Engine Preheating.

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pnancoz

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I'm tied down on a ramp with no electric service. What do others use to preheat their engines when needed?
 
FBO service

Red Dragon preheater (I used a motorcycle battery rather than the much heavier car battery)

(when I was based at KBED)
 
Bob Noel said:
FBO service

Red Dragon preheater (I used a motorcycle battery rather than the much heavier car battery)

(when I was based at KBED)
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From what I can see, the Red Dragon is no longer on the market.
 
I used to use a weed burner, some 3" metal ducting and a 20 pound tank that I kept in a large rubbermaid at the tie down. Worked and didn't kill me or burn the airplane down yet. Cue the critics of propane preheating.....
 
I spent two years running a generator (or two) to power my engine heaters when I was tied down with no electric service. It's relatively easy to build a heater out of an electric space heater, insulated dryer hose and aluminum tape...
 
pnancoz said:
I'm tied down on a ramp with no electric service. What do others use to preheat their engines when needed?
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In what temperatures? What I do in 20* is different than -40*. My strong preference is a Reiff Turbo XP system and a 1000w generator. If you preheat with fire you need to stand fire watch throughout the process. Not fun when it gets really cold.
 
pnancoz said:
I'm tied down on a ramp with no electric service. What do others use to preheat their engines when needed?
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There are several preheaters that are self contained.
 
Stewartb said:
In what temperatures? What I do in 20* is different than -40*. My strong preference is a Reiff Turbo XP system and a 1000w generator. If you preheat with fire you need to stand fire watch throughout the process. Not fun when it gets really cold.
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+1 on the Reiff Turbo XP, had that installed last year...
 
Last time I was on a cold, Alaskan ramp -- a couple of years ago -- all of the open flames had been replaced by Tanis/Reiff and Honda generators. A Red Dragon doesn't obviate the need for electricity, though they'll work with a car battery.
 
Phillip (of Switchbox fame) did a write-up on a Tanis or Reiff with 12v car battery and the switchbox when he was parked with no nearby power. Battery and switchbox in a heavy-duty locked case, chained to the airplane. He'd call the switchbox to turn on battery power to the engine heater a few hours before flying.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Last time I was on a cold, Alaskan ramp -- a couple of years ago -- all of the open flames had been replaced by Tanis/Reiff and Honda generators. A Red Dragon doesn't obviate the need for electricity, though they'll work with a car battery.
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Any flame type heater will heat cylinders quickly and oil slowwwly. Very, very few guys who use Red Dragons use them for long enough to loosen cold oil. The cylinders will fire right off, though. And then you watch the oil pressure needle sit on zero. With a generator we can start the preheating in the dark and go away for a few hours with no worry about starting the plane on fire. I've done it that way for years. I have combustion heaters, too. Gotta carry a stove for survival gear so I add a heat transfer plenum just in case. My fav is an adapted ammo can.
 
Stewartb said:
Any flame type heater will heat cylinders quickly and oil slowwwly. Very, very few guys who use Red Dragons use them for long enough to loosen cold oil. The cylinders will fire right off, though. And then you watch the oil pressure needle sit on zero. With a generator we can start the preheating in the dark and go away for a few hours with no worry about starting the plane on fire. I've done it that way for years. I have combustion heaters, too. Gotta carry a stove for survival gear so I add a heat transfer plenum just in case. My fav is an adapted ammo can.
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From everything I read, oil temp isn't the issue if you're using a multi-viscosity oil. It's the relative expansion of the engine's moving components that harms the engine.
 
Stick a quart of XC 20-50 in your freezer for a day and see how well it pours.

Engine manufacturers warn about lagging oil pressure after cold starts. I don't like to see my prop spinning and the oil pressure needle parked on the peg.

The "rub" (pardon the pun) is that thick oil slows the starter rotation. Cold cylinders need rotation speed to fire. Add a little hot air and the cylinders will fire easily at slow rotation speed before the oil is ready to circulate. Conversely you can heat oil and have a fast spin rate and have the cylinders balk and frost the plugs. The best solution is total engine preheat. Lacking that the best idea is added time for less effective heaters to do the job.
 
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Stewartb said:
Stick a quart of XC 20-50 in your freezer for a day and see how well it pours.

Engine manufacturers warn about lagging oil pressure after cold starts. I don't like to see my prop spinning and the oil pressure needle parked on the peg.
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^^^This

Try pouring some 5-30 automotive oil on a day that is just barely below freezing and see how thick it is. An electric engine oil pan heater is advisable if you're in a winter climate, unless you always store in a heated hangar. Airplane engines are expensive...
 
