Embry-Riddle vs FBO/local

G

Grant Powell

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
3
Display Name
Display name:
rakma
Hello, i’m a freshman at ERAU Prescott. I eagerly enrolled here with the intentions to get a degree (aeronautical science) as well as acquire all my hours and certifications to become an airline pilot. Being an airline pilot has interested me for a while and i made my decision to pursue a career in the airlines in my sophomore/junior year of high school because I am fascinated with flight, the lifestyle interests me, I have family and friends in the industry, and of course it can pay well down the line.

The 2.5 months I’ve been at Riddle so far have not lived up to expectations in the slightest. I know the school is very accredited and I’ve heard a lot of good things… really only from staff/alumni/people associated with the school. The living situation, food, campus life, college experience, etc is awful. I knew before hand this wasn’t a party school and wasn’t expecting that. I’m at Riddle to get a education and learn to fly/get my certification and hours.

After being here and not feeling entirely welcome, being enrolled in all classes I feel take no skill to teach or to learn (freshman classes are kinda like this i know) I decided to start looking around at other options, reading about more student experiences here, talking to pilots I meet at phoenix sky harbor and DIA, on my way home to Denver, I’m starting to think that Riddle may not be the place for me.

I HAVE YET TO START ANY FLIGHT OR BE ASSIGNED AND INSTRUCTOR. I’ve reached out to my academic adviser and the flight coordinator and just been met with “you’re on the list to be assigned an instructor.” “You’ll get an email when you’ve been assigned an instructor”

-I’ve read about students not being able to finish Riddles flight program in the projected time and i already feel behind.
-With the shortage of instructors for their students i wonder if there’s a reason Riddle grads don’t chose to fly for their Riddle for their hours?
-Riddle is very expensive for the schooling. one year here would be more (not accounting for flight cost on either end) than what i would be looking at for four years at MSU Denver.
-The only positive i see at Riddle is the R-ATP certification. but the cost saved in this is more than canceled out by the tuition and flight costs vs other schools.
-Is having Embry-Riddle Graduate and a R-ATP going to matter or give me and advantage getting hired regionally or when i move up to major airlines?

Sorry for the long read but really i just would like some help/opinions/advise on if staying at Riddle or I should explore other options, for example, going back home to Denver, attending MSU (direct partnership with united) and fly out of Centennial airport through ATP or something similar.
 
Last edited:
The R-atp is great, but ur still waiting 4 years to get there, you could get your ratings on 9-12 months if you went fbo/local flight school. And then make those extra 500 in those 3 extra years as a cfi
 
Why didn’t you go to Perdue, North Dakota, or any of the top universities?
 
Clip4 said:
Why didn’t you go to Perdue, North Dakota, or any of the top universities?
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong but ERAU is one of the "top universities" right up there with Purdue, UND, etc. That is the main reason i was/am interested in Riddle
 
1anG said:
The R-atp is great, but ur still waiting 4 years to get there, you could get your ratings on 9-12 months if you went fbo/local flight school. And then make those extra 500 in those 3 extra years as a cfi
Click to expand...
I haven't seen a lot of positive to a R-ATP besides maybe less cost...
 
ERU?

Lolz, or you could get your CPL, a real degree that’ll make money on it own merits and...a house


Grant Powell said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but ERAU is one of the "top universities" right up there with Purdue, UND, etc. That is the main reason i was/am interested in Riddle
Click to expand...

They pay lots of money to run the ads to prove it

Lots ways to get better training for less
 
Go to college and get a degree that will be useful if the pilot thing doesn’t work out. You can find plenty of places to get you licenses.
 
The biggest draw of a college aviation degree is that you can take loans and fly now. They make that part easy, too easy. Obviously it cuts down the hours from the 1500 to 1250 or whatever it is. But damn are you gonna have debt. If mom or dad is paying the bill then go for it.

My advice, get a math, physics,STEM degree. During the summer's try to knock out your PPL and IR. With those degrees you'll get a great job. If you are sure you want to be a pilot rent a cheap place and buy a plane. You'll make enough money to fly a few hours or more every week. This path will take longer but you wint have debt. And when the aviation industry goes bust from some unforeseen event or you lose your medical you are still employable.

I know a guy who works a trades job from early spring to late fall. He saves up cash and will fly about 300hrs this winter when laid off. That will make about 600hrs in about 2.5yrs, no debt and now has PPL, IR, Complex and Commercial. I dont think he will even bother with instructing.
 
