Emotional Support Animal and FAA Class 3

Tantalum said:
Hey Guys.. what is the FAA's policy (if any) on emotional support animals (NOT a guide dog or actual seeing eye dog or something like that)

Looking at the forms and paperwork for CLASS 3 I don't see anything on there https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...ces/aam/ame/guide/media/applicant history.pdf

So.. non issue?
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Wait a minute? Can we have emotional support animals in the cockpit!?


My airmen medical says this Chimp gets to ride jumpseat...

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I’ll jump right down to Rent-a-Peacock and meet you at the airport!

A little more seriously, you can carry just about anybody or anything in a GA aircraft, subject to weight and balance issues, and drunks are specifically disallowed. Otherwise, common sense prevails.. -Skip
 
I think the premise of the question was if the FAA gets wind that you have an emotional support animal (which is a largely unregulated concept as opposed to service animals) will that be seen as evidence of a mental health condition that could be problematic for a medical. My guess is if you have a letter from your doctor that you’re using to keep an ESA (many landlords require some kind of letter or documentation to allow an animal to live in an otherwise pet-free building) that explicitly mentions a diagnosis and the FAA got their hands on it they would look twice at that and potentially see that as an official diagnosis. That is of course just my speculation.
 
AKiss20 said:
I think the premise of the question was if the FAA gets wind that you have an emotional support animal (which is a largely unregulated concept as opposed to service animals) will that be seen as evidence of a mental health condition that could be problematic for a medical.
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Unregulated, indeed. I still get a kick out of this guy, who was annoyed at the menagerie of animals getting brought onto planes under the umbrella of 'emotional support'.

So he successfully registered an emotional support beehive.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...registers-beehive-as-emotional-support-animal
 
90
 
AKiss20 said:
I think the premise of the question was if the FAA gets wind that you have an emotional support animal (which is a largely unregulated concept as opposed to service animals) will that be seen as evidence of a mental health condition that could be problematic for a medical. My guess is if you have a letter from your doctor that you’re using to keep an ESA (many landlords require some kind of letter or documentation to allow an animal to live in an otherwise pet-free building) that explicitly mentions a diagnosis and the FAA got their hands on it they would look twice at that and potentially see that as an official diagnosis. That is of course just my speculation.
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correct. So I guess it depends. Looking at the full questionnaire for the class 3 medical it indicates diagnosable mental conditions like anxiety, etc

An emotional support animal for diagnosed anxiety, probably a problem, one just because you get a little lonely sometimes but don't have diagnosis strictly doesn't sound like it would be an issue

yes, most landlords will require some type of letter, so I guess it depends what is in that letter

The unregulated premise, is a little ridiculous. What's also a little ridiculous though is the cycle that this creates.. if you've already paid a deposit and have taken ownership of an animal then I'm not sure what getting a letter or denying somebody's right to have a dog does.. if it attacks or bites someone is it not the owner who's responsible? If it trashes the apartment then you have a deposit

The whole thing just seems dumb
 
GRG55 said:
Strikes me this part could apply to a lot of addicts that hang around this joint... :cool:
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They can include it under the "anus" question.. "do you post on PoA?"
 
Seems like someone's "friend" wants to have an animal in a rental where they are not allowed, and is wondering if there are any consequences to their medical by calling it an "emotional support animal".
 
This has to be one of the curious and strange questions about the FAA medical process yet.
 
It's a genuine question, you hear and see more and more people bringing dogs in restaurants, etc, I'm curious what these folks say they need the support for, and if it correlates to an actual DSM condition.. and if any of these people are pilots what the implication is

My complex allows dogs, luckily. But when I worked in real estate I was surprised how many places allow nothing, or only cats (which, in my opinion smell much worse and leave a permanent "aroma")
 
Tantalum said:
But when I worked in real estate I was surprised how many places allow nothing, or only cats
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my partner and I moved a few months ago and we wanted a place that allowed dogs so we can get one in the near future. I would estimate maybe 10% of available apartments allowed dogs (for anywhere from $50 to $200/month extra rent) and many landlords would require “meeting the dog” for approval. We thankfully found a building that is very pet friendly. In many cities the demand for housing is so high that it’s basically a pure seller’s market and landlords have no real need to appeal to people with pets and potentially deal with the associated issues (possible damage and noise/neighbor conflicts).
 
