Educate me on why this plane has not sold

O

odie451

Pre-takeoff checklist
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odie451
https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1802735-Cherokee-180.html?catid=21164

Why has this plane not been sold? It seems to be a reasonable price.
I understand that the Airframe Logs are from 1981-2023 and the Engine Logs are from 1991-2023
The transponder is in-op and has no ADSB.

From what I can tell besides the problems listed above and an ugly paint job.
The plane did pass an annual inspection this past January and is airworthy.
 
Used up engine means someone has to spend $30k soon. Then they will have the world’s ugliest $70k Cherokee. It’ll take $15k to repaint it, and the owner will have a nice $85k Cherokee. But the airplane will be out of service for 3-6 months while all of that is being taken care of.

Is that a good or bad deal in today’s market? I dunno.
 
odie451 said:
The plane did pass an annual inspection this past January and is airworthy.
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Which means nothing on paper.

Who knows, it’s either a diamond in the rough (unlikely) or previous pre-buy experiences have proven valuable to avoid further pursuit.

It’s got a run out engine, inoperable transponder, no ADSB and an archaic panel. I might be able to offer some guesses…
 
runout engine
no glass
no ADSB
avionics don't look old... they look ANCIENT

almost nothing that plane doesn't need.

edit: so many people insist on glass stuff. I'd be perfectly happy with the standard six pack.
 
Besides the reasons listed by you, the engine is past TBO (if my google AP is correct, lol)…While TBO isn’t an automatic overhaul as an owner, as a buyer, I’m absolutely assuming an OH is needed and negotiating accordingly. By the time you factor that, plus paint, plus ADSB, plus fixing the transponder, plus…, the actual sale price to the new owner is closer to 100k.
 
Beauty in the eyes of the beholder. Paint the top cowl and it's good enough for me. The paint looks like it has a good gloss and looks like it is doing its job to protect the aluminum from weather. Interior looks like it would work for me too. My first concern is always functionality over appearance. Avionics and engine contribute to safety, so the runout engine and avionics would be my focus, assuming I am satisfied with my pre-buy inspection of everything else. In reality, the airplane market is adjusting. The premium condition airplanes are still in demand, while the below average airplanes are not selling.
 
It's also located in the absolute middle of nowhere, so it is challenging for someone to just go take a look at it. If he wanted to get it to sell, he'd sign up with a broker near a population center. That said, Cherokee 180s are nice travelling machines, and if it's bones are good someone will hopefully get it and spruce it up.
 
The answer may be fairly simple. What other aircraft are available for ~$40k and how do they compare? People are always trying to get the most for their money and this one has some drawbacks.
 
With the wait times to overhaul and get parts for Lycomings right now, a run out engine is a no go. People are waiting a year to get a new engine right now.
 
Bonchie said:
With the wait times to overhaul and get parts for Lycomings right now, a run out engine is a no go. People are waiting a year to get a new engine right now.
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Who are they going through? Most of the big name companies aren’t running that far out. Seems four months is about the average time right now if you don’t have any discrepancies. Factory new might be longer.
 
As others have accurately pointed out, the price + the needed improvements exceed the improved value of the aircraft and the sellers are looking for an uninformed sucker.
 
odie451 said:
Why has this plane not been sold?
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Don't need to know anything about it to answer this question. The price is too high for the available market. There may be an interested buyer at that price, but the seller hasn't reached him.
 
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buy it, fly it as is, hope noting breaks, go to airline job, sell to next sucker.....

When I was in Germany many moons ago we had a standard to be applied to cars being purchased from people rotating home. $100 per month you hoped it would last.
 
IA is the broker. If he's the owner too, well that's strike... six or so. Some mechanics are excellent at riding that "minimum viable airworthiness" line.

Could be an awesome flier though. Bet that 40 grand (and then another 40, and possibly one more 40 to get things up to scratch) and see :)
 
This plane looks like someone asked Chat GPT-3 to hurl up the worst 1970s color scheme imaginable and then double down on it.

The runout engine doesn't help. That's money most people are going to insist on spending right away to get it ready to fly, and with the backlogs with A&Ps that means you probably aren't flying for a while.

Edit (addition): also see the transponder is listed as INOP? Not taking this plane anywhere in busy airspace til you fix that. Also, my eyes might be deceiving me but I think the radio in that plane is the same one FDR used for fireside chats. Probably due to yank that out and put something new in.

Also, you mention it passing annual. That means little to a prospective buyer. Not all annuals are created equal. The pencil whipped 1 liner from the owner/local shop isn't worth diddly dick to most.

All that said, could be a diamond in the rough for the right person.
 
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Somebody just sucked the life out of that plane for years, and now that there is nothing left wants to sell. Engine is out, interior has never been redone, paint is gone, instruments are museum quality. What makes you think that the parts of the airplane that you cannot see received better care?
 
Bob Noel said:
avionics don't look old... they look ANCIENT
edit: so many people insist on glass stuff. I'd be perfectly happy with the standard six pack.
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Not just the avionics. Looks like it still has its original heading indicator, the old AN type that I learned on 50 years ago. And a turn-and-bank. The only halfway modern instrument is the attitude indicator.

And it's not even the standard sixpack layout. Still the scramble panel.
 
