EarthX STC approved!

Not limited to LSA. This one spins my engine, and that’s a chore. When the Odyssey on the Cessna’s firewall wears down, I’ll put an EarthX in that plane, too. Great batteries, great customer support.
 

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FlyingElvii said:
For a light sport however, that can be a significant savings in weight, if you can make it work out on the w&b.
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With an empty weight of about 860 lbs and a maximum gross weight of 1,320 lbs, I often needed to reduce fuel load if my passenger weighed more than 170 or so. In my example above, saving 12+ lbs with the battery swap translated to the ability to carry about 2 more gallons of fuel - not insignificant with my 18 gal total fuel capacity. Unfortunately, adding a fire extinguisher and, later, ADSB out, ate into that a bit, but that’s hardly the battery’s fault.
 
Calculated or did you put the plane on scales?

I’ve weighed mine a few times. It never matches what was calculated.
 
My battery is in the tail on my PA28-181. Often when flying at full gross with passengers, I’m CG envelope limited and therefore will put some of the weight that I would love to keep in the 200 lb weight limited baggage area, back near the second seat row datum point. This battery would help that situation. Sometimes, when flying without all the seats filled with passengers, I cannot put all 200 lbs of baggage in that compartment as well because of exceeding the rear envelope. That battery would help there also. But I like my Concorde AXC for all that reserve power. Maybe, in a few years, if the expense comes down, and with the back up battery solution, this could be something to explore further. But right now, the trade offs are not good enough.
 
Well that's an unpleasant surprise. When my engine reaches summer operating temps (firewall mounted battery) the battery controller fails catastrophically and causes an over-voltage. I'll be calling EarthX this week to return the battery. I'm NOT happy with this failure mode.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well that's an unpleasant surprise. When my engine reaches summer operating temps (firewall mounted battery) the battery controller fails catastrophically and causes an over-voltage. I'll be calling EarthX this week to return the battery. I'm NOT happy with this failure mode.
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Wow, that doesn't sound good.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well that's an unpleasant surprise. When my engine reaches summer operating temps (firewall mounted battery) the battery controller fails catastrophically and causes an over-voltage. I'll be calling EarthX this week to return the battery. I'm NOT happy with this failure mode.
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I've got one mounted on the hot side of a firewall in an experimental cub. Haven't had any issues with it that I am aware of. Perhaps there is something wrong with the specific battery you have, or perhaps I've been lucky.
 
I’m considering the battery after talking to earth x at OSH waiting for STC.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well that's an unpleasant surprise. When my engine reaches summer operating temps (firewall mounted battery) the battery controller fails catastrophically and causes an over-voltage. I'll be calling EarthX this week to return the battery. I'm NOT happy with this failure mode.
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Protecting ANY in-cowl battery from heat is the installer’s problem. Skywagons never came with firewall-mounted batteries. Compatibility of multiple STCs is the mechanic’s responsibility.
 
Stewartb said:
Protecting ANY in-cowl battery from heat is the installer’s problem.
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********. Odyssey never had an issue. So either this battery is frail and unrobust or my exact battery has a manufacturing defect.
 
Some time after taking my Sky Arrow EXPERIMENTAL, I picked up an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron battery to replace the Odyssey I had in it, saving a lot of weight as mentioned above. It performed flawlessly for 7+ years, but I went ahead and replaced it proactively with a new Aerovoltz, which was clearly a different design, at least physically.

On my first flight with the new model I got a screeching in my headset and noticed my system voltage peaking above 18v. That excursion ended up frying my strobe controller and intercom, but fortunately that was it. The fellow at Aerovoltz said that was unusual and to send it back for a replacement. I was a bit gun shy about the new design and put the original Aerovoltz back in where it soldiered on for another year or so, when I replaced it with an EarthX which has performed perfectly since installation. I keep the original Aerovoltz charged as a spare, but I’m still too nervous to use the new model for anything.

