Early in training and looking for a plane

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Brian21

Filing Flight Plan
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brian21
My wife has "allowed" me to pursue my PPL. I am very early in my training, 4 hours, but intend to use the PPL as a means of recreation and site seeing for friends and family once proficient. We have 3 children and my wife will have a rule of having a CFI on board with any family until she feels comfortable. I feel this will be quite some time as she has a fear of small aircraft and GA. This leads me towards a piston single 6 seater. I like the Cessna 206 for many reasons and feel from my research it is possibly a reasonable plane for low hour pilots to safely fly. Should I consider this as an option or should I look at a Cessna 182 as a stop gap and trade planes once I get more hours and/or my IFR? I would like to have my plane during training to get as many instructional hours as possible in the plane. I am also considering G1000 equipped plane to ease the transition once a move into the 6 seater or later into a twin or turboprop.
1 Thoughts on 206 for pilot in training?
2 G1000 worth the cost or upgrade later for longer trips and IFR flights on next plane?

Brian21
 
Rent a 172 and finish your PPL.
THEN see how many times your wife actually agrees to fly before you buy a family minivan with wings.

My wife dislikes flying. So she only comes with me if there's a good horse or close family to see at the other end. Her nervousness about small planes takes away some of the enjoyment I get from flying when she is with me. I use the planes to get to business appointments and recreation flying, travel with the guys in my circle of friends. You may find you end up similarly, and don't need a station wagon as a result.
 
Let these rising fuel prices cool aircraft prices down a bit. Top of the bubble and all that.

Joining a nearby flying club (if possible)?
 
Why not have your wife take some flying lessons? My wife and I did just that. We started by having a friend take us on a flight over the Grand Canyon, (just some of it LOL), and she enjoyed it enough to agree to take flying lessons with me. She ended up taking about 25 lessons, enough to land by herself if needed.

Start looking for your airplane now, and buy it in time to do all your XC work in that airplane. I agree the Cherokee six is a good place to start because it is fixed gear and is an easy step up from any Cherokee. But there are 14 airplanes available for 6 people.
https://www.flyingmag.com/best-used-six-seaters/

Have fun and good luck!
 
Insurance for a 6-seater will be very expensive for any low time pilot. May or may not be a showstopper for your situation.
 
What is better about a Cherokee over a Cessna?

Insurance maybe the deciding factor but if it’s only a few thousand not trading planes in 2 years and getting more dual time would be worth it to me.

I could also finish my training on the Warrior we have access to and then go straight into IFR when I buy a plane.

This is in the ballpark of what I was looking at:
On controller but I can’t post a link:

2004 Cessna Turbo Stationair T206H. Asking $419,500USD. 1,490 hrs TTSN. G1000 w/ WAAS, SVT, ADS-B in/out, Active Traffic, XM Wx/Stereo, WX500 Stormscope. Flint Tip Tanks, Wipaire Copilot Door, New UV Windshield, USB ports, CiES fuel senders. VERY nice T206H loaded up! Midwest Aviation, KY (270) 744-8600

Thanks,
Brian21
 
That turbo 206 looks like it might be a pretty nice plane.
But, I have to go with the "keep training in the Warrior/rental till you get your ticket" camp. That would be my advice for any model, but especially a turbocharged plane. Turbocharged engines don't take well to the on-and-off nature of primary training, stall practice, simulated ("surprise") engine failures, continual pattern work, etc. I'm sure there have been students who've acquired their PPL with a turbo- aircraft, but, for my (strictly personal) opinion, if I were your instructor, I'd refuse to do the primary training in a turbo-, for the sake of not abusing the equipment. Yes, your initial checkout training in a T206, whatever your certificate level, would include stalls and simulated engine out, but not to the extent as during primary training. I know there will be varied opinions on this, YMMV, as they say.
The general turbo- or not, Piper vs. Cessna discussions are more or less different topics, separate from the training question.
 
Thank you for the replies! I am going to hold off until I have my PPL and then cross this bridge. Not having a club limits my ability to use different aircraft for different missions so this will again become an issue but I will be further down the decision matrix.
Brian21
 
I would not wait for anything. Life is already complicated as it is, and being in a club makes it more so. If you can afford a plane, buy one and train in it. I did that with a C182 and one week after I got my PPL I took my family on a 4600 mile tour of the western USA. There is no amount of money that can create such amazing memories.
C206 vs. Cherokee 6. I have flown in both, and the passenger space difference is huge. Just go sit in them and you will see.
 
