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Give me 7 days at Oshkosh every year or 5 days at Johnson Creek and I am good for the next 360 days of hard work..
Employer-provided sick time
- Thread starter BrianR
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Give me 7 days at Oshkosh every year or 5 days at Johnson Creek and I am good for the next 360 days of hard work..
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
I have been "Self Employed" for 30 years.....
What is this paid sick days, paid personal days, paid vacation stuff
My wife and I run a business that employs 9 people besides ourselves. When I turned 60 earlier this year, we took our first two week vacation since 1990. While we were gone, the total revenue generated was approximately 40% of normal, but expenses were about 80%. (some variable costs were down but rent goes on). So instead of getting paid while not working, it wound up costing us about $20k lost income on top of all vacation expenses. That is why we don't take many vacations.
When my employees take vacation, I reduce scheduled workload so my revenue goes down then too. But they still get full pay.
alaskaflyer
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Alaskaflyer
I read an article a little while back about a small trend in tech where unlimited paid leave is offered, along with very specific (high) performance expectations. It was intriguing - at least for highly motivated professionals.
That aside, I would be perfectly happy if my employer gave me a raise equivilant to the potential working hours contained in my paid leave days, and then went forward with only unpaid leave. I think I'd come out ahead (and if I chose to forfeit salary to take a lot of leave that would be fine too
)
That aside, I would be perfectly happy if my employer gave me a raise equivilant to the potential working hours contained in my paid leave days, and then went forward with only unpaid leave. I think I'd come out ahead (and if I chose to forfeit salary to take a lot of leave that would be fine too
)
I read an article a little while back about a small trend in tech where unlimited paid leave is offered, along with very specific (high) performance expectations. It was intriguing - at least for highly motivated professionals.
That aside, I would be perfectly happy if my employer gave me a raise equivilant to the potential working hours contained in my paid leave days, and then went forward with only unpaid leave. I think I'd come out ahead (and if I chose to forfeit salary to take a lot of leave that would be fine too
Don't you work for the U.S. Dept of the Interior..
alaskaflyer
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Alaskaflyer
Don't you work for the U.S. Dept of the Interior..
Sure do. And Congress could follow through with my little scenario...Dan Benishek are you listening?
Not only would I come out ahead but after an initial investment in increased costs I'd wager the taxpayer would too, long term. Maybe. I know a lot of people who retire with a lot of unused sick leave on the books.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
i'd pretty happily take a pay cut for summers off.
Not at all. I don't lie to my employer, I just tell them I am taking sick leave. If I used it as quick as I earned it I would have a morality issue. But like I said life is too short to miss the small things.
denverpilot
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Jack Spectre
Line Up and Wait
That's what the last two employers I've worked for have done.
Base vacation for new employees is 10 days, plus 5 days for "sick" time but if you don't use them for sick days you can use them as normal vacation.
If you use a day, nobody cares if you are sick or just lazy. It's your day.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Thought about teaching?
the 2nd US pilot who earned a World Soaring Championship was a high school english teacher. But I know that only the lousy lazy teachers teach just so they can get summers off.
denverpilot
Tied Down
On I never insinuated that. I was serious. Most teachers travel, are smarter than the average Joe, and do really nifty things all of us should have time to do in their time off. AD they get paid badly for putting up with other people's ankle-biters.
Everskyward
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A woman in ops just announced she was going back to school to get her teaching degree. I told her she would probably enjoy dealing with little kids better than big kids....AD they get paid badly for putting up with other people's ankle-biters.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
this is the dilbert cartoon up on the wall of the guy who works next to me.
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-12-03/
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-12-03/
TMetzinger
Final Approach
120 hours DTO (that's the ten federal holidays plus 5 personal/sick/whatever).
4 hours of vacation every two week pay period, or 104 hours a year, with the amount of earned vacation going up as you stay with the company. DTO is, as I said, use or lose). Vacation caps out based on years of service too - I think it's 240 to start and then goes up to 360 max.
4 hours of vacation every two week pay period, or 104 hours a year, with the amount of earned vacation going up as you stay with the company. DTO is, as I said, use or lose). Vacation caps out based on years of service too - I think it's 240 to start and then goes up to 360 max.
Ken Ibold
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We have 80 hours of vacation time, and then 80 hours of personal time. The personal time is intended to include sick leave as well as time to take care of things that cannot be scheduled for off hours, such as doctors appointments, parent-teacher conferences, that kind of thing. Unused personal leave rolls, so then if you get REALLY sick, you might have massive amounts of paid time off.
One method we have for limiting abuse is that everyone has a utilization goal in terms of time billed to a project vs total time paid. So if your utilization goal is, say, 85 percent, there's not much room for screwing around unproductively or milking the hours off.
