Endorsement

ahmad

ahmad

Pre-takeoff checklist
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I should know the answer to this but I don't so I'll ask.

Do I need to have an endorsement from a CFI to fly a C150 if I did all my trainings and ppl/instrument rating in a C172?

My insurance requires that I fly the 150 with a cfi and get signed off but do the FARs require it?
 
I believe this is for insurance purposes only. As far as the fars are concerned, I think they are both single engine land airplanes with fixed gear/prop and less than 200hp.
 
I agree with everyone above that said there is no regulatory requirement. Curious though, how many hours does your insurance want for transition from a 172 to a 150? That sounds like such a ridiculously easy transition to me.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
For discussion, what about:
120/140/170?
180?
182?
208?
All ASEL, but…
Click to expand...

You'll need the high-performance endorsement for the 180, 182 and 208. They all have more than 200 hp. And if it is a tail dragger, you'll need that endorsement, as well. This assumes, of course, that you hadn't logged time in a high-perf or tail dragger before a certain date before my check ride.
 
It comes down the adage concerning being legal or current versus proficient. Pretty simply the requirements for the FAA and insurance are different, as their goals are somewhat different. It is no different when you rent a plane from a business that does not know you. So from the FA A there is no need for additional endorsements to fly a 152 or any othef non complex, non high power air single engine plane for that matter. From the insurance point of view they want to make sure you are safe flying it. So the FAA want to make sure you are legal, the insurance company wants to make sure you are proficient (or as best they can).
 
Thanks for the responses and feedback.
 
I wanted to fly a neighbor’s Ercoupe, so he gave me a checkout in it. “Fuel valve is there, master back there, trim lever there, climb and fly final at 80, go have fun.”
 
Legally, no, you’re good to go. But legal and safe don’t always equate, I’d go up with an instructor first time.
 
Legally no but the club might require it or insurance.
I would certainly do a check out flight, No mater what the transition is, you will always learn something
 
ahmad said:
I should know the answer to this but I don't so I'll ask.

Do I need to have an endorsement from a CFI to fly a C150 if I did all my trainings and ppl/instrument rating in a C172?

My insurance requires that I fly the 150 with a cfi and get signed off but do the FARs require it?
Click to expand...
"Signed off"? What the heck does that mean? It's not an FAA thing, so the insurance company has to define it. "Sign off" doesn't convey much meaning.
 
Aviatorbrew said:
Legally no but the club might require it or insurance.
I would certainly do a check out flight, No mater what the transition is, you will always learn something
Click to expand...
A couple rental places I checked out in would let you fly their 152s and 172s if you checked out in their 182. I struggle to see how someone that passed their check ride in a 172 would not be able to fly a 152 safely, but it's not my circus, people can make any dumb rule they'd like.
 
Our FBO requires a checkout in each model. The lower powered 150 is not going to perform as well as the 172, and we'd like the pilot to understand that and be prepared for it. It's a company policy, not an FAA requirement.
 
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Gilbert Buettner said:
Our FBO requires a checkout in each model. The lower powered 150 is not going to perform as well as the 172, and we'd like the pilot to understand that and be prepared for it. It's a company policy, not an FAA requirement.
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Ok, so I think it's silly, and a quick discussion on the ground would cover it, BUT if it were MY plane, I'd want it too. Unfortunately, there are too many idiots out there that managed to get a cert.
 
kaiser said:
One of my clubs requires a checkout on each tail number (we have multiple 172s). I think it’s an insurance requirement.
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Of the same model 172? Sounds like a money making scheme to me. I doubt that’s insurance driven tbh.
 
RyanB said:
Correct, it’s not an endorsement that he needs, but rather the C150 type rating.
Click to expand...

A little off topic, but there are countries that require each type of airplane the certificate holder flies to be checked by a CAA official and added to their certificate.
 
RyanB said:
Of the same model 172? Sounds like a money making scheme to me. I doubt that’s insurance driven tbh.
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More likely it’s because they have different avionics, and many pilots aren’t capable of qualifying themselves on avionics.
 
Doc Holliday said:
A little off topic, but there are countries that require each type of airplane the certificate holder flies to be checked by a CAA official and added to their certificate.
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Yup…I see type ratings for C-152 fairly frequently.
 
Doc Holliday said:
A little off topic, but there are countries that require each type of airplane the certificate holder flies to be checked by a CAA official and added to their certificate.
Click to expand...
Wow.
 
On this 150 deal( I just bought it), the insurance company is asking for a checkout by a CFI before my insurance is considered valid. I think it is a good idea even though it is not a whole lot different than the 172N and P models I have flown.

When I rented 172s in CA last year they asked me to get a checkout in almost every tail number 172 because they were R, S, X, Y, Z models with XYZ avionics. I thought that was too much but I guess its their aircrafts and their rules.

I am taking possession of it today after it sitting in the shop for the past 2.5 months. Its like my xmas eve...cant wait to open up my present.....that I paid for heavily. HA
 
ahmad said:
On this 150 deal( I just bought it), the insurance company is asking for a checkout by a CFI before my insurance is considered valid. I think it is a good idea even though it is not a whole lot different than the 172N and P models I have flown.

When I rented 172s in CA last year they asked me to get a checkout in almost every tail number 172 because they were R, S, X, Y, Z models with XYZ avionics. I thought that was too much but I guess its their aircrafts and their rules.

