Engine Run Ups

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evapilotaz

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I was wondering how often to do run ups. Is it every time before take off.
So for Example. I did the run up engine checks before the first take off and everything checks normal. So I come in for a full stop landing and Park the airplane for an a short period of time. Lets say 30 minutes. Should I do a run up again just before take off in this situation. Should I do run ups every time before takeoff?
 
evapilotaz said:
I was wondering how often to do run ups. Is it every time before take off.
So for Example. I did the run up engine checks before the first take off and everything checks normal. So I come in for a full stop landing and Park the airplane for an a short period of time. Lets say 30 minutes. Should I do a run up again just before take off in this situation. Should I do run ups every time before takeoff?
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Why wouldn't you? A ton of really bad things can happen between now and then.
 
Do you own the plane by yourself and only you fly it? If so I often do 'abbreviated' run ups, that may be a mag check at lower power during taxi out.

I may check a bit on taxi in too. Not to discount the preflight checks or run ups, but if I'm the only one flying the plane I feel I know it better.

On a related note, I gave the plane a wash & wax the other week. While there I looked it over in more detail. I may also do the same while hanging out in the hangar. That's not to mean a bird didn't decide to build a nest in the last 4 hours(Spring time).

The worst mag check I saw in a long time was two months ago in another guy's plane. He flys around rich much of the time, unless rather high(0360 engine). We were able to 'burn it off' to get things normal.
 
sourdough44 said:
He flys around rich much of the time, unless rather high(0360 engine). We were able to 'burn it off' to get things normal.
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That's a bad habit. But nobody ever told me to lean on the ground or anywhere else until years after my lessons. Never have that problem now.

In much less time than it takes to teach one how to 'burn' off the fouling they could have explained leaning on the ground and for economy in the air...
 
Always sump the fuel after adding any. Even if you just had the engine off for 5 minutes.

A quick mag check and idle check prior to takeoff can prevent a whole boatload of headaches. Above 3000 DA, use it to check mixture for takeoff.

A full run-up? If there is even the slightest doubt. As well as if the engine isn't quite warm yet; it will help warm it.

In general, being in a hurry for takeoff is not a good thing. It's just too easy to misconfigure or do something silly.
 
I rent airplanes from a FBO. We never covered this during my Recent flight review and I forgot to ask the CFI. I cannot remember if I was doing run ups before every take off prior to my Flight review 10 years ago.

Thanks.
 
I stopped for awhile but started again. Going through the whole run up procedure reminds me to do a bunch of important things.
 
Depends on how long I'm stopped. Part of the reason for doing a run up is also to get the engine and oil warm and circulating. If I'm just stopping to get gas and go pee, no. If I've stopped for an hour or two, I'll do an abbreviated run up and maybe cycle the prop once. Any longer and I'll do the full deal.
 
The first time you don't do a mag check, you will lose a mag. It's a rule. And losing it on takeoff is a dead man's move.
 
If you do an extra run up what are you hurting? Nothing you say? Great. If you miss something that you might have caught at a run up could you regret it?
The truth of the matter is that you probably don't need to do a full run up every time you head out to the runway but what can it hurt to do a mag check and maybe insure the carb heat works. A control check is something that should be done everytime. Ask the guys who took off with control locks in place.....oh wait, you can't do that because they're no longer with us.

Just my opinion and worth every cent you paid.


Frank
 
I was riding with an elderly relative(her side) a year ago in his new Chrysler 300. We were on a divided Hwy in AR, speed limit 65 or so. He was driving a jerky 50 MPH. He said it was right out of the owner's manual, 'the 1st 500 miles not over 50 and vary the speed'. He followed that to the letter. I don't think it helped a whole lot, in other areas anyway. He soon had airbag and other lights on for no apparent reason.

While with him I kept scanning the rear view to avoid getting rear ended.

Nothing wrong with common sense sprinkled in, somewhat related to the topic.
 
