Easy C-182 Question

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SCAirborne

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SCAirborne
I am close to finally getting my first solo and the inevitable question came up between me and my CFI about what my mission and plane would be in the future.
My training has taken longer than most (probably) and I changed CFI's part way through due to some great advice right here on PoA.
Due to this I've had some time to do some research on possible first planes and I think a C-182 would be a great fit, but that all depends on if my research has been accurate...

1. Cruise speed of a non-retractable (regular tricycle gear mid 70's) C182 I thought was around 140 knots (75%), my CFI thinks it's closer to 120. I know there's not much difference but if its the lower number then I may look at a different plane. The data I've run across becomes murky as they had some retractable gear on some models which would of course increase cruise speed.

2. Is a C182 regular tricycle gear (fixed) considered high performance due to it's high HP engine or would being a fixed gear make it standard? My CFI said that if it's high performance it would make sense to get it sooner than later so I could log in 25 hours with him for my endorsement.

Thanks again to everyone in advance and sorry for the noob questions.
 
A mid 70s Cessna uses mph. Cruising in the near 150mph range is realistic. It depends on prop, tires, etc.

Over 200 hp and CS prop will make it a high performance airplane.
 
(1) A brand new, right out of the box 182 may push toward that 140 kts airspeed, but most older Skylanes will indicate in the mid 120s. Mine has a STOL kit and a three-bladed prop and it just barely makes it to 120.

(2) The 182 is considered to be high-performance because of the 230 hp, but not complex because it lacks retractable gear.
 
SCAirborne said:
I am close to finally getting my first solo and the inevitable question came up between me and my CFI about what my mission and plane would be in the future.
My training has taken longer than most (probably) and I changed CFI's part way through due to some great advice right here on PoA.
Due to this I've had some time to do some research on possible first planes and I think a C-182 would be a great fit, but that all depends on if my research has been accurate...

1. Cruise speed of a non-retractable (regular tricycle gear mid 70's) C182 I thought was around 140 knots (75%), my CFI thinks it's closer to 120. I know there's not much difference but if its the lower number then I may look at a different plane. The data I've run across becomes murky as they had some retractable gear on some models which would of course increase cruise speed.

2. Is a C182 regular tricycle gear (fixed) considered high performance due to it's high HP engine or would being a fixed gear make it standard? My CFI said that if it's high performance it would make sense to get it sooner than later so I could log in 25 hours with him for my endorsement.

Thanks again to everyone in advance and sorry for the noob questions.
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Can't speak to the speeds, I've never flown one.

High Performance (as in requiring an endorsement) is any airplane with more than 200 horse power. Flaps, Constant Speed Prop, Retractable Gear have nothing to do with high performance. (Although I'm not aware of anything with more than 200 horse power which has a fixed pitch prop.)

Complex (also for endorsement purposes) requires (for a land plane) Flaps, Variable Pitch Propeller AND Retractable Gear. Most variable pitch propellers now are constant speed propellers. Horse power is not a factor. I got my complex endorsement in a 180 HP Piper Arrow.

Many complex planes are ALSO high performance due to having more powerful engines.

John
 
I have a 77 Q model and yesterday while flying at 3500 feet I was indicating 135 knots. I only have about 200 hours on a rebuild.
 
jsstevens said:
.................
High Performance (as in requiring an endorsement) is any airplane with more than 200 horse power. Flaps, Constant Speed Prop, Retractable Gear have nothing to do with high performance. (Although I'm not aware of anything with more than 200 horse power which has a fixed pitch prop.)
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As I recall, the Cessna O-1 "Bird Dog" had a Continental O-470 (230 hp) engine and a fixed pitch prop.
 
Thanks that answers all my questions, and extremely fast. I guess I timed my post right.

Really was shooting for a 140 knot (160 mph) plane. Most of my trips will be 200 miles and that will make a big difference. My budget is small, like around 70-80k, so used for sure. Just needed the ability to have decent room and useful load as I will have a passenger and a couple of hundred pounds of equipment (which is compact but heavy - it would fit in a 182 but not 172 for reference).

Certainly, this site doesn't need another "First Plane" thread but if anyone has any quick thoughts on this I'd appreciate it.
 
I've flown N, P, Q, R, and T models. They all fly at around 125-130 indicated at 23/2400. Well, except the N, it does 150 MPH.

Think of these as pickup trucks. You use them for hauling stuff around. Not as speed machines.
 
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peerlesscowboy said:
As I recall, the Cessna O-1 "Bird Dog" had a Continental O-470 (230 hp) engine and a fixed pitch prop.
Click to expand...

And now I'm aware of a possible exception. Also, I'm sure some of the early aircraft from the 1910's and 1920's were more than 200 HP and fixed pitch props as well.