My battery resides in the plane’s nose cone, far away from any heat source, so I’m sure that helps. I was also pleased to find out that though my plane is Italian, the strobes and controller were sourced from a Pennsylvania company that fixed it for a very nominal cost, and the intercom was also of US manufacture and fixed cheaply. I feel I got off easy.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well that's an unpleasant surprise. When my engine reaches summer operating temps (firewall mounted battery) the battery controller fails catastrophically and causes an over-voltage. I'll be calling EarthX this week to return the battery. I'm NOT happy with this failure mode.
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earthx-overvoltage.jpg
 
Mtns2Skies said:
********. Odyssey never had an issue. So either this battery is frail and unrobust or my exact battery has a manufacturing defect.
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A defective battery is on them. Excessive heat is not. Put a shroud over the battery and add a blast tube from the rear baffle to push cool air through. The ETX has electronic circuitry in it, an Odyssey does not. It reminds me of Emags, which require blast tubes for each mag to keep electronics cool. Or move it to the OEM battery box like the STC intends.
 
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Stewartb said:
A defective battery is on them. Excessive heat is not. Put a shroud over the battery and add a blast tibe from the rear baffle to push cool air through.
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It's not 'excessive' heat if a lead-acid battery has no issues. They've built a system that is not robust enough to handle NORMAL operating temps.
 
You installed an STC or otherwise approved battery box on the firewall. If it was STC it prescribed the battery as an Odyssey SBS-J battery, not an ETX. Your assumption that all batteries should be equal is incorrect. You deviated from the STC, you need to make an adjustment. From what I know of ETX battery cell construction? I wouldn’t want it in the heat.
 
Here are two posts from the EarthX FAQ page
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Can the battery be mounted forward of the firewall?
Yes, in most cases. But, temperatures in some engine compartment have been reported to exceed the battery operating temperature range. ie a Glasair Sportsman prior to 2017 and some RV7 installations in southern climates. The engine compartment is still a good place, but it takes a little more effort with the battery box and or cooling air. We have a thermally insulated battery box on our website which solves most people’s temperature concerns. But you could additionally use cooling air (thru blast tube) at that location to be sure things stay cool.


How do these batteries do in the heat?
EarthX batteries are rated up to 60°C or 140°F for normal operation, and for short term operation (30 mins) is 65°C. After shut down with a hot engine compartment (no operation) it is rated for 85°C or 185°F. Higher temperatures mean shortened battery life. The batteries do come with heat monitoring that will illuminate the LED with a 2 second on/off light and you would need to mititage the heat for a longer battery life. EarthX batteries have been installed in engine compartments with no trouble, however if heat is still a concern we do offer thermal battery boxes.

The problem in your Skywagon is their box isn’t approved and 43.13-2B doesn’t provide approved data for LiO batteries. That leaves the blast tube as the best solution if you want to keep it forward of the firewall.

 
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Stewartb said:
Can the battery be mounted forward of the firewall?
Yes, in most cases. But, temperatures in some engine compartment have been reported to exceed the battery operating temperature range. ie a Glasair Sportsman prior to 2017 and some RV7 installations in southern climates. The engine compartment is still a good place, but it takes a little more effort with the battery box and or cooling air. We have a thermally insulated battery box on our website which solves most people’s temperature concerns. But you could additionally use cooling air (thru blast tube) at that location to be sure things stay cool.


How do these batteries do in the heat?
EarthX batteries are rated up to 60°C or 140°F for normal operation, and for short term operation (30 mins) is 65°C. After shut down with a hot engine compartment (no operation) it is rated for 85°C or 185°F. Higher temperatures mean shortened battery life. The batteries do come with heat monitoring that will illuminate the LED with a 2 second on/off light and you would need to mititage the heat for a longer battery life. EarthX batteries have been installed in engine compartments with no trouble, however if heat is still a concern we do offer thermal battery boxes.
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The battery is TSO'd dictating that it meets a minimum standard... and clearly it does not. Additionally none of that information is in the TSO, OR STC documentation and a companies website FAQ is not a location someone should be expected to go for this info. In fact on their spec sheet it specifically states: "EarthX’s first FAA TSO certified battery. ETX900-TSO is designed and eligible for engine compartment or in cabin installations"
 
Have it your way. I’ve tried to help. Solving the problem would be easy.
 
