Engine Heater

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jflong

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jflong
Winter has arrived. Anyone have experience with Twin Hornet 22 engine pre-heater? Really seems too good to be true. There are only a couple of videos on youTube all very positive reviews, but one of them is from company themselves. Looking for options this winter since my 182 hates the cold.
 
My shop prefers the Reiff.

And feels that the sump heater is enough.

YMMV.
 
I’ve got Reiff’s Turbo XP system on both planes, but I live in Alaska and winter is long here. I’ve tried lots of combinations of heaters through the years and Reiff is my fav. Tanis would be fine, too, now that they use cylinder bands. Both provide effective heat and are totally safe to use with the plane unattended. And that’s a big deal when it’s -30 outside.
 
That heater reminds me of the hair dryer I use, Although I don’t use it when I am not there. A heating pad on the sump helps also. That’s how I do it on the cheap.
 
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Many internal engine parts are lubed via “ splash n spray”.

If oil does not drip from the stick then DON’T start the engine!

Anyone for oil dilution?
 
I used one for years in a Cessna cardinal with an O-360. Left it plugged in all winter and it worked great with oil temp and CHTs in the high 50s to low 60s even on the coldest days in Salt Lake (in a hangar with a blanket over the cowl).
 
I have a Tannis. It was great back when I was in the unheated hangar, but I've not had much call to use it now that I'm in a heated hangar.

My most amusing story was one time I had parked the plane at IAD right before Christmas week (we had retrieved our daughter from UNV and we lived right by IAD). I'd asked the line guy if he could either put the plane in their hangar or at least get it close enough to the building to plugin in the Tannis. The next day I came out to find the Navion the only airplane in this cavernous empty hangar sitting there with the block heater also plugged in.
 
I have one of the hornets. Works ok; takes a couple hours to get noticeable heat in the engine, longer than the oil sump pads and definitely longer than the Reiff or Tanis cylinder heating systems. The Hornet got retired from engine heating duty in favor of an oil sump pad, and now heats the cabin. Which it does quite well. The family appreciates not sitting on ice cold seats.
 
So, here's a thought. Cold season here is ~4 months. Mid November - Mid March. Running the numbers, an always on 100 W heater would consume about $30 of electricity if it was on 24/7 for those 4 months. Substantially less if I put one on a thermostat that turns the heat off if hangar temps are 60F or above.

Why not create a heat sink with a 100 W heater pad on it and simply place that inside the cowling, with a blanket and cowl plugs installed and avoid the need for a switch, a subscription, etc? I figure a 100 W heater and accompanying blanket would be good for +20 or +30F in under-cowl temperatures, which is plenty in moderate climates.
 
bbarrett said:
I have one of the hornets. Works ok; takes a couple hours to get noticeable heat in the engine, longer than the oil sump pads and definitely longer than the Reiff or Tanis cylinder heating systems. The Hornet got retired from engine heating duty in favor of an oil sump pad, and now heats the cabin. Which it does quite well. The family appreciates not sitting on ice cold seats.
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I bought a small ceramic heater at Target for $20. When I get to the hanger, I put the heater on the floor under the panel while I’m doing preflight. By the time I’m ready to pull the cherokee out of the hanhar, cabin is nice and warm.
 
15 winters in the Chicago area. The best pre-heater I had was a 100w light bulb in the bottom of the engine compartment with a blanket on top. Turned it out the night before a flight and engine oil was 40-50f at engine start the next morning.

This assumes a hangar with electricity though.
 
I've been using the twin hornet for years, works great. My airplane has no space for a bulb that wouldn't melt a hose or two, but the twin hornet lives inside my engine cowl. I put on cowl plugs and put blankets on the nose. Airplane is ready to start all winter long.
 
donjohnston said:
15 winters in the Chicago area. The best pre-heater I had was a 100w light bulb in the bottom of the engine compartment with a blanket on top. Turned it out the night before a flight and engine oil was 40-50f at engine start the next morning.

