EAA locked my thread?! Huh!

Jim Rosenow

Jim Rosenow

Line Up and Wait
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Jim Rosenow
Wow! Been on the internet pretty much since DARPA cut it loose, and this is a first for me! Those who have been around for awhile know I'm not a real confrontational sort of guy. I am however a believer in freedom of speech (and yup, I know it's their site to do what they want with), so I leave it to you sages of the internet to help me understand why. Also willing to discuss the topic more fully in this neutral arena, as the group so chooses This is my 50th, and become my last, year of supporting EAA. It saddens me.


http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?10015-Web-Cams
 
I was puzzled by that as well. I can't see any real reason to lock that thread -- other than perhaps to prove a few points made in the thread.
 
Definitely odd to lock a thread about that. Who knows, but feel free to discuss it here! :)
 
You maybe shouldn't have ended your post with: "look forward to a response by EAA". It seems they provided one.

More seriously, I don't see why they should have locked it, either. I'm a member of EAA, but not active on that board, so I've no idea what their moderation policies are usually like.
 
GaryM said:
You maybe shouldn't have ended your post with: "look forward to a response by EAA". It seems they provided one.

More seriously, I don't see why they should have locked it, either. I'm a member of EAA, but not active on that board, so I've no idea what their moderation policies are usually like.
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I've seen *very* few locked threads there, all dealing with politics or ****ing matches. This is the first one I've seen dealing with EAA policies.

Ron Wanttaja
 
sounds like you kinda sort leaked some inside information, not that there was anything top secret there........but really who knows, seemed innocent enough other than that risotto guy being a little dooshy
 
Grum.Man said:
Seems like an over reaction by all over some silly web cams.
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Disagree completely, Grum! If you're 80, in a wheel chair, or sitting in England, and have been waiting all year to watch the cameras as your only possible exposure to the fly-in...to you, any degradation in the cams is a huge deal. EAA should understand that their membership is aging, and remote access should by rights become more and more important, if in fact, their goal is to serve their membership. I've asked one of the webcam team for stats on how many access the cams during the fly-in....you'll be amazed at the number when I get it.

wanttaja said:
I've seen *very* few locked threads there, all dealing with politics or ****ing matches. This is the first one I've seen dealing with EAA policies. Ron Wanttaja
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I've been on the EAA forum since it started, Ron, and I concur with your assessment. I'm not on it often, just enough to see what's up. It's not a high volume/high member count site like POA. I can't remember ever seeing a locked thread.

Under full disclosure, before EAA locked the thread, they deleted two posts that came after my last one. One opined that Paul (Red 1) would not be happy with where EAA is headed. The other opined that the current EAA admin is making a commercial organization out of what started out membership-based. Their language was calm, and to me, seemed inoffensive (is that a word?)
 
I just sent Sam Oleson, the EAA adminstrator who responded in the webcam thread, a private message on the EAA site asking why it was locked. You'll get what I get...

Jim
 
Jim Rosenow said:
Wow! Been on the internet pretty much since DARPA cut it loose, and this is a first for me! Those who have been around for awhile know I'm not a real confrontational sort of guy. I am however a believer in freedom of speech (and yup, I know it's their site to do what they want with), so I leave it to you sages of the internet to help me understand why. Also willing to discuss the topic more fully in this neutral arena, as the group so chooses This is my 50th, and become my last, year of supporting EAA. It saddens me.


http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?10015-Web-Cams
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What color Threadlock did they use? Blue or red?
 
I posted on n your thread in the eaa forum. I’m not sure what they were thinking…The cams only attract the hard core aviation types and generate a buzz in that crowd before the show. Why they would downgrade that is a mystery.
 
I’ve known a mod to accidentally hit the lock button before.
 
Rushie said:
I’ve known a mod to accidentally hit the lock button before.
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:p Was it me? I know I deleted a whole thread accidentally in my mod days. OMG, how do I restore it?

But it seems two posts were deleted in addition to the thread being locked. I don't think all those things could be accidental.
 
Just speculation, but:

A. The cancellation of last year's show was a major financial blow to EAA...this year HAS to be profitable.
B. One way that they're making money is that a major aerospace company paid to handle web cams.
C. It's possible that someone at EAA got scared that the company in question might end up being criticized on the EAA forums.
D. With AirVenture on a verge of getting started, it is probably hard to run down the people who would normally be involved in decisions like this.
E. Thus, it's possible the thread was locked due to an abundance of caution by a single person, very likely kind of junior in the command chain.

Note that in no way do I consider that any of these points *justify* the lock. I'm just suspecting that these issues were involved.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Everskyward said:
:p Was it me? I know I deleted a whole thread accidentally in my mod days. OMG, how do I restore it?

But it seems two posts were deleted in addition to the thread being locked. I don't think all those things could be accidental.
Click to expand...

Good point. No it was on a different forum.
 
Your freedom of expression means you can say what you want.

The EAA's freedom of expression means they don't have to give you a platform to say it.

Your freedom of association means you don't have to continue to support the EAA.

FWIW, I agree with you — your thread seemed pretty innocuous, and it was petty of the EAA mods to lock it.
 
