Engine out practice

[donjohnston]

No, I meant single engine. You can pull the prop on a single engine to "low RPM". It's not feathered, so it still windmills, but the glide performance is much better than in "high RPM". On a twin, you can pull it all the way to "feathered".

Here is the thing: the engine IS running, it's just not making power. The oil pump and alternator continue to work as long as that crankshaft is spinning. Pulling the prop lever back makes a HUGE difference! When I did power-off landings for my commercial in the Bonanza, the RPM control gave me a lot of flexibility over the glide.

Try it out sometime: with the prop at "max RPM", bring the power to idle and establish a glide. Then pull the prop lever back - you can easily feel the acceleration!

- Martin

I think I see the confusion here. Martin is referring to this when simulating an engine out.

In the real world, if your engine fails(either because of no oil, failed oil pump or some catastrophic engine failure), pulling to prop control on a single engine piston airplane isn’t going to accomplish anything.

 

[CharlieD3]

That's all well and good, if you practice this and any other maneuver every month or so. But it doesn't take that long to forget, and if you did this and other similar things over and over, you are gonna hit that point where the chance of the training maneuver causing an issue is greater than the chance of the actual emergency. Some early spin training and one-engine-out twin training went this way.
(Of course, I also won't jump out of a perfectly good airplane with a parachute, but I've run 200 mph on a blown alcohol drag bike. We each choose our own risks.)

Don't practice guitar until a string breaks.

The steps to establish restart can be done by muscle memory, but you don't need an exercise like I've outlined for that. Sit in your aircraft, and put your hands on everything you'd need to do in an engine out emergency. Do it in order, then do it again. The get out of your airplane, stretch your legs, take a whiz, get back in and do it a few more times. That's how you get muscle memory.

Personally, I think it an utterly useless exercise. The only real thing in your muscle memory bank is pushing on the yoke when you lose power so you don't stall. My CFI used to say when something bad happens, wind your watch. That is, take stock, and make intelligent actions calmly. Intelligent actions do not come by muscle memory. You're either going to have time to do it calmly or you're not going to have time to do it at all.

And getting a sick bird down from altitude and safely onto terra firma on a runway has nothing whatsoever to do with muscle memory. You can't practice for every eventuality, but if you do it a few times you'll have a good idea of what your airplane can do and what it can't. Do not shut off your engine. DO NOT SHUT OFF YOUR ENGINE. Nothing worse than making a simulated emergency into a real one. Someone blunders onto the runway while you're on short final and you'll be really happy you left the engine on. Yeah, an idling engine makes some power, but if you can really hit runways with the power off from altitude, you'll be able to easily compensate for the difference. Also, Foreflight has glide advisor, a really handy thing to let you know where you can get to and where you can't. Biggest killer in engine outs is guys trying to stretch the glide to get to the runway. You don't want to do that.

I am usually in agreement with steingar.

But...

Muscle memory DOES work.

If you won't have time to "wind your watch" you probably won't have time to poke around your iPad to look for the "glide advisor" but maybe you can ask Siri...

Yes, PUSH first... AOPA just did a little segment on exactly that. Rough trim for best glide. Do a checklist if you have time (altitude) =doubtful. Look outside, pick your spot, make it, and walk away... Fly the plane until it is done moving, or you are.

Ideally, I think glider time would be a great tool.

Listen, I'm just a hundred hour pilot... So don't mind me. Lots of good folks around POA much more experienced than I. I am however, a practical man, and I don't think what the OP did was outta line. Once committed, it was done in the safest way possible.

 

[brcase]

By the way, this is why the assumption that people should be able to safely glide a plane beautifully into a field, or highway / parking lot without hitting anything and people walking away unscathed is a dubious one.

You did this experiment in a controlled environment, near an airport, really, you encountered an "engine failure" in the BEST, POSSIBLE, SCENARIO... and it worked! But there's a fair amount of disapproval from the board for attempting this

I wonder, how would most aviators fair losing their engine above the clouds getting vectors for an instrument approach into a busy Charlie.

Flying, especially dead stick flying, is NOT easy.

Because for a well trained pilot in "most situations" they should be able to glide to a safe landing area and walk away. And this seems to actually happen with a reasonable amount of frequency. A good pilot will make a reasonable effort keep at least better landing area's within range when possible.

