Emergency vs. Urgency - Whats the diff?

[Pi1otguy]

Whats the difference between declaring an emergency and declaring an urgency condition? As defined in the Pilot/Controller Glossary can an urgency condition even exist without being an emergency? Does ATC make a distinction?

For example:
1. While being vectored for traffic a non-flying diabetic passenger tells the pilot he is getting "low" and guesstimates he will be in trouble in an hour or two.
-Probably an emergency, but could be an urgency as it is a distress condition waiting to happen in the future.

2. One night you are on top of an overcast layer and notice an alternator failure. You're uncertain how long the battery will last and you need your navs to fly the approach (no hand held gps or loc).
-Emergency, obviously.

 

[poadeleted20]

Whats the difference between declaring an emergency and declaring an urgency condition?

Nothing.

As defined in the Pilot/Controller Glossary can an urgency condition even exist without being an emergency?

EMERGENCY- A distress or an urgency condition.

Since "Urgency" and "Distress" are both defined as an "Emergency," you cannot have an urgency condition without it being an emergency.

Does ATC make a distinction?

No distinction to be made. "Urgency" is one of the two forms of "Emergency," the other being "Distress." They do, however, make a distinction between "Pan-Pan-Pan" (Urgency - "A condition of being concerned about safety and of requiring timely but not immediate assistance; a potential distress condition.") and "MAYDAY-MAYDAY-MAYDAY" (Distress - "A condition of being threatened by serious and/or imminent danger and of requiring immediate assistance").

1. While being vectored for traffic a non-flying diabetic passenger tells the pilot he is getting "low" and guesstimates he will be in trouble in an hour or two.
-Probably an emergency, but could be an urgency as it is a distress condition waiting to happen in the future.

Clearly this is an emergency situation, as it meets the "urgency" criteria in the P/CG, but since immediate assistance is not yet required, it is not yet a distress condition requiring a "MAYDAY" call.

2. One night you are on top of an overcast layer and notice an alternator failure. You're uncertain how long the battery will last and you need your navs to fly the approach (no hand held gps or loc).
-Emergency, obviously.

It's an emergency for sure, but is it a Distress (MAYDAY) situation or an urgency (PAN) situation? For me, in my Tiger, probably a MAYDAY, as I have only minutes before all the lights go out. If I'm flying a Cirrus with a dual bus electrical system and extra battery/alternator, probably a PAN.

 

[MauleSkinner]

The difference is basically up to the pilot. Personally, I kind of look at it as a "low fuel" vs "minimum fuel" situation. Low fuel, get outta my way, I'm landing first. Minimum fuel, you can land first as long as you don't delay my landing.

Of course, I will also take NO chances with the health of my passengers. If my diabetic passenger thought he could last an hour or two, but couldn't guarantee it to me, it would probably qualify as an emergency for me, but not having tremendous knowledge of the condition, I'd have to consult with him as to an appropriate course of action. I guess technically that would be an "urgency" situation as far as the definitions are concerned...we need to deal with it now, but it has the potential to escalate.

Fly safe!

David

 

[stingray]

In one you have to pee and the other you don't.

Dan

 

[purdue1014]

FWIW, a family friend who was ATC for 21 years, 18 being ORD TWR, has told me that in his experience, a "Pan-Pan-Pan," was treated as an emergency with a pilot who was afraid to use the "E-word."

 

[Dave Siciliano]

In RVN, a friend on the AvSig board that flew Hueys related how he had taken several hits and was returning to base. He called it an emergency because he wasn't sure how bad the damage was and was told he was emergency number three; to standby. As he flew toward the base, he listened while one guy landed that stated he had an on board fire; the second had taken several hits and the aircraft commander was badly wounded.

It's all relative.

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

In RVN, a friend on the AvSig board that flew Hueys related how he had taken several hits and was returning to base. He called it an emergency because he wasn't sure how bad the damage was and was told he was emergency number three; to standby. As he flew toward the base, he listened while one guy landed that stated he had an on board fire; the second had taken several hits and the aircraft commander was badly wounded.

It's all relative.

Best,

Dave

Dave:

When you were flying in RVN, how often (if ever?) did you have 2 pilots on board? I.E., if Aircraft Commander was inop, was aircraft and other occupants in grave peril?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Dave:

When you were flying in RVN, how often (if ever?) did you have 2 pilots on board? I.E., if Aircraft Commander was inop, was aircraft and other occupants in grave peril?

The Huey and Cobra always had two aboard in my unit. One could fly it for maintenance checks, etc. but two usually went and two on all missions. In the LOHs--OH-58 and OH-6, one pilot. The cobra only carried two. In the Huey, depending on model, it could carry about five or six fully armed guys, usually had a crew chief and gunner also. I flew air cav, which was an aerial recon mission. In general, we didn't carry troops or insert them. We looked for bad guys, equipment, movement signs, etc. and called in air support if need be. We did have a reaction platoon we could insert at one time, but toward the end of the conflict, that was disbanded as American units were being rotated home.

Dual controls in all the birds; so, damage would dictate flyability.

Best,

Dave

 

[Henning]

Whats the difference between declaring an emergency and declaring an urgency condition? As defined in the Pilot/Controller Glossary can an urgency condition even exist without being an emergency? Does ATC make a distinction?

For example:
1. While being vectored for traffic a non-flying diabetic passenger tells the pilot he is getting "low" and guesstimates he will be in trouble in an hour or two.
-Probably an emergency, but could be an urgency as it is a distress condition waiting to happen in the future.

2. One night you are on top of an overcast layer and notice an alternator failure. You're uncertain how long the battery will last and you need your navs to fly the approach (no hand held gps or loc).
-Emergency, obviously.

There's basically two "Emergency" calls: Mayday Mayday Mayday- (distress)-Imminent threat to loss of life or property, and Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan (pronounced Pahn and indicates urgency) which means you have a situation developing that without attention in short order may very well turn into a Mayday and you would like to avoid that.

Both the situations you list I would consider pan-pan situations, but that is irrellevent to ATC, their actions will be the same as with a mayday call, i.e. "What do you need from us...?"