Sinistar said:
The biggest draw of a college aviation degree is that you can take loans and fly now. They make that part easy, too easy. Obviously it cuts down the hours from the 1500 to 1250 or whatever it is. But damn are you gonna have debt. If mom or dad is paying the bill then go for it.

My advice, get a math, physics,STEM degree. During the summer's try to knock out your PPL and IR. With those degrees you'll get a great job. If you are sure you want to be a pilot rent a cheap place and buy a plane. You'll make enough money to fly a few hours or more every week. This path will take longer but you wint have debt. And when the aviation industry goes bust from some unforeseen event or you lose your medical you are still employable.

I know a guy who works a trades job from early spring to late fall. He saves up cash and will fly about 300hrs this winter when laid off. That will make about 600hrs in about 2.5yrs, no debt and now has PPL, IR, Complex and Commercial. I dont think he will even bother with instructing.
Click to expand...

Or a community college 2yr RN, as you’re CFIing you can RN and have a good QOL and you’re globally employable x2 and waaaaay less money
 
James331 said:
Or a community college 2yr RN, as you’re CFIing you can RN and have a good QOL and you’re globally employable x2 and waaaaay less money
Click to expand...
Awesome....plus...during the low earning early pilot years you could grab some traveling nurse or other part time nursing gig on you off time...once you get some schedule seniority.
 
Sinistar said:
Awesome....plus...during the low earning early pilot years you could grab some traveling nurse or other part time nursing gig on you off time...once you get some schedule seniority.
Click to expand...

I’ve said it tons before, but the two go together REALLY well.

Especially if you want a degree.
 
Only you can determine if the premium placed on part 141 university programs is worth the R-ATP edge. Personally, I would never pay out-of-state tuition for any American undergraduate education. I had to because that was the penalty for being raised in a colony (a conversation me and my father hashed out a long time ago, and one I have no moral high ground on considering he saved my life by launching me CONUS bound and helping out with my undergrad), but that's water under the bridge at this point. Nevertheless, a penalty I certainly will be able to bypass for my son as a Texas resident, when the time comes. Outside of a couple niches where name-dropping matters, out-of-state/private is just not worth the cost. Furthermore, a degree merely ancillary to checking a box so that a major airline can consider you one day? That's even more of a non-starter for out-of-state tuition imo.

For full disclosure, as a high school senior I quickly wrote off a civilian pilot career as robust enough for me to hang my hat on, based on what attracted me to flying in the first place and the opportunity cost of the alternative (for me, a six figure salary in any other career) . That's my admitted bias, and a result of my assessment of the future with the information and mentorship I had at the time.

Based on the hindsight of Lost Decade (not so much hindsight, since 9/11 happened before I graduated undergrad and before I had any level of qualification for a regional airline), I knew the industry was tanking well in advance of having to pivot vocationally. So I did make the right choice for someone with my bad industry timing. While I don't regret having not pursued the airlines as a man in my 20s, I do regret having gone to college in the manner and duration I did. But I had less choices than you, someone with the lottery ticket of having state residency in the CONUS at the point in time where you graduated high school.

Also for full disclosure, I will probably do like many of my peers, and entertain the airlines as a convenient post military career (it's just a low hanging fruit for my demographic, good bad or indifferent), and if it blows up in my face at least I'm not resetting the clock on my family's financial position or security. But that's not for this thread.

So back to your case. If I were to put my blinders on within the scope of your specific shoes/outlook, then what I would personally do in that hypothetical is:

1)withdraw from that overpriced puppy mill at the end of this semester
2)get my rear back to my home state as a transfer student where I can get a cheap, quick, and easy to grade-inflate education (the only thing that matter is GPA, name doesn't matter, trust me on this),
3)do my ratings on a part 61 basis.

Yes, the financing would be more problematic for the flight training portion of that plan, since it's not going to be as easy to obtain federally backed loans for part 61 the way it's assumed for the part 141 racket. But hey, my $0.02 and what you paid for it.

For me, the savings in hours of the R-ATP, in this environment, just don't pencil out to justify the part 141 route. Especially if you're as grounded and cynical as I am about the short-term nature of an airline's "good times" cycle, and the forever nature of educational debt in this blasted anti-labor and corporatist Country of ours.