John
 
Cessna 180. Mine cruises at 145-150 mph with 29" Bushwheels and a bush tailwheel. Loads of space. Especially with factory or aftermarket second row jump seats that remove in seconds. Beware the early ones didn't have baggage doors.
 
Just to confuse you even more, I always thought my next plane would be a C-182. But after a lot of research, I have pretty much decided on a Bonanza. I was told Bo,s would cost more, and maybe they will with operational expenses, but I have found some Great Bo's at lower entry cost than a 182. Can you say "166kts" w 1,000# useful load. (of course, YMMV).

SCAirborne said:
Thanks that answers all my questions, and extremely fast. I guess I timed my post right.

Really was shooting for a 140 knot (160 mph) plane. Most of my trips will be 200 miles and that will make a big difference. My budget is small, like around 70-80k, so used for sure. Just needed the ability to have decent room and useful load as I will have a passenger and a couple of hundred pounds of equipment (which is compact but heavy - it would fit in a 182 but not 172 for reference).

Certainly, this site doesn't need another "First Plane" thread but if anyone has any quick thoughts on this I'd appreciate it.
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I rented a 182Q model for a trip to oshkosh and we flight planned 125kts. Only complaint was the fbo begged you to run 75 deg ROP because renters were over leaning and destroying the cylinders, which resulted in 14-15 gal/hr fuel burn.
 
My '81 182R does 140KTAS (flight planning speed) at ~11GPH, with the "Streamlined Gear" (SG) speed mod installed. Have flown many 6+ hr legs, with plenty of reserve (> 1hr).
 
MAKG1 said:
I've flown N, P, Q, R, and T models. They all fly at around 125-130 indicated at 23/2400. Well, except the N, it does 150 MPH.

Think of these as pickup trucks. You use them for hauling stuff around. Not as speed machines.
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The analogy to a pickup truck is a good one. But not in a major negative sense.

I fly a C182P and it's an good "upper middle" ground of speed, hauling capacity, endurance, and cabin comfort.

55WB will do 128 KIAS at 7500 ft, and will do do KDTO to Topeka KS in 3hrs each way.

Cabin is very wide, making it comfortable for two adults up front, and lots of legroom for those in back.

As many say, the Skylane isn't the best at any one particular aspect of flying, but it's really, really good at many of them.
 
I use 130 knots for planning in my Q model, depending on weight and altitude, I normally cruise at 133-138. The difference between 135 and 140 on a 200 mile trip is pretty small, actually you probably won't notice it. ;)
I have the nose wheel fairing off right now and that seems to cost a knot or two. :dunno:
 
jsstevens said:
(Although I'm not aware of anything with more than 200 horse power which has a fixed pitch prop.)
Click to expand...

The early PA-28-235 had a fixed pitch prop standard with a constant speed prop as an option from the factory.
 
SCAirborne said:
Really was shooting for a 140 knot (160 mph) plane. Most of my trips will be 200 miles and that will make a big difference.
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Actually, on a 200 mile trip there will be very little difference in block times between a 110kt 172 and a 140kt 182. Speed differentials don't make the trip more than 5-10 min faster until you start 500nm+ trips.
 
N747JB said:
I have the nose wheel fairing off right now and that seems to cost a knot or two. :dunno:
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During my transition training into the 182, I remember the instructor asking as we cruised to some BBQ if I'd like to go 3-5 knots faster.

"Sure!" I says.

And he reaches down and closed the cowl flaps.

Crazy what that "small" amount of stuff in the slipstream does to add drag and reduce speed.
 
I've frequently rented a welded leg "L" and it seemed comfortable at 130kt (150+mph).
Only problem was remembering that the ASI was in mph instead of kt and that I shouldn't be doing final with it sitting on "60" (but the horn was NOT blaring!)
 
Have you considered an older Cessna 210? They are roomy and have great useful load plus much faster than a 182. If I was on the market for a Cessna that would be my choice.
 
AggieMike88 said:
During my transition training into the 182, I remember the instructor asking as we cruised to some BBQ if I'd like to go 3-5 knots faster.

"Sure!" I says.

And he reaches down and closed the cowl flaps.

Crazy what that "small" amount of stuff in the slipstream does to add drag and reduce speed.
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Put Pilot and Co-pilot seats full aft if able to fly safely. I do this in the Tiger and it makes a little difference. Also, I can "adjust" minor trim changes with my feet (putting them full forward for down or full back for up). pack in CG, but put as much as you can to the rear helps as well.
 