There is one advantage to owning your own airplane that nobody talks about. And that is, it my be the tipping factor to force you to complete your training. Lots of us, particularly us, ahem, older pilots encountered training blues where we aren’t making progress (or so we think), and we get frustrated, sometimes angry and maybe more. Happens to a lot of us and there are some threads on that topic if you care to read them. In my case, I was ready to quit at about 35-40 hours in. I just wasn’t making the progress I thought I should and I was getting frustrated and my work was needed was little time I could devote to flying. So I told my CFI I was probably done, but would let him know after I got back from a gig at MIT. It turned out that time at MIT let me reflect on why I was doing it, and when I came back, it all clicked. Shortly thereafter, I was able to make progress and a few months later took my checkride. I know that if I had invested in an airplane, I never would have entertained a thought of quitting. It’s one thing to walk away from $5-6K in training costs versus that plus $80K (and given the types of plane you are discussing considerably more). That alone would have motivated me no matter how frustrated I felt and to figure out a way to make it work. Having said that, I am with the majority here - rent your way to your PPL. You will be able to make a more informed decision once you have completed that phase of training and if you still want to move forward, buy a plane that suits 80% of your mission needs and get your instrument, commercial, etc. in that plane. And by the way, take your wife flying with your CFI. See if she likes it before you invest more in either training or a plane. You may be surprised. And again, there are threads on this topic as well if you care to read them.
 
My wife is OK with flying in small aircraft with me as pilot in control once I get my PPL.... as long as there is a CFI or an experienced pilot in the right seat. Honestly for many flights taking a CFI is an inconvenience not a deal breaker. If that's what it takes to make her comfortable then that is what I intend to do. Ideally she would get some training to feel proficient in the future and eliminate the CFI. She currently has zero interest in obtaining her PPL.
Brian21
 
Brian21 said:
My wife is OK with flying in small aircraft with me as pilot in control once I get my PPL.... as long as there is a CFI or an experienced pilot in the right seat. Honestly for many flights taking a CFI is an inconvenience not a deal breaker. If that's what it takes to make her comfortable then that is what I intend to do. Ideally she would get some training to feel proficient in the future and eliminate the CFI. She currently has zero interest in obtaining her PPL.
Brian21
Click to expand...

Has your wife ever been on a trip in a light piston airplane that involved a full day or two of flying to get there?
 
She has only been on local sightseeing GA flights, two hour flights in King air or light jet, and vacation helicopter tours.

Any significant weather and turbulence will be an no go for her.
Brian21
 
My wife gets nervous when I back out of the driveway, she has zero interest in airplanes. You might wonder about why she doesn’t complain about me flying. The answer is I have very good life insurance that even covers experimentals now.
 
Start with a safe small airplane in excellent shape like one of the older 172s that is low time and well maintained. They are very safe planes.
 
Cherokee 6 is a good suggestion. Wish I could afford one! Several years back I flew in one with a student, seemed easy enough, and a competent CFI should be able to help you in that.
 
My wife won't fly. But it doesn't bother her that between my brother and me, we have 5 airplanes. We partner a 172, and a Rans S6s, I own a C-150 and an RV9A, he owns his RV9A.
 
Jim Carpenter said:
But, I have to go with the "keep training in the Warrior/rental till you get your ticket" camp. That would be my advice for any model, but especially a turbocharged plane. Turbocharged engines don't take well to the on-and-off nature of primary training, stall practice, simulated ("surprise") engine failures, continual pattern work, etc. I'm sure there have been students who've acquired their PPL with a turbo- aircraft, but, for my (strictly personal) opinion, if I were your instructor, I'd refuse to do the primary training in a turbo-, for the sake of not abusing the equipment. Yes, your initial checkout training in a T206, whatever your certificate level, would include stalls and simulated engine out, but not to the extent as during primary training. I know there will be varied opinions on this, YMMV, as they say.
The general turbo- or not, Piper vs. Cessna discussions are more or less different topics, separate from the training question.
Click to expand...

That was my thought, too. Operating an IO540 with a turbo requires some attention to avoid overheating or cooking the turbo. Abrupt power changes are also probably not the greatest for engine and turbo longevity.