I would certainly not continue this process in ERAU. If you have in-state rate access to a part 141 school, maybe I would consider it, if the price is right (most of the time it isn't). Sorry for the long winded response. Hope things work out for you wherever you end up. I was in your shoes not long ago. Life flies quick. Good luck.
 
That's sad, but it sounds like you are perceptive enough to see you are not going to be happy there. It sounds like they really are the pits. I wonder if you have any claim to get any refunds? There are 4 or 5 good universities in Colorado, not aviation as such but have affordable in state tuition. I'd get out of there soon as the semester ends. By the way, a good place to get you pilots licensee is Journeys aviation at Boulder.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
That's sad, but it sounds like you are perceptive enough to see you are not going to be happy there. It sounds like they really are the pits. I wonder if you have any claim to get any refunds? There are 4 or 5 good universities in Colorado, not aviation as such but have affordable in state tuition. I'd get out of there soon as the semester ends. By the way, a good place to get you pilots licensee is Journeys aviation at Boulder.
Click to expand...


You don’t think freemarket pilots make six figures?
 
Either way you’ll need a degree. There’s a million different ways to do it. I went to a 4 year state school and got my bachelor’s in economics and flew at a part 61 school on the side. It was a lot cheaper than going to an aviation college. This way worked for me. On the other hand, if you graduate from an aviation school you can get a restricted ATP with 1000 or 1250 hours and potentially be at a regional quicker which would mean better seniority. If you’re not happy at Riddle and it seems like the advisers don’t really care about you, it may be time to look at other options. I’m a regional captain. PM if you have any questions. Good luck!
 
Don't borrow money for flight training or for a degree.

ERAU is very expensive. When I was there ('86-'89) we were paying around $1,750 per semester for full-time tuition. We thought that was expensive then. I was a CFI before I enrolled so I only did one flight course. If you have a large college fund, or parents who can afford the cost, then it's a very good education. Don't borrow to do it.

One of the things you learn in a collegiate flight program, that isn't listed in the catalog, is the ability to adapt to a training program. This is very important for a professional pilot because that is what you will have to do when you are being paid to succeed in an initial qualification course at an airline or UPT in the military. If you go in expecting them to adapt to you (as a good part 91 flight school will do) you will not succeed. Learn to succeed in the ERAU, UND, MTSU, etc. flight program and you'll do well later on.

Part of the ERAU program is how they assign instructors. Everyone can't start flying the first week of their first semester. Adapt to their system. Do what you are supposed to do. The system will work if you work within it. When I was sent for my 767 type rating they sent me to Flight Safety in Miami and I was stuck there for 41 days/40 nights without any opportunity to go home. I didn't like it, but that was what the job required.
 
The first thing a "top notch" aviation school should do is make the student (and parents) work out a side-by-side example.

Student #1 goes to ERAU and takes loans for 90% of everything. After 4 yrs they graduate with X ratings and endorsements and $$$,$$$ debt and are H hours short of the majors. So they then CFI instead those H hours and eventually start flying for like $33K the first year. Then plot out each years pay for 25yrs. Dont forget that loan payment over the years.

Student #2 Does the 2yr RN degree. Has $$,$$$ in loans. The 3rd year they start flying and get their PPL and then partner or buy a cheap trainer. Then they methodically work up hours and ratings. Let's say it takes them 5yrs longer than the ERAU student.

So the ERAU pilot has 5yrs of seniority but perhaps $220,000 more debt than the RN. But the RN can pull filler nursing hours when not flying so their overall starting salary when flying is higher. They can do this as often as they like.

Seems the 5yrs of seniority will take years and years to finally be ahead with that huge, unforgivable loan and the interest. And just one bad medical or industry shift and it's over or at best not as good as it was.
 
Considered ROTC? That's the only way I made it out of ERAU without an insane amount of student loan debt (only $70k-ish instead of over $200k).

I graduated Daytona Beach but recently toured the Prescott campus when I was considered applying as a flight instructor. They had a pretty badass incentive package when I toured, but naturally it was already gone by the time I finished my CFI. Just go with it until you get an instructor, because once you do things happen fast.

My only real mistake was going back through the Worldwide campus to get a Masters on my own dime a few years ago :loco: Could have done without that extra $35k debt
 
Sinistar said:
The first thing a "top notch" aviation school should do is make the student (and parents) work out a side-by-side example.