Thanks for all the responses. After reading all the comments it seems that the 182 still is my best bet. 130 knots (150mph) is plenty fast enough. My main concern is the load and cabin space and it seems to fit the bill the best (at least in my budget constraints). My CFI was right then, I should probably look into getting one sooner than later so I can get the 25 hours logged and only have to pay for it once. My new CFI is great, and I owe switching to him to an earlier post and comments from this site. He is a retired commercial pilot that does training more to keep him active than trying to earn a living at it. Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.
 
I may have missed it, but what is the 25 hours for?
 
If you are going to get an older 182, get the RG so you can do your commercial in it some day + the added speed.

I have a newer 182 and have no problem doing 140-145 KTAS. Usually flight plan for 135 KTAS. I know several guys with the 182RG and they seem a bit faster than me.
 
SCAirborne said:
My CFI was right then, I should probably look into getting one sooner than later so I can get the 25 hours logged and only have to pay for it once.
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Yeah; I'm also unclear on what you're looking for 25 hours for?

Is it insurance? I would suspect that 5-10 hours dual would satisfy that, if even that is needed. (Maybe 25 hours solo?)

Is it a high performance checkout? I would think that would take about 5 hours (plus ground work) if done efficiently.

And you're sure you don't mean the 10 hours in a complex airplane (nothing to do with high performance, and a fixed-gear 182 won't cut it) required for a commercial pilot certificate?
 
These speeds that are being tossed around are they indicated airspeeds or true?

It depends on fuel burn. Like any airplane, it can cruise at a variety of speeds. Look in the flight manual, they are usually a little optimistic btw.
 
Maybe someone can explain this to me….

The 182T has a service ceiling of 18100. The R model (steam gauge) has a service ceiling of only 14800. The 182N has a service ceiling of 20000. That's a pretty big difference.

Why? The T has a 3 blade prop and fuel injection (and a heavy-a** G1000), but the rest are 2 blades, steam gauge, and carb'd.

This doesn't seem to be limited to 182s. 70's 172s seem to work better than later ones, too, even with the engine upgrade in the early 80s. For 172s, the issue is clearly weight (SPs are chunky), but it really doesn't seem that obvious for 182s, especially when the service ceilings vary by a mile.
 
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The Cessna 172, 150 and 182 are numbers 1, 2 and 3 on the list of most-produced civilian aircraft of all time. There's gotta be a reason.

[The Cherokee is shown on some lists as #2, but that's apples-and-oranges, because it includes all Cherokee variants].
 
For insurance the 25 hrs is probably the solo required before carrying pax. Due to being a low time pilot.
 
ja_user said:
I may have missed it, but what is the 25 hours for?
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I only needed 5 hours dual in the club's 182 for insurance and my high perf endorsement. And I was a "low time" pilot at the time. I'm not sure where this 25 hours is coming from, either. However, if you do your PP training in the 182 this will come "automatically" due to your training.

As other have noted, for a 200 mile trip it makes little difference which plane you fly. I have about a 250 nm trip across the state and it really doesn't make a lot of difference whether I take the C-172N, C-182P or PA-28R-200. A little over 2 hours to make the trip.
 
You can't go wrong with the 182.......hauling a little weight over 200 miles, this is your machine. Couple hours each way in comfort. I did $100 hamburger runs with an AME who had an older one. Burned zero oil in 2 years and always did 10gph on the nose at about 130-35knots..........great machine. Unless you're going for bigger ratings I would skip the retract stuff........having seen more than one seriously bummed pilot standing out in the grass with curly Q props........lol...........
 
I'm just relaying what my CFI said about the 25 hours instructed/dual. He said I needed it for insurance reasons... Being just in training I took it as factual. Him being commercial with 1,000's of hours he might have lost touch a little bit on the requirements. I just wanted to check some things since the waters are cloudy out there with so many variants before narrowing it down. Thanks again for all the replies. I have been staring at two of them on Trade-A-Plane that are pretty local to me, so I'll try to make it there to look at them after the holiday weekend and then schedule a mechanic to give it an inspection. Thanks again for all the responses.
 
Your best bet on finding out hours required is to simply get a couple insurance quotes. It's easy, free, and gets you exactly what the requirements are. I just got quotes for a Mooney M20 as a 100hr Private Pilot with no HP or Complex endorsements and both required 10 hours dual, and one also required an additional 5 hours solo before passengers and stated that the 10 hours must include at least 20 landings.

Time for the endorsement shouldn't even be 10 hours, so you'll cover both pretty easily there.
 
SCAirborne said:
I am close to finally getting my first solo and the inevitable question came up between me and my CFI about what my mission and plane would be in the future.
My training has taken longer than most (probably) and I changed CFI's part way through due to some great advice right here on PoA.
Due to this I've had some time to do some research on possible first planes and I think a C-182 would be a great fit, but that all depends on if my research has been accurate...
Click to expand...
If you have not yet soloed, my initial thought is your research is premature. My advice would be to focus on your training, and wait until you're closer to completing that training to worry about what you're going to fly after training.
1. Cruise speed of a non-retractable (regular tricycle gear mid 70's) C182 I thought was around 140 knots (75%), my CFI thinks it's closer to 120.
Click to expand...
For that vintage, based on a few hundred hours in type, 135 knots TAS is a good flight planning figure for cruise speed.