One method we have for limiting abuse is that everyone has a utilization goal in terms of time billed to a project vs total time paid. So if your utilization goal is, say, 85 percent, there's not much room for screwing around unproductively or milking the hours off.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
--
True story:
Years ago we implemented some new fangled internal e-mail, or phone messaging, or timekeeping, or something, I forget exactly what it was. We were sent to an offsite training facility for a day to learn all the ins and outs of the new system. There were maybe 8-10 of us in the class, including our HR lady.
Towards the end of the day, she made the comment that we would be able to come in and work on Saturday to make up for the time lost at the training class. We all laughed. And then we all noticed that she wasn't laughing, so we stopped. She was serious. So we all laughed harder and told her to have fun on Saturday - then we left.
jhausch
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jhausch
Just remembered something I want to throw in to the discussion: The company I worked* for has allowed us to donate/transfer PTO to workers in chemo. Pretty awesome, eh?
*(I still work with this company, but am no longer on the payroll)
*(I still work with this company, but am no longer on the payroll)
Everskyward
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We did this once too for someone who was having both medical and financial issues.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
our company allows old employees who don't take time off to sell back some of their vacation once or twice a year. i wish they'd set up a vacation market so i could buy some of it from the geezers who don't go anywhere.
kkoran
Pattern Altitude
Do you tell them why you are taking sick leave? Or, do you just tell them you are taking sick leave and they assume you are doing it in accordance with the rules?
I don' see what difference it makes i you used it a quickly as you earned or not.
DogDaddy
Pre-takeoff checklist
Paid sick days are a form of insurance that reimburses you for up to a certain number of days' wages should you be unable to come in due to illness.
Compare it to car insurance or homeowner's insurance. You pay premiums year after year, but if you're like me and never have had any accidents, or if no one ever falls on your property and sues you, you are not entitled to receive any money back from the insurance company. If you're coverage is $10,000 and you have no claims this year, that does not mean you'll be covered for $20,000 next year.
Compare it to car insurance or homeowner's insurance. You pay premiums year after year, but if you're like me and never have had any accidents, or if no one ever falls on your property and sues you, you are not entitled to receive any money back from the insurance company. If you're coverage is $10,000 and you have no claims this year, that does not mean you'll be covered for $20,000 next year.
My job it really doesn't matter, if I need a day, the bosses tell us, you do what you gotta do. When the bosses call in sick for superbowl Sunday, it sets a precident. Is it ok for high ups in corporations just decide they don't want to go in, so they don't. No sick leave, no vacation. You can think it unethical if you want, but that's the way it is.
BrianR
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That's similar to how I look at it. To be clear, my initial rant was not not about folks who have minor, but legitimate, illnesses. I agree people with colds and coughs probably get better faster if they take a day off and rest, and they don't spread their viruses in the hospital environment.
It was in reference to those who are just seeking additional paid time off when they are not ill, and use sick time to accomplish it, saving their PTO for vacations and such.
guardrail
Pre-takeoff checklist
Forgive me, but how is taking sick leave when you're not sick not lying? By telling them you are taking sick leave are you not insinuating that you're sick? Why not take normal vacation time? In my eyes precident and policy are two different things, sort of the if all your friends were going to jump off the bridge...
Edit, I understand it's pretty typical. My original question was whether you had a morality issue with it, which you answered. We're all different but I couldn't do that.
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EppyGA
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I had 10 weeks saved up when I took my early retirement. The extra dollars helped.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Some of the excessive foreign vacation time is because of tax laws that make money raises of dubious value so extra compensation is dolled out in time off.
jtheune
Ejection Handle Pulled
Part of it is that as knowledge workers we tend to excise out brains much more then our backs. Would you complain about a warehouse worker taking a sick day off because of back pain/strain? Knowledge workers need some time to decompress as well. Mental Health days are not a usual thing for knowledge workers.
guardrail
Pre-takeoff checklist
I suppose that's one view. Another is that Knowledge workers are generally paid more than warehouse workers and are in a more compensating environment, generally nicer work digs, breaks, heat/a-c, etc, etc. I still see sick time as just that, some companies have started the "personal day" in lieu of sick day which is a mental day, but calling it a sick day is inappropriate IMO.
As a manager it was a peeve of mine, but there were far bigger things to worry about so I never made a big deal of it. I just find it interesting how some people feel about it vs. others.
I'm the guy that walked into a gas station to tell the clerk his pump was set at $.35 rather than $3.50 then waited while he worked it out so I could pay him for my fill-up. The folks taking sick days to go to the beach strike me as the line of folks that filled up for $5 and never mentioned anything...