Student #1 goes to ERAU and takes loans for 90% of everything. After 4 yrs they graduate with X ratings and endorsements and $$$,$$$ debt and are H hours short of the majors. So they then CFI instead those H hours and eventually start flying for like $33K the first year. Then plot out each years pay for 25yrs. Dont forget that loan payment over the years.

Student #2 Does the 2yr RN degree. Has $$,$$$ in loans. The 3rd year they start flying and get their PPL and then partner or buy a cheap trainer. Then they methodically work up hours and ratings. Let's say it takes them 5yrs longer than the ERAU student.

So the ERAU pilot has 5yrs of seniority but perhaps $220,000 more debt than the RN. But the RN can pull filler nursing hours when not flying so their overall starting salary when flying is higher. They can do this as often as they like.

Seems the 5yrs of seniority will take years and years to finally be ahead with that huge, unforgivable loan and the interest. And just one bad medical or industry shift and it's over or at best not as good as it was.
Click to expand...


Let say it doesn’t, my “program” you’re hitting the job market 2 years earlier and will have hours faster and with a better QOL and less $$ spent. 2 years and your a CPL/RN, probably a CPL before a RN.


Also you don’t NEED a degree for the airlines like before, I know a few folks who got their numbers for a major with no degree, you do need ATP mins and to likely play the regional game, and that’s presuming you want the airlines, lots of money in other areas too in aviation.
 
Grant Powell said:
Hello, my name is Grant, I'm from Denver, and i’m a freshman at ERAU Prescott. I eagerly enrolled here with the intentions to get a degree (aeronautical science) as well as acquire all my hours and certifications to become an airline pilot. Being an airline pilot has interested me for a while and i made my decision to pursue a career in the airlines in my sophomore/junior year of high school because I am fascinated with flight, the lifestyle interests me, I have family and friends in the industry, and of course it can pay well down the line.

The 2.5 months I’ve been at Riddle so far have not lived up to expectations in the slightest. I know the school is very accredited and I’ve heard a lot of good things… really only from staff/alumni/people associated with the school. The living situation, food, campus life, college experience, etc is awful. I knew before hand this wasn’t a party school and wasn’t expecting that. I’m at Riddle to get a education and learn to fly/get my certification and hours.

After being here and not feeling entirely welcome, being enrolled in all classes I feel take no skill to teach or to learn (freshman classes are kinda like this i know) I decided to start looking around at other options, reading about more student experiences here, talking to pilots I meet at phoenix sky harbor and DIA, on my way home to Denver, I’m starting to think that Riddle may not be the place for me.

I HAVE YET TO START ANY FLIGHT OR BE ASSIGNED AND INSTRUCTOR. I’ve reached out to my academic adviser and the flight coordinator and just been met with “you’re on the list to be assigned an instructor.” “You’ll get an email when you’ve been assigned an instructor”

-I’ve read about students not being able to finish Riddles flight program in the projected time and i already feel behind.
-With the shortage of instructors for their students i wonder if there’s a reason Riddle grads don’t chose to fly for their Riddle for their hours?
-Riddle is very expensive for the schooling. one year here would be more (not accounting for flight cost on either end) than what i would be looking at for four years at MSU Denver.
-The only positive i see at Riddle is the R-ATP certification. but the cost saved in this is more than canceled out by the tuition and flight costs vs other schools.
-Is having Embry-Riddle Graduate and a R-ATP going to matter or give me and advantage getting hired regionally or when i move up to major airlines?

Sorry for the long read but really i just would like some help/opinions/advise on if staying at Riddle or I should explore other options, for example, going back home to Denver, attending MSU (direct partnership with united) and fly out of Centennial airport through ATP or something similar.
Click to expand...
Yes, please come back to Metro! Apply now, you can get in for the spring semester. Pick a topic,you like outside of aviation, make that your minor. Most airlines really don’t care about what school is on the parchment, only that you have one. There are other options than ATP. Five other schools at Centennial, 3 at Jeffco, 2 at Front Range, and so on. The weather ...well.... you know what Colorado is like. Go on Metro’s website, contact the advisors in the AviationDept ASAP.

Of course I’m not exactly objective, being faculty in another dept. But I hang out in the Av Dept for fun, and sit in on classes when I have time. Doing Aerodynamics right now.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Considered ROTC? That's the only way I made it out of ERAU without an insane amount of student loan debt (only $70k-ish instead of over $200k).