Looks like Narco Nav/Com and possibly same brand transponder? Apollo Loran receiver? So, definitely engine needs O/H or replacement and a few avionics to replace. I agree on paint, just get the upper cowl done (white) and accept the other ugly colors for awhile.
 
odie451 said:
https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1802735-Cherokee-180.html?catid=21164

Why has this plane not been sold? It seems to be a reasonable price.
I understand that the Airframe Logs are from 1981-2023 and the Engine Logs are from 1991-2023
The transponder is in-op and has no ADSB.

From what I can tell besides the problems listed above and an ugly paint job.
The plane did pass an annual inspection this past January and is airworthy.
Click to expand...

In addition to the other stuff, the plane sat for 7 years before being annualed, so that motor timed out a long time ago and just sat. I don’t care about the paint, but for me that plane is worth scrap value to me.
 
I didn't realize that the plane sat for an extended period of time bed having an annual recently.
 
From logs, 1990:

Removed NARCO MK-12/VOA-4. Removed RADAIR Mdi 250
Transponder. Installed NARCO MK-12D, ID-824, AT-150 and an
ACK A-30 Altitude Encoder. Installed APOLLO Mdl 612B
Loran-C, Version #FB10236.

So the radios aren't that old.

It flew 15 hours from 10/11 to 2/12, then a whopping 2 hours since then. So it really sat for 10 years, even though it was in annual for the first 3
 
The sad part is it would've sold for that price in minutes a year ago. Of course, maybe it did, and the new owner has realized what is going to take to make it usable. You could easily put 120k into that plane and have a nice 80k airplane. I'd take it for free, which would still be a financial mistake.
 
Hmm - looks better than the flight school rental Cherokees that I've flown. (Maybe that says more about the flight school, than anything else. Those planes did have working transponders and ADS-B out, however). I'd be more concerned about the very low recent flying hours (maybe cam/lifter rust?) than about the 2156 SMOH. The paint could probably be perked up with some wax and buffing - at least it's still adhering. Maybe should make a low-ball offer?
 
40YearDream said:
Hmm - looks better than the flight school rental Cherokees that I've flown. (Maybe that says more about the flight school, than anything else. Those planes did have working transponders and ADS-B out, however). I'd be more concerned about the very low recent flying hours (maybe cam/lifter rust?) than about the 2156 SMOH. The paint could probably be perked up with some wax and buffing - at least it's still adhering. Maybe should make a low-ball offer?
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And if that engine has been ground-run a few times, it will be full of corrosion.
 
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Is there any way to tell when a variant of the O-360 was manufactured?
 
odie451 said:
Is there any way to tell when a variant of the O-360 was manufactured?
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For each engine the DoM is on the data tag. If looking for the variant in general the TCDS should have the date the variant was added to the TCDS.
 
odie451 said:
https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1802735-Cherokee-180.html?catid=21164

Why has this plane not been sold? It seems to be a reasonable price.
I understand that the Airframe Logs are from 1981-2023 and the Engine Logs are from 1991-2023
The transponder is in-op and has no ADSB.

From what I can tell besides the problems listed above and an ugly paint job.
The plane did pass an annual inspection this past January and is airworthy.
Click to expand...
$39K is a high for a rundown Cherokee. Engine is on last leg. Methinks that there may be some other problems with the plane than what is mentioned in the advertisement. You've also got that additional $$$$$ coming out of your pocket for the engine. And first things first, it'll need a new paint job.
 
RyanB said:
Who are they going through? Most of the big name companies aren’t running that far out. Seems four months is about the average time right now if you don’t have any discrepancies. Factory new might be longer.
Click to expand...

4-6 months is what they tell you for an O360, but they don’t really know. We have a school plane that’s over a year and should be done soon. Another friend has an O360 Cardinal and he only got his back at 11 months, partly due to cylinder shortages.

Then you’ve got to factor in a mechanic to rehang it, and many shops are way backed up.

Even if you get lucky and it’s 6 month for the reman, it can easily be 9 months all in, and that’s nothing going wrong. And crap always goes wrong.
 
Guess I'll be the contrarian - I kinda like the paint scheme. But having been raised in the 70's I have a certain nostalgia for avocado green.

No way around it, the engine is certainly a gamble having sat idle for that long. But if it's not making metal, I'd keep flying at least until I had cash for an OH.

Lots of first-time buyers out there who think a plane can't get airborne without a glass panel. Me, I could go a lot of places with a Mark 12D and an iPad.

C.
 
It's easy to look at a plane and think you are going to hop into it and just fly away.

What you have here is a plane that needs at very bare minimum an engine done pronto - I'd budget 40AMU for that as it will likely need/ should have done mufflers, mount work, accessories, etc. as well. Bad engines can and will kill you.

Everybody's like I can live with the paint - until you go to Signature and they marshall you to the parking spot behind the hangar with all the derelict fuel and deicing trucks.

Avionics I think are somewhat passable - later generation Narco MK12D and audio panel - workable. You could find a functioning slide in transponder and do a Tailbeacon. You still need to add a GNC355 - probably around a minimum of 13 AMU in avionics.

I've got you at 39 (purchase) + 15 (paint) + 40 (engine) + 13 (avionics) = 107AMU

I'd buy this instead!

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/219227951/1975-mooney-m20c-ranger-piston-single-aircraft

Good luck - the thrill of the chase!
 
If it had a lower time engine I'd say it could be a great little VFR only airplane- not everyone needs high end avionics and fresh interiors. Over TBO though...... ooof. Unless you're an A&P or are good friends with an A&P who happens to be sitting on a suitable replacement engine it's hard to see that being a good buy.
 
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