Why wouldn't you? It is an easy thing to check, and IMO, the more confident you can be that everything is working before you get in the air the better. Things can break at any time. While doing my training, we were doing stop and goes and just after the full stop, we throttled up to take off and the engine was surging quite bad. We aborted the take off and did a mag check. Turns out we lost a mag in that short time.
 
CTLSi said:
The first time you don't do a mag check, you will lose a mag. It's a rule. And losing it on takeoff is a dead man's move.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't deliberately take off on a bad or dead mag, but I have inadvertently forgot to return the key back to "both" on a couple of occasions after a mag check. Plane flew okay. I lost a bit of power, and my EGT's went through the roof. First time it happened I started to turn back for landing, but I figured the problem out before I completed my turn.
 
Anytime the engine has been shut down, I do a full run up. If I'm just taxiing back to take off again, I generally don't, unless I have reason to suspect a problem.
 
I check mags, flight controls, and most systems before every takeoff regardless of if I own the airplane or someone else. I once watched someone do a halfass control check on a privately owned certified airplane and I decided to let it slide. I mean, how often do the flight controls on a 172 really fail? That nearly bit us in the ass on landing when the elevator didn't have it's full authority and also jammed in what little flare was possible. We got damn lucky we didn't make a smoking hole in the runway.

Attitude indicator (or maybe it was the DG) was recently replaced. When I crawled under the panel I saw they routed a vacuum line through the path of the yoke's travel that both limited the travel and caused it to jam up. Needless to say I wasn't too pleased when I talked to the A&P that did it.

Don't skip **** that matters, regardless of if it's a rental or certified or experimental and regardless of whether or not it was fine 30 minutes ago.
 
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Which brings another thing to watch for...post annual and post engine work risks. Mechanics are human and they make mistakes despite the tight procedures they are required to follow...

Triple check everything after your annuals and any other work done in the shop...
 
Every time prior to first takeoff after starting up.
I like having a consistent flow, helps ensure my head is in the game.
 
I learned about runups as a Student Pilot. Another student had an equipment problem on their long XC, and the FBO owner [also an A&P] left to run exchange something on the AOG 172. He ran around gathering pieces and tools, preflighted and gassed up the Bonanza and taxied rapidly to the hold short line where he did a complete runup and control check before blasting off.

That made an impression. I do a runup between engine start and takeoff, every time.
 
I fly for a living and flew from gravel/unimproved/off airport for years. I only did a run up on an approved pad, either concrete or plywood, and without passengers on board.

I now live and fly in the lower 48 and still don't do a run up with passengers onboard. That is done during pre-flight and helps get the temps up to normal.

If the oil is not up to temperature, I increase RPMs until the oil is in the green telling the crew and passengers what I am doing.

For pilots that don't fly for a living, nothing is wrong with doing a run up before each leg. Just be sure to explain to the passengers what you are doing. The more you talk and explain to your passengers, the more impressed they will be.
 
Zeldman said:
I fly for a living and flew from gravel/unimproved/off airport for years. I only did a run up on an approved pad, either concrete or plywood, and without passengers on board.

I now live and fly in the lower 48 and still don't do a run up with passengers onboard. That is done during pre-flight and helps get the temps up to normal.

If the oil is not up to temperature, I increase RPMs until the oil is in the green telling the crew and passengers what I am doing.

For pilots that don't fly for a living, nothing is wrong with doing a run up before each leg. Just be sure to explain to the passengers what you are doing. The more you talk and explain to your passengers, the more impressed they will be.
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That sounds inconvenient. Do you shut the engine down before boarding passengers?
 
Back in the day it was called a "daily flight check" or something along those lines, I would do one for the first flight of the day, if something seemed odd, or if I left the plane for a long time.

For sumping same deal, first flight of the day.

Sumping RIGHT after a flight or fueling is a waste, as the fuel doesn't have time to settle for a accurate sump.

Of course I also verify takeoff power, airspeed alive and panel clear on my takeoff run.