2. Is a C182 regular tricycle gear (fixed) considered high performance due to it's high HP engine or would being a fixed gear make it standard?
Click to expand...
"High performance" per 14 CFR 61.31(f) means having an engine of more than 200 HP, and since the lowest power engine ever put in a 182 was 230 HP, a 182 is "high performance" for that purpose. Being fixed gear means it is not "complex" for the purpose of 14 CFR 61.31(e), which is a different additional training endorsement requirement not applicable to a fixed-gear 182 unless it's on floats.

My CFI said that if it's high performance it would make sense to get it sooner than later so I could log in 25 hours with him for my endorsement.
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There is no minimum number of hours required for a high performance endorsement. For someone who's been flying a 172 or the like, 3 hours of training is more typical to receive a high performance endorsement in a 182. Your future insurer may have some requirement for some minimum number of hours of training with a CFI in that type before they will cover you for flying by yourself, but I would expect more like 5-10 than 25 for that.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you have not yet soloed, my initial thought is your research is premature. My advice would be to focus on your training, and wait until you're closer to completing that training to worry about what you're going to fly after training.
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I'm wondering if you have second thoughts after your initial one....train in what you're going to fly and all that.
 
SCAirborne said:
Due to this I've had some time to do some research on possible first planes and I think a C-182 would be a great fit, but that all depends on if my research has been accurate...
Click to expand...

Overall, the 182 is a great first airplane. Do your due diligence and they won't cost you a fortune in maintenance, and they're fast enough to get you places and forgiving enough to let you have some, ahem, "learning experiences."

1. Cruise speed of a non-retractable (regular tricycle gear mid 70's) C182 I thought was around 140 knots (75%), my CFI thinks it's closer to 120. I know there's not much difference but if its the lower number then I may look at a different plane. The data I've run across becomes murky as they had some retractable gear on some models which would of course increase cruise speed.
Click to expand...

I have a ton of time in a 1971 182N. In that plane I'd plan on 130 KTAS (yes, that's true, not indicated - Indicated is fairly meaningless in this context) and I'd usually get about 133 in cruise.

In a nice new G1000 182T, I've seen 140 - That's probably what your research indicated because a new plane can do that, but planes of the vintage you're likely looking at won't. I've also seen 1950's birds that are down to maybe 125 KTAS on a good day. Bottom line, newer will generally be a bit faster, but you'll probably want to check on the individual bird you're buying.

FWIW, my club now has a 1978 R182(RG), it'll do 150 KTAS.

2. Is a C182 regular tricycle gear (fixed) considered high performance due to it's high HP engine or would being a fixed gear make it standard?
Click to expand...

High performance by virtue of its >200hp engine (230hp on the fixed gear, 235 on the retract).

My CFI said that if it's high performance
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Umm... If your CFI doesn't know whether or not a 182 is high performance, you probably want to take anything he says about them with a grain of salt.

it would make sense to get it sooner than later so I could log in 25 hours with him for my endorsement.
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As others have said, you shouldn't need anywhere near 25 hours with him. The endorsement can easily be done (and done well) in <5 hours. There is no FAA requirement in terms of hours for the endorsement, and I can't imagine an insurance company requiring 25 in type for even a student pilot. FWIW, our requirement used to be 5 hours if you had >=100 total time, or 10 hours if you had <100 TT.

Thanks again to everyone in advance and sorry for the noob questions.
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No apologies needed, that's what we're here for! If there's one thing we never tire of, it's threads where we get to spend other people's money on airplanes. ;)
 
SCAirborne said:
Really was shooting for a 140 knot (160 mph) plane. Most of my trips will be 200 miles and that will make a big difference.
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Not really:

200 nm @ 140 knots = 1:26
200 nm @ 130 knots = 1:32
200 nm @ 120 knots = 1:40
200 nm @ 110 knots = 1:49
200 nm @ 100 knots = 2:00

So, moving up from a 172 to a 182 is going to make your trip 20-30 minutes faster (depending on the vintage of your 172). But moving from a 182 to a hypothetical 140-knot airplane on that same trip *might* save you 6 minutes.

Don't forget that it also depends on how long it takes to climb to altitude in each plane and how fast they're going when you do. The 182's climb speeds aren't much different than the 172's, but the climb rates are about doubled in the 182 so you'll get to cruise altitude much faster, and thus be able to accelerate to cruise speed faster as well.
 
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