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jtheune
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I guess it boils down to how you define "sick"
DeeG
Cleared for Takeoff
I took 430 hours vacation this year. We work 10 hour shifts, so that's only 43 days. Last year I took closer to 600 hours off. I usually take every September off (after Labor Day, as that is a 'blacked out' three day weekend that you cannot take vacation time on). Keeps me from going batty. Currently saving up the $$ so we can take a 5 week long motorcycle trip through Europe.
alaskaflyer
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Alaskaflyer
Since we are morphing from sick leave to vacation time:
Some people want the $ Some people want the time. My personal opinion flipped a few years ago and I would rather maximize my time off instead of earning more. I always take the option for comp time over extra $ and if it suits me I will ask for leave without pay if I need it for a trip, though I haven't in a while since as a government employee I've already traded income for a liberal leave policy and have about what I need. I agree with denverpilot. Americans can make snarky comments about much of the rest of the First World but in my opinion they have vacation about right (though some probably go a bit overboard.)
Some people want the $ Some people want the time. My personal opinion flipped a few years ago and I would rather maximize my time off instead of earning more. I always take the option for comp time over extra $ and if it suits me I will ask for leave without pay if I need it for a trip, though I haven't in a while since as a government employee I've already traded income for a liberal leave policy and have about what I need. I agree with denverpilot. Americans can make snarky comments about much of the rest of the First World but in my opinion they have vacation about right (though some probably go a bit overboard.)
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Pjsmith
Line Up and Wait
Is his behavior immoral? I used to manage a lot of people, many who would occasionally call off sick for a "mental health" day. Most weren't generally slackers. I was unofficially ok with it. When it became a problem with a particular employee, I altered the workflow so that as much of the work as possible from the missed day was there when they returned. Most got the gist quick. I based this model on my own experience of never being able to take all available vacations/PTO because my work is such that I rarely have a "backup"
Ghery
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Ghery Pettit
Dilbert is not a comic. Dilbert is a documentary.
And I've worked for that pointy hair boss.
Silvaire
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I work for a large corporation, we earn 8 hrs sick per month with a bank maximum of 6 months and forfeiture of bank upon separation. For years the company tried all sorts of disciplinary tactics to try and stem sick leave usage but never with any success. Recently they made an agreement that if you retire early your sick leave bank can be used to pay the cost of bridge medical coverage prior to reaching the age of 65.
That seems to have made a difference.
I think the concern over usage is mostly productivity rather than cost because when times were tough and the company was asking for concessions they gave presentations in which they stated that we cost them x-amount of dollars per hour and that number was clearly predicated on the assumption that every employee would use every hour of sick leave awarded - which has never been the case.
That seems to have made a difference.
I think the concern over usage is mostly productivity rather than cost because when times were tough and the company was asking for concessions they gave presentations in which they stated that we cost them x-amount of dollars per hour and that number was clearly predicated on the assumption that every employee would use every hour of sick leave awarded - which has never been the case.
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Bob Noel
I got in a little trouble for saying that management should be required to demonstrate that they understand Dilbert cartoons and can explain them.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think there needs to be some incentive for people to NOT call in sick. If you give them sick days but they don't roll over or get paid out, why would they not call in sick? They see their coworkers getting paid just as much for doing less work, after all.
I'm in a great situation, IMO - 3 weeks of vacation plus an additional week of sick/personal time. I asked if I could work 40 hours in 4 days and take Fridays off, and that sort of thing, and was told "Well, we really don't even keep track of any of this. Just do your job, don't abuse it, and you can do things however you want." And because my employer will do such nice things for me, I will (and do) bust my ass for them.
I think some more employers could learn from that, and stop having such an adversarial relationship with their employees. Make it a place that people really want to work, and most won't abuse their privileges. Those that do can find work elsewhere.
I'm in a great situation, IMO - 3 weeks of vacation plus an additional week of sick/personal time. I asked if I could work 40 hours in 4 days and take Fridays off, and that sort of thing, and was told "Well, we really don't even keep track of any of this. Just do your job, don't abuse it, and you can do things however you want." And because my employer will do such nice things for me, I will (and do) bust my ass for them.
I think some more employers could learn from that, and stop having such an adversarial relationship with their employees. Make it a place that people really want to work, and most won't abuse their privileges. Those that do can find work elsewhere.
guardrail
Pre-takeoff checklist
It's a matter of opinion, I was just curious of his. To me, it's a morality issue unless you are verifiably sick, otherwise they would call it a sick/mental health day (which some companies do). To call in a "sick" day, I would expect to be sick. They give you vacation for mental health recovery IMO. We're all wired differently though.
I managed a lot of people in my previous job, my view was the same then but honestly time off was the least of my worries, if people were getting their work done I really didn't care, I didn't rate them or review them any differently. The ones that abused it generally weren't the strongest workers either.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
Not really. The sick time is calculated as part of your compensation package, and you can bet they calculate it as a "cost" as if you'd used all of it.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
I've been in that situation before - it's great until you get an HR department.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's the situation that keeps me here... Should an HR department be required and wreck it, I'd start looking elsewhere.