Everskyward said:
Seems like someone's "friend" wants to have an animal in a rental where they are not allowed, and is wondering if there are any consequences to their medical by calling it an "emotional support animal".
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That was my thought as well. In the short-term vacation rental business, renters are notorious for declaring their pets to be ESAs, knowing that things get murky for owners when you step into task of sorting out service animals from ESAs from pets. I took the high road on the issue with our property and just allow dogs, so the cheaters don't have to play the game of kitting out Fido in fake working gear.
 
It comes down to integrity. I know a fellow that lost his job at a major airline and came real close to losing all his certificates because he lied about emotional support animal needs to non rev on his companies metal. People that lie about emotional support needs are selfish entitled pricks.

if someone truly needs an animal around to keep their **** together there are a lot of things, not just flying, they should not be doing.
 
AKiss20 said:
for anywhere from $50 to $200/month extra rent
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La Quinta allows dogs, I was talking to the hotel manager up in SLO last time and the guy told me that they've never had a dog or cat ruin a hotel room, but have had plenty of people play loud music, smoke, or destroy the furniture. Charging extra for an animal seems like double dipping. You've got a lease document and the security. Plus, if your dog doesn't cause any damage it's not like you get that extra monthly amount back. But it's a battle not worth fighting

Brad Z said:
renters are notorious for declaring their pets to be ESAs
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It's totally abused. Most of the annoying tiny toy dogs I meet in the park are some form of emotional support; it's gross. How many people say "just tell them he's an emotional support animal, they have to let them do 'X' " <-infuriating. But it kind of speaks to society as a whole.. we create rules and make exceptions for people that deserve them, unfortunately everyone ends up trying to funnel through the holes to get the special treatment they perceive they have
 
Tarheelpilot said:
It comes down to integrity. I know a fellow that lost his job at a major airline and came real close to losing all his certificates because he lied about emotional support animal needs to non rev on his companies metal. People that lie about emotional support needs are selfish entitled pricks.

if someone truly needs an animal around to keep their **** together there are a lot of things, not just flying, they should not be doing.
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You're not wrong. I feel the same way about handicap parking stall abuse. To date, I've never actually seen a disabled person using a parking stall.. what you'll tend to find is an overweight person in a lifted F350. Guy, if you can climb in and out of that monster truck you don't need to be taking that spot from someone else. In CA it's (apparently) very easy to get one, you'll see people park in the handicap spot at the zoo then walking 10 miles throughout the park

I questioned someone once about it actually.. totally healthy 20 something year old "it's my mom's car and she's handicapped" <- okay, well, is your mom with you now? "No I'm running errands for her" .. then why are taking the spot from someone who actually might need it?!

(most) people suck
 
AKiss20 said:
I think the premise of the question was if the FAA gets wind that you have an emotional support animal (which is a largely unregulated concept as opposed to service animals) will that be seen as evidence of a mental health condition that could be problematic for a medical.
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Geez I sorta hope so. This ESA thing is getting a *little* outa hand.
 
AKiss20 said:
my partner and I moved a few months ago and we wanted a place that allowed dogs so we can get one in the near future. I would estimate maybe 10% of available apartments allowed dogs (for anywhere from $50 to $200/month extra rent) and many landlords would require “meeting the dog” for approval. We thankfully found a building that is very pet friendly. In many cities the demand for housing is so high that it’s basically a pure seller’s market and landlords have no real need to appeal to people with pets and potentially deal with the associated issues (possible damage and noise/neighbor conflicts).
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We love dogs, and I would love to be able to allow dogs in our rental. Unfortunately, many times it's not the dog but the owner's lack of care that spoils it. When you don't have your dog trained not to tear things up, or you don't clean up after your dog, or find it easier top allow your dog to destroy the yard rather than take it for walks and exercise, then there's a problem that will have a big impact on the landlord's property value and costs. Getting a few bucks a month in extra rent won't help much when you move out and I have to have the wood floors refinished and the back yard is bare dirt. The house next door to our rental went up for sale. The back yard looks like a construction site, and I suspect they took a pretty big hit in the sale price. Even our back yard looks a whole lot better since our beloved pup departed this world last year. It was worth it to us to have the yard looking like it did; his company was more than adequate compensation. But... it's MY house.