I am taking possession of it today after it sitting in the shop for the past 2.5 months. Its like my xmas eve...cant wait to open up my present.....that I paid for heavily. HA
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Again, what is a "checkout" on a 150? I get it for the rental company to check you out with someone that represents them, but in that case the checkout would be defined by the company. What does checkout mean to the insurance company? My insurance once stipulated flying x hours with a CFI before solo and then y hours before taking passengers, but "checkout" isn't a defined term.

I guess since you'd be paying and directing the CFI, you could define checkout any way you want to.
 
Salty said:
"Signed off"? What the heck does that mean? It's not an FAA thing, so the insurance company has to define it. "Sign off" doesn't convey much meaning.
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Having seen a fairly representative number of policies that have dual requirements, I can almost guarantee he wasn't quoting the policy requirement verbatim.
 
First, congrats on getting the plane. That is a big deal.

As you'll come to understand, the insurance company is not limited by what the FARs say.

Of course, you're not required to have insurance either, so... like a lot of things in life, if you want their piece of paper, you will jump through their hoops.
If you don't want to jump through their hoops, thats fine, you just don't get their paper.

There were posts on here in the past about the insurance companies requiring pilots to have an annual FAA Medical when BasicMed would have covered their flying. Not required by the FAA, but they wanted that piece of paper (and the coverage that went with it of course), so they did the annual medicals.
 
kaiser said:
One of my clubs requires a checkout on each tail number (we have multiple 172s). I think it’s an insurance requirement.
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That is nuts.

Local FBO has mainly Ms and one SP, but single check out for all 172s.
 
kaiser said:
One of my clubs requires a checkout on each tail number (we have multiple 172s). I think it’s an insurance requirement.
Click to expand...
Wow! And I thought MY club was bureaucratic!
 
Pinecone said:
Local FBO has mainly Ms and one SP, but single check out for all 172s.
Click to expand...
My club had a single checkout for all 172s through SP, but when they got an M after a period of years not having anything earlier than an SP, they apparently forgot this and required a separate checkout for it. So I pointed out that I previously had club privileges in that model, and was able to document a previous flight in a club M. This was lucky, because almost all of their 172s were the N when I learned to fly. (I wouldn't have minded going up with an instructor, but the ground-review forms are excruciatingly time-consuming.)

They do require a G1000 checkout for planes with that equipment, which seems reasonable. Other than that, it's up to the pilots to familiarize themselves with the various avionics types in whichever planes they choose to fly.
 
Salty said:
Again, what is a "checkout" on a 150?
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Good question glad you asked,...
might also help to know what model of 150? Also what model 172 you have been flying?

not knowing anything other than you have been flying a 172 things that come to mind at the moment...

Why and how to use the carb heat knob, sure many 172s have them, but some don't, and it is likely more critical in the 150 to use it. Just heard about a Practical test in a 150 discontinued "until you figure out the problem with your engine" due to this. Yes it was just carb ice. I think the DPE was being nice for not failing him.

How to operate the flaps, Manual flaps, different electrical switches, Flap failure modes, failure to retract scenarios.

Go around scenarios especially with flaps extended.

Performance, How close can you figure and match the book performance numbers. it can be more critical than a 172, since you are almost always near fully loaded.

Fuel Management, minimum fuel levels.

Alternator vs Generator, 12v vs 24 volt systems.

Weight and Balance

New airplane to you, required paper work. You would be surprised how many new owners don't have the AROW documents in their airplane when I do checkouts, to the point I now ask when I schedule the appointment.

that just my quick list, what else?

of course if you do your homework this checkout can go pretty quick.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Our FBO requires a checkout in each model. The lower powered 150 is not going to perform as well as the 172, and we'd like the pilot to understand that and be prepared for it. It's a company policy, not an FAA requirement.
Click to expand...

One possible reason:

Some of the FBO’s planes might be privately-owned leasebacks, in which case they’d have separate insurance policies each requiring a checkout.
 
Half Fast said:
One possible reason:

Some of the FBO’s planes might be privately-owned leasebacks, in which case they’d have separate insurance policies each requiring a checkout.
Click to expand...
Not in this case. Our company owns two of the five airplanes, two are leased from another nearby FBO, and one is owned by the son of the FBO owners who is also an employee.

The owners are conservative in business operations, emphasizing safety and detailed record-keeping.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Not in this case. Our company owns two of the five airplanes, two are leased from another nearby FBO, and one is owned by the son of the FBO owners who is also an employee.

The owners are conservative in business operations, emphasizing safety and detailed record-keeping.
Click to expand...


Still, that’s 3 different owners, 3 different insurance policies, and each likely requires a checkout. Simplest policy is just to require a checkout in everything.
 
I've been fortunate to fly aircraft where all that was needed for insurance was approval by the person in charge of the operations. For instance, I was insured to instruct in single engine seaplanes with a total of about three total hours of float plane time. (The chief of operations was also a DPE.) I took it on myself to get more experience before I did, but it wasn't required. Coverage to fly the Pawnee was the same. If the operation director thinks you're good to go, you're good to go - as there's no way you can do that dual anyway. (That was about 500 hours of Pawnee time ago.)
 
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