For myself and my friend an instructor I have worked closely with for a long time we practice engine out scenerio's almost daily. So far I have only put gliders into fields (about 10 times in 20 years/1200hours), with no ill affects.
The other instructor is not a glider pilot (actually our glider tow pilot) has put two airplanes down dead stick. Our previous Tow pilot dead sticked a Citabria in after towing me. I flew for 2.5 hours his flight lasted less than 2 minute after I released from the tow plane.
The most recent incident is the only one that even damaged the airplane,
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/03/cessna-172n-skyhawk-n6486j-incident.html
My friend stated that once he realized they were not going to restart the engine he actually relaxed and was just doing what we practice, he was not concerned about the outcome at all. I flew over the site the day after the incident. He picked the same field I would have picked and landing the same way I would have. It was just bad luck they even damaged the airplane. We had had the heaviest rainfall of the year just a couple days before and the field was just a bit two wet to support the airplane and it went up on its nose and wingtip damaging the wing. The other 350 days of the year there would have been no damage to the airplane.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Martin Pauly]

In the real world, if your engine fails(either because of no oil, failed oil pump or some catastrophic engine failure), pulling to prop control on a single engine piston airplane isn’t going to accomplish anything.

Some catastrophic failures are like that, yes.

Other engine failures (real, not simulated) have the engine continue to spin. Like anything fuel-related (running out of fuel, fuel hose disconnects, carburetor icing, fuel contamination), loss of ignition, blocked air intake. I don't have statistics to quantify these, but fuel starvation along has got to be a significant percentage of all engine-out landings, going by accident reports.

- Martin

 

[Brad W]

I've heard about instructors and other folks doing this for my entire aviation "career". I've always been impressed with the idea of practicing it but have never had an instructor do it and I've not done it myself. the closest was full engine shutdown during my twin training....and in the 150HP Apache it might as well been a single at that point.... but was still making noise

wonder statistically how many times the engine just quits vs. the number of times it is making some power just not enough to sustain flight?

I had a 172 falter on takeoff once, probably 150ft or so up. Fortunately i was on a very long runway.... I recon most don't die cold right away.

Side note: I wish everyone would get some glider training as part of their Pilot’s license. You learn a lot.
Pilots these days are too dependent on having a running engine all the time.

Does the air force academy still do primary in gliders? i think so.
It wasn't loggable training for me, but one of the CFII's at the school I trained at was a glider pilot...not CFI in the glider. He took me up once and so I had a little simulated instruction.... I did not like the feeling on short final at all!

 

[RoscoeT]

Try it in a Biplane that glides like a brick. I was lucky.View attachment 82689 View attachment 82690

Did you lose oil pressure? If so, your prop woulda gone course in which case these things really don't glide as bad as people like to hype. If you were flying with the prop full forward and maintained oil pressure and didn't pull the prop back, yeah they do glide pretty steep in fine pitch.

 

[brcase]

This book is written by a local pilot I know... And he isn't one of the pilots I talked about in my previous post.

I'm reading "Adventures of an Idaho Mountain Pilot" by Harold Dougal and wanted to share this quote with you.

"Chapter 23-Engine Trouble Over the Owyhee Mountains How many of you, out there, have had a forced landing? How many of you have had more than a dozen? I'll bet that there isn't one of you that has had as many as I have? Would you believe 84? Yes, there was a time in my career that I seemed to have a forced landing in every airplane I flew. I seemed to average one for every year of my age. I counted number 63 in 1989! I didn't mind the forced landings as long as there was a place to land safely. What used to scare the heck out o' me was when the engine sputtered and shook for some strange reason and I did not have a place to land safely below me! That's when I broke out in a cold sweat! They were not all caused by engine failures but a goodly share of 'em was."

Start reading it for free: http://a.co/gL5878P
--------
Download Kindle for Android, iOS, PC, Mac and more
http://amzn.to/1r0LubW

 

[brcase]

Kudos to you. I've tried this before as well (and I was also recommended to not do it), in my warrior. I had an actual dead stick once many years ago, and I always felt I managed more on luck than skill during that episode, so since then I've tried to improve my skills.
I tried gliding first with the mixture pulled to full lean (prop still wind milling), then slowed the plane down to get the prop to stop and then tried gliding with the prop stopped. I felt there was very little difference. I also then tried diving to restart the motor, which did NOT work: the motor would sort-of turn over, a half turn, then pause, a half turn, then pause, but wouldn't start even though I was in a steep dive. I had to hit the starter.
I know most will tell you not to try this. Then I would say for them, don't try it.