For IR training, a T206 would be rock solid.
 
Cherokee Six is 6" wider shoulder to shoulder than a 206. It eases the fear of GA flying a bit when shoulders aren't touching. I said it before and I'll say it again, Shoulder room is UNDER RATED. Won't cruise as fast because of the bigger hole it's punching but I'll take being comfortable for 3 hours vs cramped for 2hours 45 min. Turbo adds complexity and maintenance and for my normal mission it's not worth it. But I'm a flatlander in the Midwest that rarely sees high enough DA to warrant a turbo.
 
Brian21 said:
My wife is OK with flying in small aircraft with me as pilot in control once I get my PPL.... as long as there is a CFI or an experienced pilot in the right seat. Honestly for many flights taking a CFI is an inconvenience not a deal breaker.
Click to expand...
You seem (from your questions) like a "money is no object" sort of guy, who wouldn't sweat the finances of paying a CFI to come along on every single family outing. However, I'm going to guess that this will get old VERY fast. Will you pay the CFI his or her hourly rate to hang out and do nothing for hours while you're at the restaurant? Overnight at the hotel? All weekend? Additionally, part of the reason to get a PPL is the freedom, to use the skills that you've learned, build self-confidence and experience, and pride. If my spouse gave me the choice of "fly with a CFI all the time, or never with me," I would wish him a nice day and fly by myself. Otherwise, why not just charter a plane for those family outings, or hire a pilot, rather than *be* one?

There's a common misconception, especially among non-pilots, that a bigger plane with more "things" (like more seats, or turbo, or a fancy panel, or FIKI, etc.) is always safer. I imagine the world is full of worried spouses demanding that the plane have this-or-that feature. But the most critical safety feature of any airplane is YOU. Dreaming about a fancy plane that will suit the family is a moot discussion if the family doesn't have faith in that safety feature. So just let that one go for now. Don't give up on the family! But give it time, and have no expectations. The way to demonstrate that you are a pilot worthy of her confidence is to have a safety-conscious attitude. About weather. Terrain. Risk-taking. Proficiency. All that stuff -- you'll learn about! It may take a few years of taking off alone in the Warrior or the 172 and coming back drama-free and without incident.

Good luck!
 
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GeorgeC said:
Rent until you get your ticket, then buy a fun 2 seater so you can still afford to fly after the divorce.
Click to expand...
This is the best advice I've ever heard on this forum (or any other for that matter)...where were you 20 years ago when I needed to hear that?
 
kath said:
You seem (from your questions) like a "money is no object" sort of guy, who wouldn't sweat the finances of paying a CFI to come along on every single family outing. However, I'm going to guess that this will get old VERY fast. Will you pay the CFI his or her hourly rate to hang out and do nothing for hours while you're at the restaurant? Overnight at the hotel? All weekend? Additionally, part of the reason to get a PPL is the freedom, to use the skills that you've learned, build self-confidence and experience, and pride. If my spouse gave me the choice of "fly with a CFI all the time, or never with me," I would wish him a nice day and fly by myself. Otherwise, why not just charter a plane for those family outings, or hire a pilot, rather than *be* one?

There's a common misconception, especially among non-pilots, that a bigger plane with more "things" (like more seats, or turbo, or a fancy panel, or FIKI, etc.) is always safer. I imagine the world is full of worried spouses demanding that the plane have this-or-that feature. But the most critical safety feature of any airplane is YOU. Dreaming about a fancy plane that will suit the family is a moot discussion if the family doesn't have faith in that safety feature. So just let that one go for now. Don't give up on the family! But give it time, and have no expectations. The way to demonstrate that you are a pilot worthy of her confidence is to have a safety-conscious attitude. About weather. Terrain. Risk-taking. Proficiency. All that stuff -- you'll learn about! It may take a few years of taking off alone in the Warrior or the 172 and coming back drama-free and without incident.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
I am hoping to share the plane at some point to cut cost. I like the idea of a hobby that has a use. If using a CFI allows me to transition into self directed flight with my family that is what I will do to ensure my wife is happy.( she has allowed me to obtain the PPL it’s her fear of accidents with both of us involved that holds her back.) I will plan to make solo or non family/buddy trips without the CFI. My point of view is I want to fly and my wife will allow me to do so with this small caveat and it’s a small “price” to pay until I get some real experience.
Brian21
 
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