I think someone hijacked your thread to cast aspersions on the decisions of the EAA regarding funding and the purpose of the EAA: MC20 said:

<i>After being canceled last year, I felt bad for the EAA and got a lifetime membership and gave a cash donation on top of that.

Bad move. Instead of using it to improve AirVenture, they sold off the webcams to Pratt and Whitney.

The EAA used to be an organization for its members, but it’s becoming the same as the AOPA - an organization that exists soley to further the organization itself and make money. We’re just the suckers they sell to corporate sponsors.
</i>
 
wanttaja said:
Just speculation, but:

A. The cancellation of last year's show was a major financial blow to EAA...this year HAS to be profitable.
B. One way that they're making money is that a major aerospace company paid to handle web cams.
C. It's possible that someone at EAA got scared that the company in question might end up being criticized on the EAA forums.
D. With AirVenture on a verge of getting started, it is probably hard to run down the people who would normally be involved in decisions like this.
E. Thus, it's possible the thread was locked due to an abundance of caution by a single person, very likely kind of junior in the command chain.

Note that in no way do I consider that any of these points *justify* the lock. I'm just suspecting that these issues were involved.

Ron Wanttaja
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Hi, Ron! I know we're in about the same place on this.

a... agreed
b....over 5 years ago the team begged EAA to let them have a sponsor and showed them how to incorporate ads in the streams
c....certainly....and their rationale they shouldn't be criticized is...?
d....a PM to the forum administrator yesterday has no response yet...like 'we're checking'
e... abundance of caution indeed. You made me smile :)

Jim
 
I'm guessing I probably just made my last post to the EAA forum..subtley added the link to this thread. I feel the wrath of the mighty EAA ban hammer coming upon me...and that's OK....another first. ;-)

(evil chuckle). I suppose if all the EAA members on here started posting the link to various EAA topics....BAD JIM. PlEASE forget I wrote that!!! I can be a pita when aggravated.

Jim
 
Justin M said:
I think someone hijacked your thread to cast aspersions on the decisions of the EAA regarding funding and the purpose of the EAA: MC20 said:

<i>After being canceled last year, I felt bad for the EAA and got a lifetime membership and gave a cash donation on top of that.

Bad move. Instead of using it to improve AirVenture, they sold off the webcams to Pratt and Whitney.

The EAA used to be an organization for its members, but it’s becoming the same as the AOPA - an organization that exists soley to further the organization itself and make money. We’re just the suckers they sell to corporate sponsors.
</i>
Click to expand...

That seems more like a logical extension than a hijack to me....eye of the beholder.

Jim
 
Jim Rosenow said:
I'm guessing I probably just made my last post to the EAA forum..subtley added the link to this thread. I feel the wrath of the mighty EAA ban hammer coming upon me...and that's OK....another first. ;-)

(evil chuckle). I suppose if all the EAA members on here started posting the link to various EAA topics....BAD JIM. PlEASE forget I wrote that!!! I can be a pita when aggravated.

Jim
Click to expand...

I see Sam Oleson replied and references the forum rules. I can’t find the rules to save my life. I used to be a member of EAA but canceled long ago and can’t log in, do you only see the rules if you log in? Or am I missing something right under my nose?

Here’s what he said in case they delete the whole thread:

Hello all,

While we appreciate all members' feedback, the previous thread was locked because it began to violate our Forums rules. If you have feedback or criticism about EAA, we would greatly prefer if you could send an email to feedback@eaa.org.

Thank you.
 
So...all of a sudden 20 minutes ago my browser couldn't find eaaforums.org. Everything else worked fine internet-ly. Tried several times to get in over a few minutes, then light bulb time. Went to my VPN, changed my IP addy and magically eaaforums.org is back. Again I say, 'Huh!'....much more suble than an open ban.

Interesting coicidence that when I got back on Sam had posted, and replied to my PM with the same message. I've asked in a return PM for the rules, cause I don't see them either, logged in.

Thanks Rushie!

Jim

PS- I wonder how long it will take EAA to realize that their actions have taken the discussion from a few-100-member server to an audience of 32000 users?
 
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Jim Rosenow said:
So...all of a sudden 20 minutes ago my browser couldn't find eaaforums.org. Everything else worked fine internet-ly. Tried several times to get in over a few minutes, then light bulb time. Went to my VPN, changed my IP addy and magically eaaforums.org is back. Again I say, 'Huh!'....much more suble than an open ban.

Interesting coicidence that when I got back on Sam had posted, and replied to my PM with the same message. I've asked in a return PM for the rules, cause I don't see them either, logged in.

Thanks Rushie!

Jim

PS- I wonder how long it will take EAA to realize that their actions have taken the discussion from a few-100-member server to an audience of 32000 users?
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Ah, double secret probation. If they don't publish the rules, the rules can be whatever they want them to be at the time.

These boards have a way to block people either my user name or by IP address. And a couple of other tricks, too, to discourage "problem" posters.

I, too, had thought about EAA as an alternative to AOPA, but what I'm seeing now is just disheartening. Still plenty of good members, though.
 