It is an interesting exercise, but with perhaps the OP as an exception, in most cases I find there is very little value in doing so. What I have learned is the Power to Idle Practice we do is an excellent simulation of power failure and most pilots in most planes can't tell the difference between an idling engine and a windmilling engine. So practice lots of emergency procedures with the engine just idling. Maybe have someone experienced in doing so help you safely demonstrate what you plane actually does. Not a lot of risk doing it over a 12mile x 6 mile wide dry lake for which nearly all of it is landable in any direction.

Brian

 

[Weekend Warrior]

It is an interesting exercise, but with perhaps the OP as an exception, in most cases I find there is very little value in doing so. What I have learned is the Power to Idle Practice we do is an excellent simulation of power failure and most pilots in most planes can't tell the difference between an idling engine and a windmilling engine. So practice lots of emergency procedures with the engine just idling. Maybe have someone experienced in doing so help you safely demonstrate what you plane actually does. Not a lot of risk doing it over a 12mile x 6 mile wide dry lake for which nearly all of it is landable in any direction.

Brian

I agree Brian. I guess I just had to see for myself. Incidentally, the one time I did it I tried to do it as safely as possible: near my home drone there is a large (probably close to several full-sections-sized) sod farm. I climbed to about 9000 feet above the sod farm, pulled the power to idle, then the mixture to full lean. After gliding for a loss of 1500 feet or so, I then nosed up to near stall to get the prop to stop, and lost another 1500 feet while gliding. After that I tried about 2000 feet of dive to see if I could re-start it, then gave up and started it back up with the starter, at about 3000 feet above the sod farm. Doing it for a one-time experiment was enough for me. I do have another experiment I've been meaning to try (sorry not meaning to drift the thread) of running a tank dry while at altitude. Come to think of it, I may try this soon.

 

[Salty]

I agree Brian. I guess I just had to see for myself. Incidentally, the one time I did it I tried to do it as safely as possible: near my home drone there is a large (probably close to several full-sections-sized) sod farm. I climbed to about 9000 feet above the sod farm, pulled the power to idle, then the mixture to full lean. After gliding for a loss of 1500 feet or so, I then nosed up to near stall to get the prop to stop, and lost another 1500 feet while gliding. After that I tried about 2000 feet of dive to see if I could re-start it, then gave up and started it back up with the starter, at about 3000 feet above the sod farm. Doing it for a one-time experiment was enough for me. I do have another experiment I've been meaning to try (sorry not meaning to drift the thread) of running a tank dry while at altitude. Come to think of it, I may try this soon.

I do this quite often on long trips. I want all the remaining fuel in one tank. Usually I switch tanks when it starts to sputter and it never really shuts off, but one time I was not paying close attention and it shut off all the way. My wife was not pleased, but she liked that it fired up instantly when I threw the switch.

 

[Tantalum]

Because for a well trained pilot in "most situations" they should be able to glide to a safe landing area and walk away. And this seems to actually happen with a reasonable amount of frequency. A good pilot will make a reasonable effort keep at least better landing area's within range when possible.

For myself and my friend an instructor I have worked closely with for a long time we practice engine out scenerio's almost daily. So far I have only put gliders into fields (about 10 times in 20 years/1200hours), with no ill affects.
The other instructor is not a glider pilot (actually our glider tow pilot) has put two airplanes down dead stick. Our previous Tow pilot dead sticked a Citabria in after towing me. I flew for 2.5 hours his flight lasted less than 2 minute after I released from the tow plane.
The most recent incident is the only one that even damaged the airplane,
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/03/cessna-172n-skyhawk-n6486j-incident.html
My friend stated that once he realized they were not going to restart the engine he actually relaxed and was just doing what we practice, he was not concerned about the outcome at all. I flew over the site the day after the incident. He picked the same field I would have picked and landing the same way I would have. It was just bad luck they even damaged the airplane. We had had the heaviest rainfall of the year just a couple days before and the field was just a bit two wet to support the airplane and it went up on its nose and wingtip damaging the wing. The other 350 days of the year there would have been no damage to the airplane.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

