item? What about these tags that I assume hung on the item when it was on a shelf somewhere. Do I need to keep those?
 
Personally, I keep everything. Others may have differing opinions, but the more information you have and the more organized it is, the better it looks when presenting it to a future buyer.
 
Maybe I'll redo my sections and have a "return to service" section.
 

Attachments

  • Log.jpg
    Log.jpg
    129.6 KB · Views: 52
OkieAviator said:
Maybe I'll redo my sections and have a "return to service" section.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I would do. You'd more than likely get new one's if you ever decided to just sell the equipment pieces, but having them for the aircraft as a whole is a good choice.
 
In assisting a client who was facing an FAA review of his airplane's maintenance records as part of a 709 ride, the 8130-3's saved the day in determining the applicability of some AD's without disassembling some of the engine compartment to be able to see the data tags on some engine accessories. So, I suggest hanging on to everything.
 
just to be clear....those -3's have no value and if they were to get lost....0h well no biggie. Now, the log book entries and the 337's are what constitute the aircraft records.

Those -3's are more for the installer and they communicate the condition of the part before it was installed. After that....no mass. :dunno: In fact, those -3's aren't even required for installation of non-life limited parts.;)

but, I too save everything....:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
As stated there is no requirement to keep them but you can never have too much documentation or proof and keeping them is not exactly a burden. What really irks me however are the owners and mechanics that insist on stapling every 8130 tag to a logbook page. :mad2:
 
Ron Levy said:
In assisting a client who was facing an FAA review of his airplane's maintenance records as part of a 709 ride, the 8130-3's saved the day in determining the applicability of some AD's without disassembling some of the engine compartment to be able to see the data tags on some engine accessories. So, I suggest hanging on to everything.
Click to expand...

Had the return to service entries been done correctly the -3 would have not been needed.
 
Tom-D said:
Had the return to service entries been done correctly the -3 would have not been needed.
Click to expand...
You put the date of overhaul on a turbocharger that is installed on an exchange basis in the log entry hanging it on the engine? You're pretty amazing.
 
Ron Levy said:
You put the date of overhaul on a turbocharger that is installed on an exchange basis in the log entry hanging it on the engine? You're pretty amazing.
Click to expand...

Removed turbocharger S/N XXX and replaced with S/N xxxx overhauled by XXXX on W/O xxxxx. ran engine yada yada.. and so fourth

All the info you would ever need for AD research
 
Last edited:
You could throw some of that stuff away after a year or when the part is replaced per the FARs
 
Tom-D said:
Removed turbocharger S/N XXX and replaced with S/N xxxx overhauled by XXXX on W/O xxxxx. ran engine yada yada.. and so fourth

All the info you would ever need for AD research
Click to expand...
You are, in my experience, unique in your inclusion of the overhaul date and overhaul shop name in such entries, but you forgot the manufacturer's name and part number which I always see, and without which I believe the entry is incomplete, especially if you are researching an AD. In the particular case, there were turbochargers made by two different manufacturers which could be used (and in fact, there were different ones on the two engines), and the AD applied only to one, so your log entry would be insufficient to research the issue.
 
Last edited:
yetti said:
You could throw some of that stuff away after a year or when the part is replaced per the FARs
Click to expand...
You could, but the odds are it will come back to haunt you eventually. The more complete the records, the better things will go down the line even if you meet the letter of the FAA's regulations.
 
Back when I was dumb (wealthy enough) to afford certified planes, I kept EVERY yellow tag I got... Considering how much extra I had to pay to get the " blessing".. I just stapled them to the log book pages.....

In hindsite, I admit I got screwed several times from the insane prices and never got kissed...:no::no:.....:mad:

Only experimental from here on out....:yes:
 
Ron Levy said:
You could, but the odds are it will come back to haunt you eventually. The more complete the records, the better things will go down the line even if you meet the letter of the FAA's regulations.
Click to expand...

You can have complete records with out carrying a trunk full of useless card board.

remember the FAA can not require you to produce any maintenance records that are over 2 years old. Simply because they only require you to keep them 2 years.
 
Ron Levy said:
You are, in my experience, unique in your inclusion of the overhaul date and overhaul shop name in such entries, but you forgot the manufacturer's name and part number which I always see, and without which I believe the entry is incomplete, especially if you are researching an AD. In the particular case, there were turbochargers made by two different manufacturers which could be used (and in fact, there were different ones on the two engines), and the AD applied only to one, so your log entry would be insufficient to research the issue.
Click to expand...

Have you forgot what's on the W/O?
 