I graduated Daytona Beach but recently toured the Prescott campus when I was considered applying as a flight instructor. They had a pretty badass incentive package when I toured, but naturally it was already gone by the time I finished my CFI. Just go with it until you get an instructor, because once you do things happen fast.

My only real mistake was going back through the Worldwide campus to get a Masters on my own dime a few years ago :loco: Could have done without that extra $35k debt
Click to expand...

You could have done it for 70k without joining the military, and you’d have a real degree.
 
The election is a year away, and not a forgone outcome, but the top Democratic candidates have all said they favor some forgiveness for student loans or perhaps some partial payment of it. My Son had to use some loans to go to law school but was able to pay it off. It can really be a racket and like payday loans really get out of hand with high interest rates and penalties that add up. Some people come out with a debt of $200K. I know other countries have free basic medical care, I wonder it many have free education beyond high school. Biden has said that sponsored education should include training like trades like auto mechanic , A &P , plumbers, etc. which our economy needs. Where I live they charge $90 an hour for a plumber.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
The election is a year away, and not a forgone outcome, but the top Democratic candidates have all said they favor some forgiveness for student loans or perhaps some partial payment of it.
Click to expand...

I say rack up a bunch of debt and hope that somebody else pays for it. I mean why should you have to pay for your debt while not even attending a party school where you are clearly unhappy. Full disclosure: I have a post-graduate degree from ERAU, no student debt (though I would gladly have somebody write me a check to pay me back for the costs that I incurred) and an ATP.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
The election is a year away, and not a forgone outcome, but the top Democratic candidates have all said they favor some forgiveness for student loans or perhaps some partial payment of it.
Click to expand...

I'm all for it as long as everyone that votes for them goes back and pays mine back to me out of their pockets. Not so much for paying for someone else's after living like a pauper to pay mine back myself. They're always willing to give away other peoples money to win votes and sound like they care about other people.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
The election is a year away, and not a forgone outcome, but the top Democratic candidates have all said they favor some forgiveness for student loans or perhaps some partial payment of it. My Son had to use some loans to go to law school but was able to pay it off. It can really be a racket and like payday loans really get out of hand with high interest rates and penalties that add up. Some people come out with a debt of $200K. I know other countries have free basic medical care, I wonder it many have free education beyond high school. Biden has said that sponsored education should include training like trades like auto mechanic , A &P , plumbers, etc. which our economy needs. Where I live they charge $90 an hour for a plumber.
Click to expand...


Well they are promising all sorts of free stuff, problem is they themselves didn’t go to school for basic math, we don’t have the money for that, I mean look how well “free stuff” turned out for Venezuela.

Plus add how it’s completly morally reprehensible to not pay your bills and FORCE me to pay them for you under the threat of violence. Sorry but if someone is for this type of thing as calls themselves a morally sound person, or claims to follow most any religion, they are a complete joke and no better than the looter who breaks a window to steal a TV, but at least the guy with the TV did put some risk on his own plate.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
The election is a year away, and not a forgone outcome, but the top Democratic candidates have all said they favor some forgiveness for student loans or perhaps some partial payment of it.
Click to expand...

That's never going to happen.
 
Ah. Free college. It's great. I mean who would say "No" to learning useful life skills, being able to get higher paid job in the future, and have it all with no debt. It's win-win-win, right? Just like most of Europe.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/economy/europe-youth-unemployment-france/index.html

You get what you pay for. Ok, that's from 2017, but note how they say that US youth unemployment was around 10%.

Having said that,college degree costs are pretty insane now. Mostly because we've been programmed to think that it's college degree or failure. Demand drives the cost up(along with easy loans)
 
Last edited:
I'm not an ATP. Have no intentions on going that route. So I don't know what I don't know. But I know myself. I'm adaptable. I learn well on my own when I am motivated. And I definitely consider cost-benefit to spending. As others said, if you can afford to pay for it and it is working for you(obviously questionable) the ERAU may be a good choice. I wouldn't be able to pay for it without loans, so it would be a complete non-starter. p 61 would be my choice while working elsewhere and studying for useful something else cheaper just in case aviation doesn't work out.
 
I've considered ERAU for their online aeronautics degree, but I'm looking for alternatives, as well. I've already got my private, instrument rating, high performance and complex endorsements and I'm about two months or so from my commercial check ride. Any opinions on online alternatives?
 