While it's prudent to fly any single engine plane under the guise of a potential engine out situation, sometimes those options are less available, for example the LOC D approach at SEE here in San Diego takes you over some of the local mountains.. an engine out here would be dicey at best, hopefully you can make it to the 8 or put it down in a reservoir or small field.. otherwise you're probably SOL and ending up on a mountain side. Flying out to Catalina island for lunch, you're basically ditching unless you're lucky enough to lose your engine on final and can glide into the mountaintop airport with steep drop offs on either side of the runway

Going to Santa Barbara they might have you fly circles for traffic, basically somewhere halfway between the channel island and shore, several miles beyond glide range, and on departure they'll have you climb (if you are IFR) to something like 6K or 8K before straight to see before they turn you inbound

Flying IFR to MMH, TVL, or others, you'll also be going over the Sierra Nevadas at some point.. it can be "safely" done, but if you plan to really use a small plane for dependable travel there will be times when you're really hoping the piston up there keeps cranking away

Anyway, my point is, you are right, but you sometimes have to accept some level of risk when flying single engine

 

[Dave Theisen]

I do this quite often on long trips. I want all the remaining fuel in one tank. Usually I switch tanks when it starts to sputter and it never really shuts off, but one time I was not paying close attention and it shut off all the way. My wife was not pleased, but she liked that it fired up instantly when I threw the switch.

I’m curious as to why you do this? Say something gets stuck in the vent, or some dirt or water in that tank, I personally like the option of being able to switch back to where I know there’s at least a little useable fuel.

 

[MBDiagMan]

When I took flying lessons the first time in ‘92, my hard core instructor got very high above the downwind end of the runway, killed the engine, pitched back to stop the prop and told me to spiral down while keeping the runway on a tangent as I came around each time. Following his instructions I spiraled in and put it on the numbers. I would have to look at an old logbook, but I think I was about a 20 hour pilot at the time.

Edit: I looked it up and I had 18.2 hours at the beginning of that simulated emergency descent flight.

Last summer I replaced the engine in my 140 and I flew several hours at over 3,500 feet above the airport doing engine break in. When it came time to come back down, I would pull back to idle and spiral down. Great practice!

He was really bent on teaching emergency procedures, departure stalls and the like.

Good practice! Things can happen.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

I’m curious as to why you do this? Say something gets stuck in the vent, or some dirt or water in that tank, I personally like the option of being able to switch back to where I know there’s at least a little useable fuel.

In the warrior, I would do it for the reason @Salty said, to keep remaining fuel in one tank. I wouldn't worry too much about water, dirt, or blocked vent, as in my warrior I've already been switching back and forth between tanks a couple of times already, on a long flight. If there had been a problem, I'd already know it before running one dry.

 

[Tom-D]

It doesn't matter how much you practice, as you can do it once right.

 

[RyanB]

If there had been a problem, I'd already know it before running one dry.

There’s no guarantee of that.

 

[pigpenracing]

Did you lose oil pressure? If so, your prop woulda gone course in which case these things really don't glide as bad as people like to hype. If you were flying with the prop full forward and maintained oil pressure and didn't pull the prop back, yeah they do glide pretty steep in fine pitch.

So your telling me a Pitts or Eagle has a good glide rate. LOL! The engine took a crap right after takeoff climbing out and I had to make a turn back to the airport. I did it and made a safe landing on the runway.
These are the worse gliding airplanes that exist.
I have flown every Pitts model and a large variety of 4 and 6 cylinder Eagles. I know they don't glide when you chop the power.

 

[RyanB]

So your telling me a Pitts or Eagle has a good glide rate. LOL! The engine took a crap right after takepff climbing out and I had to make a turn back to the airport. I did it and made a safe landing on the runway.
These are the worse gliding airplanes that exist.

He could’ve done it better...

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

There's a group of guys here in SoCal that periodically go out to El Mirage dry lake and set up a "runway" with orange traffic cones. They then proceed to do simulated and actual engine-out landings all afternoon. Whether to kill the engine completely or not is at the pilot's discretion. The beauty is that you can practice from all altitudes and directions, and land in any direction if you can't make the cone runway. I need to join their group sometime soon.

Also, re: discussion of best glide, know your speeds. On the RV-9A, it's 82-83 kts at max gross, but drops to about 76 kts when solo with half fuel.

I have flown every Pitts model and a large variety of 4 and 6 cylinder Eagles. I know they don't glide when you chop the power.

Th rc versions follow suite. Most of my planes do nicely with chop-n-drop, but the Pitts S1A glides like a manhole cover...I use about 1/4 throttle down to a couple feet off the deck.