This assumes a hangar with electricity though.
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I did the same in Denver for 10 yrs until I had the oil pan heater (Reiff) installed.
 
isn’t going to get challenging to get suitable 100w bulbs?
 
Fearless. I agree with your observation.

I mentioned oil dilution to see if there are any folks that even heard of the system.

While I encountered it on 180s and 182s it was pretty much of a Radial thing.
It worked well IF
The system was properly designed and maintained.
The Flight Crew was well trained in the operation and documentation.
You had to plan for the next start before shutting down.
 
FYI, my local FBO (maintenance and rental) suggests that oil sump heater is enough.

That is what they run on their rental/trainer fleet, which are tied down outside.

They also run them 24/7. Although the 172s fly almost every day, they have an Arrow and Citabria (Citabria is in t-hangar) that fly only occasionally.

I am in T-hangar with southern exposure, so it gets solar heating. I have a sump heater, and need to get a SwitchedOn. But for a while, I any only about 5 minutes from the airport, so I can run over the night before and plug it in, if I do not just leave it plugged in.
 
One guy I know installed the full Reiff system + on his Cub . Since there is no 110AC
available he uses a portable generator.
The “ +” is because he put an extra sump heater to minimize preheat time.
 
Sump heater and insulated cowl cover snd I get cylinders I’ve laser temped in the 80’s in the middle of MI winter…
 
Rule of thumb - corrosion rate doubles with a 10 degree C increase in temperature (20ish degrees F).

Since my engine just sits for a week or two between flights during the winter (The day job, lack of daylight, and weather really put a damper on things...) you won't catch me leaving it plugged in all the time so it can rust away faster.
 
murphey said:
I bought a small ceramic heater at Target for $20. When I get to the hanger, I put the heater on the floor under the panel while I’m doing preflight. By the time I’m ready to pull the cherokee out of the hanhar, cabin is nice and warm.
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That saves the gyros, too. They hate being started in the cold. Their bearing lube isn't quite soft enough to protect them.
 
mondtster said:
The oil pan seems like a suitable heat sink to glue it to.
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Cam and lifter corrosion have been noted in engines with sump heaters. The heater raises the vapor pressure of any moisture in the sump, and it rises and condenses on the bare stuff up higher. It's another reason one should not start that engine unless you're going to fly it for awhile to drive off moisture that accumulates while the engine is cool and the blowby is greater.
 
I think the worst situ is having a heater that is on a timer that cycles ON/OFF daily.
Dan’s comment on Cam/lifters reminds me of an O-235L2C as in a 152 that ALMOST made it to 100 hrs SMOH. Since it has mechanical lifters it surfaced there first.
Then metal, lower Static RPM , etc .
 
Magman said:
Many internal engine parts are lubed via “ splash n spray”.

If oil does not drip from the stick then DON’T start the engine!
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It's not just the thick oil not being flung. It doesn't want to be sucked into the pump, either, and the pump will cavitate. The bearings get no lube and they burn up.

I used to put a quart of each of 15W50, 80 and 100 in the freezer the night before the class on lubrication and other stuff. And a quart of each at room temperature. And a quart of each in a pan of water brought to just short of a boil and held there for an hour or so. Did this all in the lounge where we had a fridge and stove. It really opens a student's eyes when he/she sees what happens to oil at the extremes. They're used to seeing it a room temp when they top up the oil. They had no idea how stiff it got at -10°C or how runny it got at 100°C. I asked them if it would be easy to suck the cold stuff up a straw. Nope, they said. I wished I had a freezer capable of -25°C. The straight-weights would be pretty much solid and even the 15W50 would be stiffening up considerably.

It also demonstrated the relative viscosity stability of the multigrade. Didn't thicken or thin nearly as much as the straight-weights.
 
Sounds like a great demo. Might consider borrowing and adding clear plastic tubing and plug inlet and drill small small the same as in Suction Screen.
 
I've had the twin hornet for 4 years. Great unit. Nice long cord that stays flexible even in cold weather.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Rule of thumb - corrosion rate doubles with a 10 degree C increase in temperature (20ish degrees F).