Jim Rosenow said:
That seems more like a logical extension than a hijack to me....eye of the beholder.

Jim
Click to expand...

Rushie said:
Here’s what he said in case they delete the whole thread:

Hello all,

While we appreciate all members' feedback, the previous thread was locked because it began to violate our Forums rules. If you have feedback or criticism about EAA, we would greatly prefer if you could send an email to feedback@eaa.org.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that those last posts claiming that the EAA is corrupt and working to make money diverges from "Webcams are missing, where are they?"

To me "EAA screwed up the web cams " != "EAA is corrupt and taking membership dues to advance their personal fortunes."
 
Bet I'm headed for my 2nd EAA lock-down...any takers?

....and here's the forum rule that was violated....

"Hi Jim -- here's the specific rule: "21. Please do not use the EAA Forums community to make or pursue complaints and concerns about EAA, its employees and agents, programs and services, organizational policies, customer service failings, etc. Please submit feedback to the appropriate location in the organization, and we will endeavor to be as responsive as possible: mailto: feedback@eaa.org""
 
Jim Rosenow said:
Bet I'm headed for my 2nd EAA lock-down...any takers?

....and here's the forum rule that was violated....

"Hi Jim -- here's the specific rule: "21. Please do not use the EAA Forums community to make or pursue complaints and concerns about EAA, its employees and agents, programs and services, organizational policies, customer service failings, etc. Please submit feedback to the appropriate location in the organization, and we will endeavor to be as responsive as possible: mailto: feedback@eaa.org""
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Sounds to me more like a request than a rule. You can refuse a request.
 
Rushie said:
I see Sam Oleson replied and references the forum rules. I can’t find the rules to save my life. I used to be a member of EAA but canceled long ago and can’t log in, do you only see the rules if you log in? Or am I missing something right under my nose?
Click to expand...

The Forum DOES include a link to the Rules. They're in the basement of EAA headquarters (mind you, the lights and stairs are out), in a locked file cabinet labeled, "Beware of the leopard."
eaa forum.JPG
(This link is not displayed on the main forum page...only on the sub-forums).

Ron Wanttaja
 
Jim, I just had a quick look at that thread. I agree your posts were quite reasonable and personally would not be inclined to remove them. I share your strong dislike of censorship, even when performed legally by private entities.

I suspect EAA’s best move here would be a calm explanation of their reasoning. They are a aviation supporting non-profit, so most people will likely be sympathetic with their needs.
 
A few years ago there was a rather harmful and very public split/disagreement within EAA. That is when the rule was added, the funny part to me was it was one of the few things both sides agreed on.

It has been enforced ever since.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
wanttaja said:
The Forum DOES include a link to the Rules. They're in the basement of EAA headquarters (mind you, the lights and stairs are out), in a locked file cabinet labeled, "Beware of the leopard."
View attachment 98524
(This link is not displayed on the main forum page...only on the sub-forums).

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

Wow. I had thought about joining recently, but given this, makes me have second thoughts.
 
Justin M said:
I think someone hijacked your thread to cast aspersions on the decisions of the EAA regarding funding and the purpose of the EAA: MC20 said:

<i>After being canceled last year, I felt bad for the EAA and got a lifetime membership and gave a cash donation on top of that.

Bad move. Instead of using it to improve AirVenture, they sold off the webcams to Pratt and Whitney.

The EAA used to be an organization for its members, but it’s becoming the same as the AOPA - an organization that exists soley to further the organization itself and make money. We’re just the suckers they sell to corporate sponsors.
</i>
Click to expand...

Hi Justin,

I've gone back thru the thread and don't find the "corrupt" or '"personal gain" anywhere that you alluded to. That said, civil disagreement is a good thing, and I support it.

Jim
 
The EAA Spirit of Aviation Facebook page which is less than thrilled with the webcams (7/21 posts) this year is still up. BTW, It's interesting to see how many planes have ADS-B off or not installed. FISK is working planes that don't appear on the FlightRadar 24 feed on this Saturday afternoon before the show.
 
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wanttaja said:
The Forum DOES include a link to the Rules. They're in the basement of EAA headquarters (mind you, the lights and stairs are out), in a locked file cabinet labeled, "Beware of the leopard."
View attachment 98524
(This link is not displayed on the main forum page...only on the sub-forums).

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

So it is. Either they just added it or I didn’t have enough coffee this morning to find it.
 
I’m beginning to conclude all organizations eventually end up with the leadership insulating itself and the organization becomes about supporting the top tier and caring less about the rank and file. Sensitivity to criticism becomes a symptom of that. This applies to every human organization: government, religion, corporations, non-profits, unions, clubs, gamer guilds, any human group assembled for an ostensible purpose, because humans sort themselves into hierarchies because you need a hierarchy in order to get anything done, so it is a normal and necessary process, however those in power tend to collect more and more power like a gravitational body in space collects more and more mass. If you know an organization that hasn’t come to that yet, give it time.
 
After reading all the posts in this thread, I just hope the world doesn’t end before I get back from Oshkosh.

Cheers
 
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