 

[Dave Theisen]

In the warrior, I would do it for the reason @Salty said, to keep remaining fuel in one tank. I wouldn't worry too much about water, dirt, or blocked vent, as in my warrior I've already been switching back and forth between tanks a couple of times already, on a long flight. If there had been a problem, I'd already know it before running one dry.

I guess I’m just from a different school of thought. I just can’t come up with a reason why to get yourself down to one option. I personally like the idea of knowing I’ve got a fuel source I can go back to if I need it.

 

[RoscoeT]

So your telling me a Pitts or Eagle has a good glide rate. LOL! The engine took a crap right after takeoff climbing out and I had to make a turn back to the airport. I did it and made a safe landing on the runway.
These are the worse gliding airplanes that exist.
I have flown every Pitts model and a large variety of 4 and 6 cylinder Eagles. I know they don't glide when you chop the power.

It's not a Cessna but it's not as bas as people make out unless you're trying to glide in with the prop in fine pitch. I have about 800 hrs in S-1s and S-2s and deadsticked one in once too. No problem. Glad your event turned out well too.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

There’s no guarantee of that.

But it is much, MUCH more likely the problem would already be reveled. And there is also no guarantee that switching tanks will take care of the problem, or no guarantee that both tanks will have a problem.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

I guess I’m just from a different school of thought. I just can’t come up with a reason why to get yourself down to one option. I personally like the idea of knowing I’ve got a fuel source I can go back to if I need it.

Same reason you probably fly a single, and not a twin. That single leaves you down to one option, when there are plenty of twins for sale.

 

[Dave Theisen]

Still curious. Just give me one reason for it.

 

[Brad W]

When I took flying lessons the first time in ‘92, my hard core instructor got very high above the downwind end of the runway, killed the engine, pitched back to stop the prop and told me to spiral down while keeping the runway on a tangent as I came around each time. Following his instructions I spiraled in and put it on the numbers.

that's confidence building I'll bet.

My primary instructor started me out with ALL landing power off from abeam the touchdown point. Later I think we did a lot power off from maybe midfield downwind....
It wasn't till much later in the training we did power on landings.
maybe because of this but I have always seemed to come in high on final

 

[denverpilot]

I guess I’ve done this. Was just an ancient Skyhawk the idle was set too low on. Pulled throttle back, engine quit.

Could restart it, but why? Just a distraction.

Landed on runway and rolled off at the first exit.

Also did real gliders, which tends to take away concerns about not having an engine.

This guy thermals his Taylorcraft. That looks fun.

I’ve used a thermal to help get the fat ass 182 out of a mountain valley, but it’s just helping. The 182 is too heavy to climb it that way without perhaps using a thunderstorm to do it. Bwahaha.

But I’ve added to climb rate with a good thermal in the Skylane.

 

[PaulS]

By the way, this is why the assumption that people should be able to safely glide a plane beautifully into a field, or highway / parking lot without hitting anything and people walking away unscathed is a dubious one.

You did this experiment in a controlled environment, near an airport, really, you encountered an "engine failure" in the BEST, POSSIBLE, SCENARIO... and it worked! But there's a fair amount of disapproval from the board for attempting this

I wonder, how would most aviators fair losing their engine above the clouds getting vectors for an instrument approach into a busy Charlie.

Flying, especially dead stick flying, is NOT easy.

Just did a flight review last week in a Cirrus. The engine out portion consisted of the power being pulled back over a city at about 2,000 agl, I was in the process of getting down to pattern altitude for the airport which was about 8 miles away, I was going about 160 knots. The power got pulled, the closest airport was the one I was going to, my glide range was about 3 miles, dense housing and urban buildings roads stuffed with cars and wires overhead. The only option in this case was a cemetery about 1.5 miles to my left which would leave me enough altitude to pull plus not be an undue danger to people below.

I would never turn off a running engine in a single engine airplane to practice anything, too high risk for me.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I guess I’m just from a different school of thought. I just can’t come up with a reason why to get yourself down to one option. I personally like the idea of knowing I’ve got a fuel source I can go back to if I need it.

I agree. I've never landed with less than an hour's reserve, split more less equally between two tanks. Usually it's more like 1.5 hours.

This guy thermals his Taylorcraft. That looks fun.

I felt like that in the RV when I made the mistake of flying through the Owens Valley (leeward side of the Sierras) in the afternoon, southbound from Mammoth. Nose down and still climbing at 500 fpm. Yee-haww! A major wrestling match with the control stick.