Ron Levy said:
You are, in my experience, unique in your inclusion of the overhaul date and overhaul shop name in such entries,
Click to expand...

Where did I state the date?

Remember I must research AD at every Annual, So. I know what makes it easy.

Proper AD research is done when the AD compliance is completed correctly. and the easiest way is to have a separate record for that purpose. such as ADlog.

Even the FAA does not argue with that system.
 
Ron Levy said:
You put the date of overhaul on a turbocharger that is installed on an exchange basis in the log entry hanging it on the engine? You're pretty amazing.
Click to expand...

so....when would having the turbo OH'd vs. repaired matter? only that it was inspected, installed, and returned to service by a licensed mechanic.:dunno:

since when does a repair station or a shop determine airworthiness? even with a kosher -3, although not required, the mechanic makes that determination prior to the install.:nono:
 
Last edited:
8130-3s for hoses, light bulbs, screws, nuts, bolts etc get filed in the trash.

Components such as propellers, magnetos, flight instruments, transponders, encoders, crankshafts, camshafts, vacuum pumps (think major components) are kept in the records at least until the unit is replaced, destroyed or sent out for repair again to someone else. These are also documented using similar statement as below.

For those major components that are not serialized and do not come with an 8130-3 or yellow tag which I could see being difficult to research should an AD come out get mentioned in my log entries by Manufacturer, part # and then lot #. Billing invoices, shipping tickets and C of C (certificates of conformance) are kept also but if they get lost you should still have enough data to determine AD applicability.

Such as, Replaced Throttle cable with new McFarlane Aviation part# 1234-14 lot # 445523."

I also verify the part # serial # or lot # match on any associated documents as they do sometimes contain errors.
 
Last edited:
Ron Levy said:
You are, in my experience, unique in your inclusion of the overhaul date and overhaul shop name in such entries, but you forgot the manufacturer's name and part number which I always see, and without which I believe the entry is incomplete, especially if you are researching an AD. In the particular case, there were turbochargers made by two different manufacturers which could be used (and in fact, there were different ones on the two engines), and the AD applied only to one, so your log entry would be insufficient to research the issue.
Click to expand...

For those I go a step farther. Replaced part name part # serial # --- Overhauled, Repaired, Tested, Inspected ----by shop name, CRS # on w/o#. Reference 8130-3, CofC etc tracking #XXXXX dated xxxx.

 
Thanks for all the great feedback. I'm going to use a separate zipper folder and just toss them in there to keep them. I also didn't understand the relation between STC and 337s until reading that link that Yetti posted.

So I went through and matched each STC with it's respective 337, one is the original 180 conversion from the 80s. It's a challenge to read and looks like it was washed a few times in acid. I also couldn't find the one for the STOL kit but I think I know where that is in the hangar... guess I should put that in the records. Everything else 'seems' to be there, next annual will get a report from the FAA to double check and make sure the STCs for the avionics upgrade and this interior upgrade get through and registered.
 
OkieAviator said:
Thanks for all the great feedback. I'm going to use a separate zipper folder and just toss them in there to keep them. I also didn't understand the relation between STC and 337s until reading that link that Yetti posted.

So I went through and matched each STC with it's respective 337, one is the original 180 conversion from the 80s. It's a challenge to read and looks like it was washed a few times in acid. I also couldn't find the one for the STOL kit but I think I know where that is in the hangar... guess I should put that in the records. Everything else 'seems' to be there, next annual will get a report from the FAA to double check and make sure the STCs for the avionics upgrade and this interior upgrade get through and registered.
Click to expand...

Good job. If I were buying your plane and you presented me with a couple of nice notebooks with everything organized, I'd be impressed. If you pointed at a man purse satchel and said everything is in there and somewhere in the hangar, I'd be very uneasy about dealing with you.
 
OkieAviator said:
Thanks for all the great feedback. I'm going to use a separate zipper folder and just toss them in there to keep them. I also didn't understand the relation between STC and 337s until reading that link that Yetti posted.

So I went through and matched each STC with it's respective 337, one is the original 180 conversion from the 80s. It's a challenge to read and looks like it was washed a few times in acid. I also couldn't find the one for the STOL kit but I think I know where that is in the hangar... guess I should put that in the records. Everything else 'seems' to be there, next annual will get a report from the FAA to double check and make sure the STCs for the avionics upgrade and this interior upgrade get through and registered.
Click to expand...