We wouldn't move the plane or idle above around 1k until oil temp hit 200f

Loading pax with the prop turning is only OK, if you have a good ground crew to Marshall the folks and prevent a dodo bird from walking into the prop.
 
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Thanks for the replies. I always Do the before and after start check lists "C172" but If I just landed the airplane and it sat for a short period (hour or less) of time, I don't do a run up. Base on your comments I will change my ways.
 
Yes always a run up. When I landed in Nebraska a few years ago the engine seemed fine.

Half hour fuel stop. Run up. A plug wire had fallen completely off a cylinder on the way in or during the landing. Only showed up on the mag check for that mag. Engine started and taxied fine as it SHOULD with redundant systems.

You don't skip safety and redundant system checks. That's just stupid.
 
Jay Honeck said:
You want the oil at 200 degrees before departure?
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No, he wants 200*F before he even moves the plane.

I was taught:

1.) Oil in the green, good to go!
2.) Oil still below the green when you take the runway? Hold the brakes as if doing a short field and slowly (5-6 seconds) bring engine up to full power. If it runs smoothly and doesn't stumble, good to go!
 
Bill Jennings said:
No, he wants 200*F before he even moves the plane.

I was taught:

1.) Oil in the green, good to go!
2.) Oil still below the green when you take the runway? Hold the brakes as if doing a short field and slowly (5-6 seconds) bring engine up to full power. If it runs smoothly and doesn't stumble, good to go!
Click to expand...
Um, if my oil hits 200 degrees, I'm landing, cuz something is wrong. Even in South Texas heat, our oil never exceeds 190 degrees.
 
They say you want to occasionally get it up to above 212 degF to ensure any moisture boils out.

After a climb (when it's 115 deg OAT), 220 is not unusual for me.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Um, if my oil hits 200 degrees, I'm landing, cuz something is wrong. Even in South Texas heat, our oil never exceeds 190 degrees.
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You're overcooling it, then. Install a thermostat in your oil cooler. Cooler is not necessarily better. It makes your piston clearances larger, your oil more viscous, and in this case, it prevents the oil from purging water, which it collects from normal combustion.
 
MAKG1 said:
You're overcooling it, then. Install a thermostat in your oil cooler. Cooler is not necessarily better. It makes your piston clearances larger, your oil more viscous, and in this case, it prevents the oil from purging water, which it collects from normal combustion.
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If it's 190 at the sensor, it's way more than that at the heat source. The rule of thumb for cold weather ops in Wisconsin was if it indicated 180, the oil was over 212, which was enough to "boil off" the water...

...Which would then go out the breather tube...

...into my air oil seperator...

...to either freeze solid, or be fed back into the crankcase. <bang head here>. :)

In any event, 200 on the ground, at idle, would be pretty hot.
 
If you waited for my Flybaby oil to hit 200, or 180, or 160 before takeoff you'd never takeoff. Same for many airplanes here in the winter.
 
Bill Jennings said:
No, he wants 200*F before he even moves the plane.

I was taught:

1.) Oil in the green, good to go!
2.) Oil still below the green when you take the runway? Hold the brakes as if doing a short field and slowly (5-6 seconds) bring engine up to full power. If it runs smoothly and doesn't stumble, good to go!
Click to expand...

No, I'd still taxi and do all my other stuff, just wouldn't do anything much over 1k rpm till my oil was up to temp

And as far as temp goes, it all depends on the plane, this was a 206 with a 550.

My personal plane is different, the fly baby is different etc.

I never use "in the green". The planes I have flown are very predictable, we have engine trends cards we fill out in cruse, it's best to know the numbers the plane likes to operate at, that way you can catch problems before they go "out of the green".


Jay Honeck said:
....

...Which would then go out the breather tube...

...into my air oil seperator...

...to either freeze solid, or be fed back into the crankcase. <bang head here>. :)

.
Click to expand...

Jay, you might want to drill some holes in that tube.