As for cats... I have lost track of how many houses we've walked into where the smell of cat pee drives you right back out the door. It's tough or impossible to get rid of, and we just walk away from those houses.

I keep these facts in mind when we put the "NO PETS" clause in the lease, and get snippy emails from pet owners. Hey, it's my house... if you want to have your dog or cat or peacock or whatever in your house, go for it. Go buy your own, it will cost you a lot less than the rent I charge anyway. Or there are probably a hundred places for rent that already smell like cat pee.
 
Tantalum said:
La Quinta allows dogs, I was talking to the hotel manager up in SLO last time and the guy told me that they've never had a dog or cat ruin a hotel room, but have had plenty of people play loud music, smoke, or destroy the furniture. Charging extra for an animal seems like double dipping. You've got a lease document and the security. Plus, if your dog doesn't cause any damage it's not like you get that extra monthly amount back. But it's a battle not worth fighting
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To be clear, I never claimed that the extra rent is justified or makes sense, just reporting what the facts on the ground seem to be for my neck of the woods. That being said, it is their right to charge that assuming the animal in question is not a true service animal under the ADA. Pet ownership comes with financial liabilities, extra rent is just another one. If I can't afford an extra $50/mo in rent, I probably can't afford to keep a dog.

DaleB said:
Unfortunately, many times it's not the dog but the owner's lack of care that spoils it. When you don't have your dog trained not to tear things up, or you don't clean up after your dog, or find it easier top allow your dog to destroy the yard rather than take it for walks and exercise, then there's a problem that will have a big impact on the landlord's property value and costs. Getting a few bucks a month in extra rent won't help much when you move out and I have to have the wood floors refinished and the back yard is bare dirt. The house next door to our rental went up for sale.
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That's fine. I don't begrudge landlords from making that choice, it's their building and their decision. While it does inconvenience me and my partner, we don't have a constitutional or statutory right to have a non-service dog in our living space and I recognize that. Ultimately we ended up in a great apartment so I am happy :)

JCranford said:
Geez I sorta hope so. This ESA thing is getting a *little* outa hand.
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The "ESA thing" is getting out of hand due to people who don't want to own up that their pet is just a pet and use the nebulous concept of ESAs to get what they want, to the detriment of people who truly benefit from various forms of ESAs.


As to the actual question of ESAs and third class medicals, in my mind we shouldn't encourage the FAA to take an even more draconian stance on mental health issues than they already do. All that will do is cause more pilots to avoid seeking help.
 
AKiss20 said:
...In my mind we shouldn't encourage the FAA to take an even more draconian stance on mental health issues than they already do. All that will do is cause more pilots to avoid seeking help.
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When you answer YES to something on a medical form...




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Lindberg said:
That's called a "pet."
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Yep, I miss my bird when I'm gone too, but I don't force the issue. If we're flying the Navion (or driving) she's happy to come along provided we're going somewhere bird friendly. It's amazing that when people say "pet friendly" they really mean "dog friendly." Nevermind that my little parrot isn't likely to cause anywhere near the issues a dog would. If we're flying commercial, she goes to the boarder.
 
Skip Miller said:
A little more seriously, you can carry just about anybody or anything in a GA aircraft, subject to weight and balance issues, and drunks are specifically disallowed.
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Makes no sense ... we are talking about emotional support and then say drunks are not allowed (which I firmly support). But then during the lockdowns the liquor stores were deemed to be essential as folks needed help with their emotional support via Doctor Captain Morgan or his assistance Doctor Jim Beam.

We make a scary movie about snakes on a plane and then allow them because some folks need to cuddle up to a snake to calm themselves down ... makes no sense.
 
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