Since my engine just sits for a week or two between flights during the winter (The day job, lack of daylight, and weather really put a damper on things...) you won't catch me leaving it plugged in all the time so it can rust away faster.
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Let me get this right. You'd not put your airplane in a heated hangar all winter for fear of corrosion?
 
I have used the twin hornet for about a year. I appreciate having it there and definitely can tell a difference in starting.
Typically my engine is in the 57-60deg range when it’s in the 40s in the hangar.

I still kind of want the hot bands for my O470. Really I want a oil cooler heater pad because that little bugger takes forever to warm up enough to open the vermatherm. Especially since I don’t take off until it does open and oil temp/pressure stabilizes. I’d like to minimize my ground time.
 
steingar said:
Let me get this right. You'd not put your airplane in a heated hangar all winter for fear of corrosion?
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A heated hanger would be a LOT nicer for working on things, nicer for cold starts, nicer to get into, etc.
But, it's a tradeoff. Your engine is connected to the ambient air only through a long skinny breather tube - it's going to take a long time for the moisture in the over saturated air inside the crankcase to diffuse out of the engine. How long, I don't know. But, in the meantime...

Would I use a heated hangar? Yea. But again, it's a tradeoff.

Would I plug in engine heaters of one kind of another and leave them on 24-7 (or put them on a timer)? Given that the airplane sits for weeks at a time, that's a hard no.
 
A warm airplane has happy gyros. Plastics don't get brittle and shrink and crack, including stuff in the radios. In the hangar, the wind doesn't yank at stuff and wear it out, stuff like control surface hinges and their cables and pulleys and fairleads. The wind doesn't rock the airplane and move the fuel in the tank, which moves the fuel level sender and wears it out. The wind doesn't drive dust and snow into everything. It doesn't get sandblasted. UV doesn't age it. Birds can't get at it.

I'd take the slightly accelerated corrosion over all the outside stuff any day. And if one operates that engine properly, no ground running only, corrosion will be minimal because crankcase moisture will be minimal.
 
And the hangar likely has power so the Engine Dryer can be plugged in.

I’m a fan.
 
Pinecone said:
My shop prefers the Reiff.
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Reiff is excellent.

And feels that the sump heater is enough.
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Ugh. This is either because "we've always done it that way" or because they want your engine to die an early death so that they can make money off of you having to overhaul it sooner... See below.

Pinecone said:
FYI, my local FBO (maintenance and rental) suggests that oil sump heater is enough.

That is what they run on their rental/trainer fleet, which are tied down outside.

They also run them 24/7.
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Sump only is maybe good enough for flight school airplanes that fly literally every day and thus get nice hot oil splashed around inside their engines frequently.

Sump only is TERRIBLE for planes that don't fly a lot. It helps to keep moisture levels high inside the engine, but doesn't keep all parts of the engine warm enough to keep condensation from forming.

If you do have sump only, DO NOT leave it plugged in all the time. Only plug it in when you WILL fly.

Personally, after a lot of study on the subject, I keep my plane (which is in an unheated hangar) with its Reiff Standard System (100W sump plus 50W/cylinder bands) plugged in all the time, mainly because I usually decide to fly without enough time to plug in far enough in advance to be effective. I also vent the crankcase, and I have cowl plugs and a blanket over the cowl to help keep the heat in as well as the engine evenly heated.

It's working so far. I've had the plane for 10 years now and I'm 300 hours past TBO and have no abnormal indications in the oil analysis.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Reiff is excellent.


Personally, after a lot of study on the subject, I keep my plane (which is in an unheated hangar) with its Reiff Standard System (100W sump plus 50W/cylinder bands) plugged in all the time, mainly because I usually decide to fly without enough time to plug in far enough in advance to be effective. I also vent the crankcase, and I have cowl plugs and a blanket over the cowl to help keep the heat in as well as the engine evenly heated.

It's working so far. I've had the plane for 10 years now and I'm 300 hours past TBO and have no abnormal indications in the oil analysis.
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If you ordered the Reiff again would you opt for the 100w bands?
I’m considering this

thanks!
 
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