Engine fire inflight

RyanB

RyanB

Super Administrator
Management Council Member
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
16,622
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Display Name
Display name:
Ryan
A man that flies out of the airport I do was out on a flight a few nights ago and came across fog at his intended point of landing so he diverted to another airport that was VFR upon reaching the airport he heard a bang and the engine was on fire and the cockpit started filling with black smoke, he found a field and got it down and both pax walked away with some minor injuries but the aircraft looks destroyed. What causes an engine to catch on fire and cause black smoke to fill the cockpit? The aircraft was a Bellanca viking.
 
Last edited:
Ryanb said:
What causes an engine to catch on fire and cause black smoke to fill the cockpit? The aircraft was a Bellanca viking.
Click to expand...

Heat, fuel and oxygen :yes:

Heat is easy. The whole engine is hot as hell. Especially the exhaust. Oxygen is rather self explanatory. There's a lot of air in the sky. Fuel is usually gasoline leaking out from a broken fuel line or fitting.

Burning gasoline and/or oil generally produced black smoke. As opposed to burning wires and other material, which usually produces white/grey smoke. Coming into the cabin... depends where the fire is. If the vents are open....
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Heat, fuel and oxygen :yes:

Heat is easy. The whole engine is hot as hell. Especially the exhaust. Oxygen is rather self explanatory. There's a lot of air in the sky. Fuel is usually gasoline leaking out from a broken fuel line or fitting.

Burning gasoline and/or oil generally produced black smoke. As opposed to burning wires and other material, which usually produces white/grey smoke. Coming into the cabin... depends where the fire is. If the vents are open....
Click to expand...

So bottom line, safe to say most inflight fires are caused broken fuel lines that let fuel onto the hot engine? Just wondering about this, as to inflight fire vs. engine failure "rarity or probability" even though i know these things like "probability" have been hashed out a lot lately, just wonder how likely an inflight fire is?
 
Possibly a rod broke in the engine, then broke a hole in the case and spewed oil on the already hot exhaust. Just my swag.
 
Zeldman said:
Possibly a rod broke in the engine, then broke a hole in the case and spewed oil on the already hot exhaust. Just my swag.
Click to expand...

A broken rod would seem to make sense for the loud bang
Biggest thing i dont understand is why these things break. Car engines dont seem to have these issues..and airplane engines are supposed to be simpler
 
I think most fires can be traced to oil or fuel leaks, from wherever. Then you have hot exhaust to help light it off. Burning or over heated wires are another cause.

One may want to consider putting it down in the soybean field if the fire is bad enough.

Any slight fluid leak under the cowl needs to be dealt with before the next flight. Once in a while it's good to look around post flight under the cowl.
 
The bang could be from a mechanical failure that breached the engine block. That would expose hot oil to the hot exhaust, which certainly would burn. But what you describe sounds like a lot more fire than that. The bang could just as easily be a misfire from a fuel flow interruption.

As for airplane engines vs car engines... Drive your car around at the edge of red line RPM from start up to shut down, for several hours each time, with a water pump that only pumps about 1/2 it's cooling capacity. See how long it lasts :no:

The simplicity of aviation piston engines reduces the points of failure and introduces redundancy. And they are indeed very robust, since they put up with the daily abuse that no other normal gas engine would ever survive. Plus you can take them apart and rebuild them.

By the way, this happened at NIGHT??
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
The simplicity of aviation piston engines reduces the points of failure and introduces redundancy. And they are indeed very robust, since they put up with the daily abuse that no other normal gas engine would ever survive. Plus you can take them apart and rebuild them.

By the way, this happened at NIGHT??
Click to expand...

Yes happened about 9 at night
 
So just to make sure I've got this. He had an inflight fire (and engine failure?) and managed to land it in a field and walk away... in the dark?

Just so you know, that is generally the worst case scenario that never ends well, with even half the problems he had.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
So just to make sure I've got this. He had an inflight fire (and engine failure?) and managed to land it in a field and walk away... in the dark?

Just so you know, that is generally the worst case scenario that never ends well, with even half the problems he had.
Click to expand...

Engine fire which i guess was a failure, it was night and was said to be 100 ft. from the airport and put the airplane down before he got to the runway, supposedly it was some kind of open spot and he clipped a tree coming down and made a landing he and his pax walked away from but aircraft appears destroyed, he did a good job!

News story: http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/26549672/plane-crash-survivor-speaks-about-final-moments-in-air
 
Last edited:
Engine failure means it stopped running, no longer making thrust, gliding the plan down to the scene of the crash. If the engine kept running, that would not be an engine failure. Not that being on fire with the engine running makes it much better, but still.

Either way, making a forced landing of any kind in the dark in a field is extremely bad news. Doing so while also on fire..... yikes.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Engine failure means it stopped running, no longer making thrust, gliding the plan down to the scene of the crash. If the engine kept running, that would not be an engine failure. Not that being on fire with the engine running makes it much better, but still.

Either way, making a forced landing of any kind in the dark in a field is extremely bad news. Doing so while also on fire..... yikes.
Click to expand...

Yes, didnt really say if it was a field but obviously some kind of a small open spot, never the less he did a great job.

Can an engine still make power even if its on fire, i thought a fire meant a failure.
 
As long as the engine is physically intact and receiving fuel, of course. The engine doesn't care if it or anything else is on fire. The fuel could be leaking but not completely disconnected from feeding the engine.
 
Ryanb said:
A broken rod would seem to make sense for the loud bang
Biggest thing i dont understand is why these things break. Car engines dont seem to have these issues..and airplane engines are supposed to be simpler
Click to expand...

I hear about car fires every now and then on the interstate. Mass producing a bunch of metal parts, then putting them really close together and moving them at high rates of speed for hours...One of them is bound to fail at somepoint.
 
A buddy of mine watched a Mini Cooper burst into flames on the freeway a couple days back. The driver and passenger pulled over and got out before the flames (from under the hood) quickly devoured the car.

It's not just airplanes.
 
It's or was an old airplane. No telling how many total hours on an old engine. Anything is possible. Cars usually cruise and accelerate at much slower RPM's that aircraft engines unless you really thrash it. Plus aircraft are air cooled which is hard on an engine as it's inefficient. Run the hell out of a 1960 Chevy see how long it lasts.
 
Last edited:
The engine in my car would be a terrible airplane engine. It weighs as much as a 540, but to make that power consistently would need about 40" and 4,000 RPM.

Throwing a rod usually has a rod knock come before it. You won't hear that in a plane. You might have an oil pressure indication, you might not.
 
Zeldman said:
Possibly a rod broke in the engine, then broke a hole in the case and spewed oil on the already hot exhaust. Just my swag.
Click to expand...


From what the OP described, that sounds most likely. The oil escaping through the hole in the case would most likely find the exhaust and that would be the cause of the smoke. Gasoline fires aren't usually as smoky and are far hotter.

If this ever happens to anyone who's reading this, the engine may very well run for a while even with one connecting rod broken, particularly at a low power setting. Eventually all the oil will leak out and the engine will seize for lack of lubrication, but that may not happen until after you've made an emergency landing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top