Read here.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78588

baron1.jpg
 
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Originally Posted by Zeldman
I now live and fly in the lower 48 and still don't do a run up with passengers onboard. That is done during pre-flight and helps get the temps up to normal.

If the oil is not up to temperature, I increase RPMs until the oil is in the green telling the crew and passengers what I am doing.
Click to expand...



Sac Arrow said:
That sounds inconvenient. Do you shut the engine down before boarding passengers?
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Ok, fair enough. Looks like I wasn't very clear in my explanation.

In the lower 48 I fly an air ambulance. When the call comes in for a flight, I go to the airport. I pull the plane, check fuel and oil and add if needed, do the pre-flight. I do the company cockpit check, then check if the needed medical equipment is in the plane. (usually is unless I don't check) Then I start the engines, taxi to the usual run up area, increase the RPMs, check the left engine, then right engine, then cycle the props. If the oil temps are not in the green, I keep the RPMs up until the temps are good. Then I taxi to the terminal to wait on the ambulance. This may take 15 minutes up to 2 hours, or more. Usually it is about 45 minutes, depending on patient needs. After we load the patient, I start the engines. If the oil temps have cooled off, I go back to the run up area and increase the RPMs and explain to the med crew to what I am doing.

Doing mag checks and cycling the props can have a distrubing effect on people that don't fly on small planes. For this reason we don't do mag checks or cycle the props with passengers. We do mag checks before the passengers even get to the airport. If there is a problem then we can get it fixed or trade planes before the patient or passengers arrive.

I have loaded or off loaded medical people (never a patient) with the right engine running, usually due to a last second med crew change, or the med crew forgot something, but that is by far not the norm.

The planes fly everday, usually multiple trips in a 24 hour period. We have crack mechanics that take care of the planes. Never has one refused to go on a test flight with me. And I know that after they work on it and are ready to put it back online that it is repaired and airworthy.

I hope this clears it up a little.
 
James331 said:
No, I'd still taxi and do all my other stuff, just wouldn't do anything much over 1k rpm till my oil was up to temp

And as far as temp goes, it all depends on the plane, this was a 206 with a 550.

My personal plane is different, the fly baby is different etc.

I never use "in the green". The planes I have flown are very predictable, we have engine trends cards we fill out in cruse, it's best to know the numbers the plane likes to operate at, that way you can catch problems before they go "out of the green".




Jay, you might want to drill some holes in that tube.

Read here.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78588

baron1.jpg
Click to expand...
That plane is long gone to a new caretaker...
:)
 
evapilotaz said:
I was wondering how often to do run ups. Is it every time before take off.
So for Example. I did the run up engine checks before the first take off and everything checks normal. So I come in for a full stop landing and Park the airplane for an a short period of time. Lets say 30 minutes. Should I do a run up again just before take off in this situation. Should I do run ups every time before takeoff?
Click to expand...


Buzz Landry taught me to not only run it up before take off, but mag-check it before you shut down. Besides, it takes what, thirty seconds?

As he put it "you don't want to fly or put a sick horse to bed."

Do a run up and mag check at the end of the day. If there's a problem, you know it and get it fixed instead of finding out when you're ready to fly again.:)
 
dans2992 said:
They say you want to occasionally get it up to above 212 degF to ensure any moisture boils out.

After a climb (when it's 115 deg OAT), 220 is not unusual for me.
Click to expand...


Only if you fly at sea level, water boils out at lower temps as you climb.
 
Sumping the tanks 5 minutes after fueling is likely to discover NOTHING even if they fillled your tanks with a high concentration of water. It takes quite a while for the water to settle out.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Um, if my oil hits 200 degrees, I'm landing, cuz something is wrong. Even in South Texas heat, our oil never exceeds 190 degrees.
Click to expand...

You need your oil to get hot enough to boil off the moisture. Most engines are spec'd for oil temps up to 240. If you're flying around at 180, you've either got the gauge in a cold section of the engine or you're operating your aircraft contrary to it's long term health.
 
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