GRG55 said:
^^^This

Try pouring some 5-30 automotive oil on a day that is just barely below freezing and see how thick it is. An electric engine oil pan heater is advisable if you're in a winter climate, unless you always store in a heated hangar. Airplane engines are expensive...
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Yeah ok. Right. Anyway, irrelevant to me since I have a both cylinder and sump heaters.
 
What State, how cold? Do you have a engine heater installed on the plane?

I have corded to a distant plug-in, done the generator thing. You can tow the plane too. My Son has a powerful portable battery pack, besides jump starting it can charge devices. Maybe such a device can power an engine heater?
Anywhere below 45 or so I think about preheat, may not be a full 12 hours, depending.
 
GRG55 said:
^^^This

Try pouring some 5-30 automotive oil on a day that is just barely below freezing and see how thick it is. An electric engine oil pan heater is advisable if you're in a winter climate, unless you always store in a heated hangar. Airplane engines are expensive...
Click to expand...
Trust me, anyone who keeps a plane outside in Canada or the northern U.S. and flies in the winter has seen oil pour at 0c, -10c, and probably -20c. We have to add a quart every few hours in the winter, just like we do in the summer, and the storage box behind my tie-down spot is not heated.

In any case, an oil-sump heater isn't a bad idea; it's just that it's the least important part of heating an engine (and potentially harmful if it's the only part you're heating, because it will cause moisture to evaporate up into an otherwise cooler engine, where it might condense). The order of priority for heating is cylinders, crankcase, oil. (Of course, no reason not to do all three.)

Or, if you want a shorter version, heat from the top down, not the bottom up.
 
When I was on tie down at New Castle Airport (KILG) I ran 300 + feet of heavy duty extension cord to plug in my plane, what a PITA! Luckily it only crossed the gated private ramp access and could safely run along behind the line of tie downs. When I tired of running extension cords I finally bought a small generator and plugged in the plane early in the morning and went to grab breakfast while it heated cylinder bands and oil sump. I finally found hangar space at another airport and moved the plane. I have been in a hangar ever since. I also use the Switchbox to text the unit for on and off prior to flight, comfortably from home before crawling into bed. I don't miss those ramp days.
 
David Megginson said:
Trust me, anyone who keeps a plane outside in Canada or the northern U.S. and flies in the winter has seen oil pour at 0c, -10c, and probably -20c. We have to add a quart every few hours in the winter, just like we do in the summer, and the storage box behind my tie-down spot is not heated.

In any case, an oil-sump heater isn't a bad idea; it's just that it's the least important part of heating an engine (and potentially harmful if it's the only part you're heating, because it will cause moisture to evaporate up into an otherwise cooler engine, where it might condense). The order of priority for heating is cylinders, crankcase, oil. (Of course, no reason not to do all three.)

Or, if you want a shorter version, heat from the top down, not the bottom up.
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Agreed. Multiviscosity oil makes heating the oil for startup much less of an issue relative to engine damage.
 
steingar said:
When I was tied down outside I'd call the FBO before driving to the airport and asked them to tow my airplane into one of the maintenance hangars to heat it up.
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That's the best choice if it's available (and affordable) at your airport, because it warms up your gyros, battery, cranks, etc as well as the engine, reducing wear throughout the plane. It's not an option for many of us, unfortunately.
 
David Megginson said:
That's the best choice if it's available (and affordable) at your airport, because it warms up your gyros, battery, cranks, etc as well as the engine, reducing wear throughout the plane. It's not an option for many of us, unfortunately.
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Not many airports that don't have a heated maintenance hangar. While it can be expensive, it is the best way to warm up your aircraft, especially if you're worried about frost or snow. Even if they ask for twenty bucks to do it, how often are you going to fly in the middle of the winter? I find myself going up no more than once or twice a month if that. Just hard to get VFR weather and time off to line up. And extra twenty bucks a month just doesn't register when talking about airplanes.
 
Sounds like a fantasy to me. If I could find a mechanic who had space and time to move a plane I'd expect the bill to be several hundred dollars. Do that twice or buy your own little Honda generator? Easy decision. And some of us fly to places where there aren't people or facilities around.
 