 

[Tantalum]

Just did a flight review last week in a Cirrus. The engine out portion consisted of the power being pulled back over a city at about 2,000 agl, I was in the process of getting down to pattern altitude for the airport which was about 8 miles away, I was going about 160 knots. The power got pulled, the closest airport was the one I was going to, my glide range was about 3 miles, dense housing and urban buildings roads stuffed with cars and wires overhead. The only option in this case was a cemetery about 1.5 miles to my left which would leave me enough altitude to pull plus not be an undue danger to people below.

I would never turn off a running engine in a single engine airplane to practice anything, too high risk for me.

Yeah, this notion that people can safely land and walk away from engine outs is optimistic. Some people sure, and our OP was in the pattern and did it in a "safe" environment; but the typical situation.. no. For the Cirrus we have a luxury of the chute. I was told that unless you are dead sure you can make a landing to pull the chute when at or under 2K AGL

 

[Tantalum]

Owens Valley

Owens Valley can be lots of fun. Kirkwood (up by TVL) recorded 209 mph wind at the summit this past weekend with the snowstorm.. Coming back a few weeks ago it was mostly smooth but I was honking on the groundspeed thanks to a healthy tailwind

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kirkwo...rds-gust-209-mph-potential-record-california/

 

[James331]

There's been a few comments in this thread that sum it up I think.
Other than the lousy glide ratio, there's no difference between performing this procedure in a plane or flying a glider.
If you're uncomfortable with it, I respect that.

I’ve had two full engine failures, didn’t scratch the paint, done all sorts of stuff flying. Thing about shutting down the engine is it’s just risk plus wear and tear with no reward, you can use a figured power setting to simulate the same thing and have power if you need it, as well as not shock cooling the engine by shutting it down with a bunch of airflow still over it.


I got no issue with calculated risk, it’s when the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

 

[Lindberg]

If nothing else, it’s a great way to make sure she’s *not* along when you have an actual engine failure.

Maybe also a great way to make sure flying privileges are revoked.

 

[Lindberg]

I think all this dialog is showing that until you try in your own plane, there's no way to know how it will behave.

This is called being a test pilot.

 

[Doug F]

Practiced engine out yesterday.
Anyone else practice this and have recommendations?

Don't forget to practice all the other stuff your POA says to do as part of an emergency landing. Squawking 7700, calling mayday, fuel off, doors open just before landing, tighten seat belt, whatever else is in there. I didn't do all those things when I did my upside down in a cow field under a power line tied up in a barb wire fence off-airport landing and I got really lucky. Failure to shut off the fuel could have been a disaster if the plane had struck the power lines. Failure to open the door meant I had to take extra time to get out of the plane. Failure to tighten the seat belt meant I bounced around more than I had to (and bouncing = pain). I called mayday late and the closest airport really didn't hear me (passing chopper did and relayed the message plus I went down next to a major highway so somebody would have called 911). Also, think about what happens if you don't land wheels down. In the Skycatcher the seat is on a pivot at the front of the seat. When upside down the seat rotates and everything that used to be close is not (door locks for instance; I couldn't reach the lower lock with my hands). Your brain is scrambled and you're may not be thinking clearly. I spent too much time trying to unlock the door while belted in when it would have been easier to unbelt, fall out of the seat, and then go for the doors (which should have been open anyway).

I would recommend you spend time learning how to evaluate possible landing sites, which isn't easy. Power lines, trees, cows, fences, ditches, what's down there that could really ruin your day and can you avoid them. This is hard to do because some of that stuff isn't easy to see until it's too late to change your mind but it's worth the time to at least think about. I also had a lot of difficulty translating the view of the emergency landing site into actual distances; is that field really long enough for me to land on? Looking at Google Earth later I discovered that the field I selected was juuuuusst about long enough for a short field landing, except for the elevated berm, pile of rocks, and big metal pipe about 1/2 way down the field (which I missed but that's a different story).

For the record, I'd never shut off the engine unless I was 110% sure I could stick the landing and never EVER if I wasn't right over a runway. For the other record, it was a rental I I wasn't allowed to do engine off practice without a CFI in the plane.

At the end of the day, if you lose your engine, you're gonna get one shot at the landing. Practice, be good, be smart, and hope you're lucky!