If the battery can't handle the heat when mounted on the firewall, the STC should contain the information and parts to install the blast tube. The STC for the battery does not apparently limit its mounting location, perhaps it should? This is exactly why I will wait until all the bugs are worked out.
 
The temperature limits shown in post #57 are included in the STC installation manual. Responsibility for keeping the battery below those limits is the installer’s responsibility. An installer’s unwillingness to comply with the instructions doesn’t constitute a bug.

A blast tube to a shroud over the battery would be an easy afternoon project. If I change my Odyssey to an ETX I’ll consider a blast tube. It may be that cowl louvers move enough air in that area to not need it. Installing on the inside if the firewall would be better.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
When my engine reaches summer operating temps (firewall mounted battery)
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I'm surprised that was permitted. Their STC webpage says they haven't yet gotten authorization to install in front of the firewall.

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asicer said:
I'm surprised that was permitted. Their STC webpage says they haven't yet gotten authorization to install in front of the firewall.

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Where in the STC does it say this? I can't find it. This is a limitation shown on the sales website and not shown in the official installation data?

They need to get the online documents straightened out. The STC certificate points to the Approved Model List. Neither have this battery location limitation on them. The Approved Model List says EarthX document D18120 which isn't on the website.
 
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OR , maybe just get a different lithium battery...
 
Their customer service was pretty ****ty. They were helpful and responsive up to the point where they wanted more data and I said no, I am not putting their battery back in my plane unless they agree to cover the replacement cost of all of the avionics. They tried to persuade me to get them more data on a battery that failed by telling me my alternator would prevent an overvoltage, and maybe so, but my plane and my life is not their test equipment. Then gave me the run around for about a month on preventing a refund until I got the CC company involved. I would NOT recommend buying from this company.
 
Tempting as it might be to save some pounds, in our 182Q, the battery location in the tail is pretty important to maintaining the forward CG limit. Operating with only two heavier folks in the front seats, we're right at the forward CG limit. If I lost 10 lbs at the battery location, I'd need to add more than that to the aft baggage compartment to stay within forward CG limits.
 
Well, I got my plane back from annual today; one of the tasks was to install an earthx battery. Gained 27lb useful load, and moved the cg back .4", which is very useful in my case.

Day 1, so far so good lol. I'll try to update this occasionally as I live with it for a while.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Their customer service was pretty ****ty. They were helpful and responsive up to the point where they wanted more data and I said no, I am not putting their battery back in my plane unless they agree to cover the replacement cost of all of the avionics. They tried to persuade me to get them more data on a battery that failed by telling me my alternator would prevent an overvoltage, and maybe so, but my plane and my life is not their test equipment. Then gave me the run around for about a month on preventing a refund until I got the CC company involved. I would NOT recommend buying from this company.
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Which company? I would however point out that I am not aware of a battery failure mode that causes an over voltage situation. I suspect you have others issues. Generally over voltage is caused by the voltage regulator with the alternator online.
 
Jeff767 said:
Which company? I would however point out that I am not aware of a battery failure mode that causes an over voltage situation. I suspect you have others issues. Generally over voltage is caused by the voltage regulator with the alternator online.
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I'll give you three guesses as to which company it is given the thread title.

It can absolutely cause that issue if the BMS fails and sends that duty to the voltage regulator. Also this set up has worked flawlessly for 5 years. First time an earthx goes in and it decides to **** the bed? No, logic would dictate otherwise.
 
Bah, Decathlon/Citabria is not on the AML and not on the projected list. My left testicle for saving 25 pounds sounds like a fair trade after gaining 38 pounds during restoration.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Bah, Decathlon/Citabria is not on the AML and not on the projected list. My left testicle for saving 25 pounds sounds like a fair trade after gaining 38 pounds during restoration.
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how do you restore a testicle?
 
BMS wrecks snowmobile stators. I wouldn't be the first to jump on this bandwagon. BMS shuts the battery down in the cold and you get no power. They make certain batteries now with no BMS so they work in sleds.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Bah, Decathlon/Citabria is not on the AML and not on the projected list. My left testicle for saving 25 pounds sounds like a fair trade after gaining 38 pounds during restoration.
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Just found out that American Champion added the EarthX to TC specs for the Decathlon, so I don't need the STC. My Concorde RG just so happened to croak the same day, so I bought an EarthX 900 TSO battery! Have to collect up a few bits and pieces, then I'll do the install in about 2 weeks.