Stewartb said:
Sounds like a fantasy to me. If I could find a mechanic who had space and time to move a plane I'd expect the bill to be several hundred dollars. Do that twice or buy your own little Honda generator? Easy decision. And some of us fly to places where there aren't people or facilities around.
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Many airports in colder areas offer that as a line service. I think I used to pay CAD $50 for an overnight preheat 15 years ago at CYOW (Ottawa, ON), including having the plane towed in by the line guy. I don't know what it costs now, but airports like CYND (Gatineau, QC) and CYGK (Kingston, ON) have big, shared hangars that you can have your plane towed into, and even monthly fees you can pay. Unfortunately, my current home airport has only the maintenance hangar, and it's usually packed with the aircraft they're working on.
 
murphey said:
Phillip (of Switchbox fame) did a write-up on a Tanis or Reiff with 12v car battery and the switchbox when he was parked with no nearby power. Battery and switchbox in a heavy-duty locked case, chained to the airplane. He'd call the switchbox to turn on battery power to the engine heater a few hours before flying.
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Hmmm... a typical car battery is 50 amp-hours or 12 X 50 = 600 watt-hours. A Reiff/Tanis is about 500 watts. So allowing for a less-than-100% 12V to 120V conversion efficiency, the battery will run the system only for one hour. It seems the numbers don't add up. Can you post or provide a link to Phillip's write up?
 
flyingbrit said:
Hmmm... a typical car battery is 50 amp-hours or 12 X 50 = 600 watt-hours. A Reiff/Tanis is about 500 watts. So allowing for a less-than-100% 12V to 120V conversion efficiency, the battery will run the system only for one hour. It seems the numbers don't add up. Can you post or provide a link to Phillip's write up?
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Wish I could....I just remember reading it a few years ago. Might have been more than 1 battery, I dunno. I'm in a hangar with power. I use the Reiff hot strip on the oil pan, which is only 200W.
 
steingar said:
Not many airports that don't have a heated maintenance hangar. While it can be expensive, it is the best way to warm up your aircraft, especially if you're worried about frost or snow. Even if they ask for twenty bucks to do it, how often are you going to fly in the middle of the winter? I find myself going up no more than once or twice a month if that. Just hard to get VFR weather and time off to line up. And extra twenty bucks a month just doesn't register when talking about airplanes.
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It's about CAD $400 extra a month to have access to a heated hangar at the airport across the river from me. It might be different at a little country airport, but I don't live in the a little country town.

At a fancy FBO at a major airport, having your airplane pulled into a heated hangar can easily top $100/night (maybe $200+ for a twin, because twins always get fleeced).

So is it a nice-to-have? Sure. Have I done it before a big family trip in the winter? Yes. Is it something I'd do every week before flying in the winter? No.
 
steingar said:
Did it a couple years ago during a winter trip. It was twenty bucks or so.
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You were lucky. Sometimes you'll find a friendly mechanic with a half-empty maintenance hangar who'll pull you in practically for free overnight. But don't count on that kind of luck most of the time.
 
David Megginson said:
It's about CAD $400 extra a month to have access to a heated hangar at the airport across the river from me. It might be different at a little country airport, but I don't live in the a little country town.

At a fancy FBO at a major airport, having your airplane pulled into a heated hangar can easily top $100/night (maybe $200+ for a twin, because twins always get fleeced).

So is it a nice-to-have? Sure. Have I done it before a big family trip in the winter? Yes. Is it something I'd do every week before flying in the winter? No.
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I used to have mine pulled in for about an hour. That was enough to get the engine up to operating temperature and and melt any frozen hydrogen hydroxide.
 
Had a Honda sound shield portable generator. Also had a propane heater in a tool box.
 
Hell if you arent close to residential areas early in the day good old harbor freight has a generator big enough for a preheater for $130...
 
That generator is super hard to start in cold weather in my experience. Don’t know if it is because it is two stroke or just crappy. Kinda made me feel like I needed a pre-heater for my generator for my pre-heater.
But I did use it to run a small battery charger and space heater for the cabin while the weed burner was heating the engine.
 
Even ether doesn't always help a generator made from bargain basement parts. I also think that the spark plug may end up getting frosted over sometimes, at which point it becomes relatively hopeless. But to be fair, it is an amazing value, or at least it was 10 years ago at $89 compared to the other offerings around (none). Now even Harbor Freight makes Honda-clone inverter generators.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
That happened a lot on my '59 Sunbeam Alpine. Solution was to keep plugs in the house so they could be installed warm.
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OMG! I will keep my USB plugs in the house overnight now so my phone charges faster in the morning when I get in the car.
 
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