 

[brcase]

I’m curious as to why you do this? Say something gets stuck in the vent, or some dirt or water in that tank, I personally like the option of being able to switch back to where I know there’s at least a little useable fuel.[/QUOT

I guess I’m just from a different school of thought. I just can’t come up with a reason why to get yourself down to one option. I personally like the idea of knowing I’ve got a fuel source I can go back to if I need it.

I generally don’t try to run them dry but I will try to run them a close to empty as I can. Sometime my calculations are off and I end up running it dry. Especially useful in the Viking I flew for a bit with 5 tanks.

Even in the Cherokee I have more than One Option. I usually plan run then thank near empty over a reasonably laudable area and airport if possible. Same reason i usually try to switch tanks over better landing area’s. If the fuel valve breaks or fails I have another option.

Brian

 

[CharlieD3]

BRSs are a wonderful thing.

In woodworking, you have Saw Stop. It'll keep you from removing fingers.

And thank goodness for the warning labels on Tide Pods! They look so doggone EDIBLE!

It might snow an inch! Let's go get bread and milk or we'll surely die!

And here's a new safety warning for you... Don't pop the bubble wrap... The air in it is Chinese, just sayin'.

The OP did it in his own plane in the safest possible environment. Maybe he should have cracked the door and tightened the belt too, just in case. But otherwise, he feels more competent; and probably is. He got to know his plane better than most.

If YOU don't feel safe doing it, don't.

If YOU need to pull the red lever, be my guest.

If you feel safer with adaptive cruise control, or autonomous driving, get a car that does it.

I would bet Ted's Cobra won't have airbags.

I remember once, reading an Op Ed in some magazine suggesting 10 or 20 things young men should learn to become grown men. Firearms was in there, cooking, and flying were in it as well.

It doesn't just apply to men. Many of the detractors in this thread remind me of the car insurance ad with the 2 young men calling daddy because they had a flat tire...
"Of course I know what a lug wrench is..."

 

[steingar]

Don't practice guitar until a string breaks.



I am usually in agreement with steingar.

You are usually a wise man

But...

Muscle memory DOES work.

Of course it does, otherwise we'd be unable to ride a bicycle, or walk, or even chew gum.

If you won't have time to "wind your watch" you probably won't have time to poke around your iPad to look for the "glide advisor" but maybe you can ask Siri...

Yes, PUSH first... AOPA just did a little segment on exactly that. Rough trim for best glide. Do a checklist if you have time (altitude) =doubtful. Look outside, pick your spot, make it, and walk away... Fly the plane until it is done moving, or you are.

Ideally, I think glider time would be a great tool.

Listen, I'm just a hundred hour pilot... So don't mind me. Lots of good folks around POA much more experienced than I. I am however, a practical man, and I don't think what the OP did was outta line. Once committed, it was done in the safest way possible.

You are of course entitled to your opinion whether a hundred hour or a thousand hour pilot. And I think I outlined how you can get muscle memory in your crate. I myself think what the OP did was nuts, since if anything had gone wrong on that runway he'd have had a true blue emergency. But that's just my opinion, to which I'm entitled. Given that I'm not a superhuman RV pilot I suppose it doesn't mean much.I will leave the there for your entertainment.

 

[Salty]

if anything had gone wrong on that runway he'd have had a true blue emergency.

Only if the engine didn’t restart after pushing in the mixture, which there’s very little likelihood it wouldn’t.

I don’t personally see the positive risk/reward to riding it dead stick all the way to the runway, but glider pilots are doing it all over the world every day so it’s not that big of a deal.

 

[steingar]

Only if the engine didn’t restart after pushing in the mixture, which there’s very little likelihood it wouldn’t.

I don’t personally see the positive risk/reward to riding it dead stick all the way to the runway, but glider pilots are doing it all over the world every day so it’s not that big of a deal.

Dead stick is one thing, but if I was reading correctly the OP said he "killed the engine entirely". That to me means pulling the mixture. I think that a bit nuts. Like I said, if anything went sideways he'd not be able to restart the engine in time. I know people do this in gliders all the time, but the one time I tried to fly a glider there was a dedicated field with lots of people watching out. And people crash gliders and land out all the time too.

 

[RyanB]

Only if the engine didn’t restart after pushing in the mixture, which there’s very little likelihood it wouldn’t.

The prop has to be moving for that to happen. Shoving the mixture forward with a stopped prop isn’t going to restart the engine.