Each STC cover page has a limitations section. Should read some of them. They usually list required flight manual supplements in there. That's a hint of what you should find in your airplane.
 
bnt83 said:
Each STC cover page has a limitations section. Should read some of them. They usually list required flight manual supplements in there. That's a hint of what you should find in your airplane.
Click to expand...

Ahh yes, that's another folder I have. Currently not in the plane but once the interior gets done I will place it somewhere. Not sure because some of these supplements like the GTN 650 is about 200 pages.
 
OkieAviator said:
Ahh yes, that's another folder I have. Currently not in the plane but once the interior gets done I will place it somewhere. Not sure because some of these supplements like the GTN 650 is about 200 pages.
Click to expand...

The GTN I think has a ~200 Instructions for Continued Airworthiness or Operators manual or other. But the AFMS won't be that long. The typical AFMS for TCAS, WAAS/LPV, ADS-B, etc etc on a Falcon 900 are under ~50 pages total.
 
OkieAviator said:
Thanks for all the great feedback. I'm going to use a separate zipper folder and just toss them in there to keep them. I also didn't understand the relation between STC and 337s until reading that link that Yetti posted.

So I went through and matched each STC with it's respective 337, one is the original 180 conversion from the 80s. It's a challenge to read and looks like it was washed a few times in acid. I also couldn't find the one for the STOL kit but I think I know where that is in the hangar... guess I should put that in the records. Everything else 'seems' to be there, next annual will get a report from the FAA to double check and make sure the STCs for the avionics upgrade and this interior upgrade get through and registered.
Click to expand...
Good for you. You do that, and anyone (buyer, FAA, whoever) that looks at them will be positively impressed, and that can go a long way towards completing the sale or making the FAA go away happy and sooner. It can also save you money on your annual when the inspector doesn't have to do a ton of research for AD compliance.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good for you. You do that, and anyone (buyer, FAA, whoever) that looks at them will be positively impressed, and that can go a long way towards completing the sale or making the FAA go away happy and sooner. It can also save you money on your annual when the inspector doesn't have to do a ton of research for AD compliance.
Click to expand...

In general I'm freakishly organized. I blame my time in the military, or my parents... not sure but when things are unorganized I get extremely annoyed. I started reading the STCs more closely and the one that I thought was just for Gap seals was also for the leading edge Cuff, AKA STOL Kit. So I'm good on those, now will make sure I have the correct supplemental information on the plane. I meant to do that this afternoon but got side tracked and flew for a few hours.
 
Ron Levy said:
When the AD applies only to units overhauled or manufactured during a certain date range.
Click to expand...

Those ADs have a list of serial numbers. You can see this on several hundred ADs Out there.

If it was overhauled, it will have a WO number by who did it.
When that info is in the return to service entry there is no sense in keeping the -3 and it will never get thrown away, separated, or confused with any other item.
 
How does any one know if the 8030-3 card you are reading applies to the unit installed?
 
Ron Levy said:
You put the date of overhaul on a turbocharger that is installed on an exchange basis in the log entry hanging it on the engine? You're pretty amazing.
Click to expand...

Not really; I'm not a real paperwork maven but overhaul dates, times in service, serial ... you betcha.

Jim
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmm..

What about the latest Lycoming AD on the intake valves...... You replace them with new ones.. BUT.. the new ones do NOT have serial numbers printed on them...:no::no::no::no::no:
Click to expand...

This I know is true, I learned about it the hard way. Date code only.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmm..

What about the latest Lycoming AD on the intake valves...... You replace them with new ones.. BUT.. the new ones do NOT have serial numbers printed on them...:no::no::no::no::no:
Click to expand...

Well first of all - do new valves come with 8130 tags? Because there is certainly no requirement for that but even if they do you are now at the heart of this discussion which reveals that the 8130 tags are for the benefit of the installer and not so much for the purpose of the owner's record keeping. A logbook entry stating that the proper valves have been installed is the real documentation.
 
Tom-D said:
Those ADs have a list of serial numbers. You can see this on several hundred ADs Out there.
Click to expand...
If the AD says "manufactured or overhauled" in a certain date range, the s/n doesn't help on overhauled units since there's no telling from FAA records when any particular s/n was overhauled.

If it was overhauled, it will have a WO number by who did it.
Click to expand...
Doesn't help much if the overhauler purges files after a year or so, as most do.
 
Ron Levy said:
If the AD says "manufactured or overhauled" in a certain date range, the s/n doesn't help on overhauled units since there's no telling from FAA records when any particular s/n was overhauled.

Doesn't help much if the overhauler purges files after a year or so, as most do.
Click to expand...

how about posting the AD number in question....most all ADs will list the affected SNs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top