ELT: 406 MHz worth it?

deyoung

deyoung

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Chris
My plane is currently in for annual, and I'm leaning toward replacing my 121.5 ELT with a 406 MHz model. As far as I can tell there isn't actually a mandate requiring replacement, they just aren't going to be certifying any new 121.5 installations -- but, it looks like the 406 MHz models are a lot more reliable and better. I kindof think of the ELT the same way I think of a motorcycle helmet: you hope you never need it, but if you do, you really want it to work.

Looks like it will probably be around $800-$1000 to replace it.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
 
How do you plan to feed it GPS coordinates?
 
Are there actually any reliable statistics that demonstrate the 406 are more reliable than the 121.5? Do the accident stats the FAA keeps make any distinction between the two when they collect or keep them?
 
asicer said:
How do you plan to feed it GPS coordinates?
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You don't have to. Without GPS coordinates it takes the search area down to about a square half mile, with GPS coorindates it is accurate to within 5 feet. So it's still a good idea. They also sell ones with built in GPS's. I would certainly recommend getting the new 406 ELT.
 
GRG55 said:
Are there actually any reliable statistics that demonstrate the 406 are more reliable than the 121.5? Do the accident stats the FAA keeps make any distinction between the two when they collect or keep them?
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I am referring the activation rate (%) when an accident occurs, not the ability of the searchers to pinpoint the location after activation.
 
I did it last annual. Mine was a direct upgrade to my old one and used the same docking cradle so that saved on some money and installation time. The most expensive thing was running the communication cable from the unit to the GPS for the most accurate location. Overall , it cost me about 1k.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
A few years ago my mechanic went down in his PA-12 in a remote area east of Talkeetna, Alaska. He and his passenger were unhurt, but the airplane was wrecked and they would not have been able to get out of that area on foot.

All he had was a 121.5 ELT. Nobody heard the signal until almost 24 hours later, when an F-22 Raptor pilot overhead happened to hear it. They were picked up by helicopter a few hours later.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2013/07/alaska-state-troopers-name-pilot.html

He immediately became an evangelist for the 406 gospel, and offered a discount on 406 ELTs for his customers. When my 172 went in for its next annual I bought one from him.
 
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So do you wear a motorcycle helmet? Ever?
 
GRG55 said:
I am referring the activation rate (%) when an accident occurs, not the ability of the searchers to pinpoint the location after activation.
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The anecdotal evidence I have heard from several search and rescue personal is that they work very well when the accident is survivable. Non-Survivable accidents it can be hit and miss if the unit will survive well enough to continue transmitting. If they do continue to work 406 elts really reduce the amount of manpower, resources and time required to find out what happened.

Also when they can start the actual search much sooner as it is much easier to determine if it is a false alarm or a likely real accident. IF GPS equipped then it is just a Rescue, no search required.

Brian
 
If your airplane is ADSB-Out equipped, doesn’t ATC have enough information to find you based on your track? If you are on flight following or an IFR flight plan they should notice if you suddenly drop of the screen, Even if you are not on flight following shouldn’t the ADSB track be able to get pretty close to the crash site?
 
If you fly anywhere that the terrain and/or foliage would make a visual search difficult, I think one is a fool not to have a 406. In all other areas, still a good idea.
 
deyoung said:
Looks like it will probably be around $800-$1000 to replace it.
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If it's installed right it will cost more than that. The mounting requirements are much more stringent for the 406, to ensure survivablilty and activation of the unit in a crash, and to avoid false activations caused by vibration. Before I retired I was regularly finding nice new 406s mounted to the old 121.5 mounting location, usually attached to the skin. In a crash, the thing might not even activate if the airframe folds up quickly enough ("crash-hiding vibrations" is the way Artex describes it), or more likely will tear loose from the mount and antenna cable. Airplanes like that have thousand-dollar ELTs that are worth nothing in terms of locating them.

So it needs, usually, a better mounting. The requirement is that it be attached to primary structure, which skin alone is not (nor is a baggage shelf) and must not move more than 0.1 inch with a 100-pound pull in any direction. That usually requires a fabricated mount that attaches to a couple of fuselage formers or bulkheads and the skin; the skin provides the fore-aft rigidity. AC43.13-2B has some suggestions.
 
SkyDog58 said:
If you fly anywhere that the terrain and/or foliage would make a visual search difficult, I think one is a fool not to have a 406. In all other areas, still a good idea.
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A good idea anywhere unless you never leave the circuit at a major population center. If you're from Canada, or a pilot thinking of flying to Alaska, study this map and see if there's any chance someone is going to stumble on you:
Population density.png
 

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I wouldn't be without it here in AZ. There are way too many places where I wouldn't be found until long after I was coyote food.
Paul
Salome, AZ
 
Dan Thomas said:
A good idea anywhere unless you never leave the circuit at a major population center. If you're from Canada, or a pilot thinking of flying to Alaska, study this map and see if there's any chance someone is going to stumble on you:
View attachment 74497
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Best to have one in major population areas, as well - your GA airplane is small, hard to see, and comes apart, even in some survivable accidents. There is a lot of wilderness within sight, from GA altitudes, of many / most major cities in the US. Took us a week to find one within sight of a major highway - the 121.5 ELT was trashed in the crash - and they were never worth much anyway. . .

Just because you can see civilization doesn't mean civilization can see you.
 
alfadog said:
Then you've answered your own question, haven't you?
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Well, the question was more akin to "is this helmet that much better than the other one," but yes I take your point. Sounds like it's well worth the update.

Thanks!
 
Depends.

Do you want to be found after you crash?
 
False choice.
Doesn't consider 406 PLB's.
 
Our local CAP commander answers this question this way, "How fast would you like to be found?"

Search area
121.5 ELT - 740 sq mile
406 ELT - 17 sq miles
406 ELT w/ WAAS GPS - 339 sq yards!

-David
 
alfadog said:
You mean the ones that are always armed, activate on crash, and activate whether you are conscious, unconscious, or dead?
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No, I was referring to the less expensive ones that don't require installation, one may use even outside of flying, are waterproof and you may keep on your person even if the ones mounted in the plane sink with the plane.
 
NordicDave said:
Our local CAP commander answers this question this way, "How fast would you like to be found?"

Search area
121.5 ELT - 740 sq mile
406 ELT - 17 sq miles
406 ELT w/ WAAS GPS - 339 sq yards!

-David
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You mean he doesn’t suggest to get a 121.5 so they can fly more hours looking for you?


;):D
 
FORANE said:
No, I was referring to the less expensive ones that don't require installation, one may use even outside of flying, are waterproof and you may keep on your person even if the ones mounted in the plane sink with the plane.
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That one doesn’t do you any good if you are unconscious. I have both.
 
In Canada, with COPA (Canadian's AOPA), we're pushing towards getting rid of ELTs altogether:

https://aireon.com/services/aireonalert/

I will keep my 121.5 ELT working and give it fresh batteries on a regular basis up until the time this equipment goes the same way as Loran and ADF.
 
deyoung said:
you hope you never need it, but if you do, you really want it to work.
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Nobody is really responding to 121.5 ELTs in a timely manner. At this point I would identify it as a means to find your body.
 
bflynn said:
Nobody is really responding to 121.5 ELTs in a timely manner. At this point I would identify it as a means to find your body.
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Provided the bears don't find it first...
 
Why not just buy a PLB? I have the 121.5 ELT but purchased a ACR PLB which is registered to my N number.

Part of my emergency procedure is to activate the PLB.
 
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