James331 said:
I mean look how well “free stuff” turned out for Venezuela.
Click to expand...
Free stuff was not and is not Venezuela's problem, and anyone who thinks it is has no blessed clue what they're talking about. Venezuela is an example of what happens when the government steals everything that isn't nailed down, and then gets out the crowbars.
 
Dave Arata said:
I've considered ERAU for their online aeronautics degree, but I'm looking for alternatives, as well. I've already got my private, instrument rating, high performance and complex endorsements and I'm about two months or so from my commercial check ride. Any opinions on online alternatives?
Click to expand...
It does say worldwide campus on my ERAU degree, the price was about $15K less per year. I did it for the piece of paper as I run my own business and so nobody to impress but myself. The question is, do you require a degree? If you are doing it for the self-satisfaction then do it. Don’t rack up debt getting something that isn’t a stepping stone to the job. I spent quite a few dollars getting I/II/MEI and decided I just would rather fly my own plane. I am going to have to befriend some HR folks and find out if they care where a degree comes from or how it is obtained.
 
Landing Fees said:
It does say worldwide campus on my ERAU degree, the price was about $15K less per year. I did it for the piece of paper as I run my own business and so nobody to impress but myself. The question is, do you require a degree? If you are doing it for the self-satisfaction then do it. Don’t rack up debt getting something that isn’t a stepping stone to the job. I spent quite a few dollars getting I/II/MEI and decided I just would rather fly my own plane. I am going to have to befriend some HR folks and find out if they care where a degree comes from or how it is obtained.
Click to expand...

I'm planning on CFI after commercial, and thought a degree in aviation would be helpful moving forward. I'd like to purse a professional flying career over the next few years as I'll be 50 in 6 years. Time to do something different. :)
 
Dave Arata said:
I'm planning on CFI after commercial, and thought a degree in aviation would be helpful moving forward. I'd like to purse a professional flying career over the next few years as I'll be 50 in 6 years. Time to do something different. :)
Click to expand...
You and I should grab a beer. Same age, same boat.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
The election is a year away, and not a forgone outcome, but the top Democratic candidates have all said they favor some forgiveness for student loans or perhaps some partial payment of it. My Son had to use some loans to go to law school but was able to pay it off. It can really be a racket and like payday loans really get out of hand with high interest rates and penalties that add up. Some people come out with a debt of $200K. I know other countries have free basic medical care, I wonder it many have free education beyond high school. Biden has said that sponsored education should include training like trades like auto mechanic , A &P , plumbers, etc. which our economy needs. Where I live they charge $90 an hour for a plumber.
Click to expand...
Man this rubs me wrong (among others). So I guess I will go back to college and become a Orthopedist. Then my loans will be forgiven. But I'll still be making at least $400K per year and likely more. Whey the hell would anyone go to college knowing the loans will be forgiven and no go for the highest paid field....but wait...everyone would do that.
 
Sinistar said:
Man this rubs me wrong (among others). So I guess I will go back to college and become a Orthopedist. Then my loans will be forgiven. But I'll still be making at least $400K per year and likely more. Whey the hell would anyone go to college knowing the loans will be forgiven and no go for the highest paid field....but wait...everyone would do that.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, by the time the student loans are forgiven, Orthopedists will not be making any money(or at least have most of it taken in taxes)
 
0B3F0099-95BC-45FE-BDE3-22CD2243D49E.jpeg I guess the U.S. military is ‘free’ since the Federal Gov’t runs it?

If one votes based of allusions of ‘free’ anything, we’re doomed.
 
I'm sure you guys are vehemently opposed to using anything that someone else other than you paid for. Or at least that's what you claim, but have any of you flown into Oshkosh? Did you pay for those runways or all the other ones along the way you stopped at? If you went to a football game or basketball or baseball game, how much did you pay for those stadiums? Do you pay a set fee everytime you use the GPS system? Certainly you wouldn't freeload on some system the govt furnishes would you?
For the nut case that is ranting about Venezuela, well of course you know Biden was born there don't you.
Of course no one is going to force you to take out a college loan, but if you do you can certainly pay it all back yourself, with no aid if that is your preference. I have several friend who are not only orthopedic doctors, but also pilots and they seem to have a few $ left over after taxes. In fact the founder of the previous FBO here is an ortho doctor.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top