Be aware it is not a drop-in install for most aircraft. Not challenging by any means, but there are a few mods required:
1. Battery has 2 ports on top that have to be vented outside of the fuselage with "special" tubing.
2. Most battery boxes will need a foam spacer to keep the smaller battery from sliding around.
3. A battery fault LED light must be installed on the panel and wired to the battery.
4. The terminal screws are AN4, so battery cables with AN5 rings may need to be modified or replaced.
5. W&B revision.
6. ICA and AFM supplement.

The EarthX website has install kits, but they are a bit pricey. The tubing is cheap. Ask them to throw in a Wye fitting.

Hooray to saving 17 pounds at a cost of about $400!
 
Pinecone said:
Remember, L/A capacity checks are done at 1C, so a 35 AH battery is run at 35 amps for 1 hour to not hit a specified voltage limit.

IMO, they should double the capacity and weight. Still a goodly weight saving over lead acid.

BUT, on my Mooney, the issue is forward CG, so a lighter battery would need the additional of Charlie weights in the tail. :D
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Install 2 of them in parallel.
 
Fwiw, I've had mine for about 6 months. I was a little worried about starting this past winter, but I didn't need to be. So far it's been way better than the lead -acid.
 
A lot of concern here about Amp-hours between EarthX and Concorde. Called them. It appears to be apples and oranges. Lead-acid unusable and permanently damaged by about 9-10V so has to have more Ah. Lithium stays same voltage up to ~80% discharge so less Ah needed. Actually puts out more CCA. Also loses very very little charge over time so no need to use a Batteryminder unless do a deep discharge like leaving Master on. And the BMS prevents complete discharge turning off the battery before permanent damage. RE: overvoltage damage to avionics, that appears to be not turning avionics off once OV noted with alternator continuing to put out high current. The battery protects itself but it cant protect the electronics in the plane and neither can a lead-acid. Info from EarthX.
 
M Sands said:
A lot of concern here about Amp-hours between EarthX and Concorde. Called them. It appears to be apples and oranges. Lead-acid unusable and permanently damaged by about 9-10V so has to have more Ah. Lithium stays same voltage up to ~80% discharge so less Ah needed. Actually puts out more CCA. Also loses very very little charge over time so no need to use a Batteryminder unless do a deep discharge like leaving Master on. And the BMS prevents complete discharge turning off the battery before permanent damage. RE: overvoltage damage to avionics, that appears to be not turning avionics off once OV noted with alternator continuing to put out high current. The battery protects itself but it cant protect the electronics in the plane and neither can a lead-acid. Info from EarthX.
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I don't buy this explanation. People aren't (only) worried about killing their batteries; they're wanting to be sure they have enough Amp-hours to get out of the soup when the alternator quits. Concorde measures their capacities to an end-point voltage of 10V, a level at which the battery may be damaged but your avionics might still work. At this EPV the Concorde has 2x the amp-hours of the EarthX at an EPV of 11V (at which point I assume it shuts down).

P.S. I don't necessarily think that the 15.6Ah capacity of the EarthX is insufficient, but it certainly seems like it will provide less staying power in the event of an alternator failure and you'd need to run the numbers to decide if that's enough for you.
 
mondtster said:
I've got one mounted on the hot side of a firewall in an experimental cub. Haven't had any issues with it that I am aware of. Perhaps there is something wrong with the specific battery you have, or perhaps I've been lucky.
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Same here. I live where the temps are over a 100 deg. in the summer and I fly in it. Never had a problem. However, limited air flow and high HP could conceivably cause a problem. Never heard of any of the Vans aircraft having this problem over the past 6 years I've been following. Most of those are tightly cowled high HP. I don't think this is a systemic problem with the battery, but maybe a combination of circumstances in this aircraft. Or, you just got a bad battery. It can happen.
 
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