Dumb questions from someone who doesn't fly... but writes about it.

Scott Hicks

Scott Hicks

Filing Flight Plan
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Scott Hicks
It's been said that “Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.” I suppose this is a variation of that. I'm an aspiring author expecting my first book to be on the shelves by the end of the year or shortly after. In final editing stages now. Though the book is not about aviation, there is some flying going on in the story line and I'm a stickler for details. I would hate to write about something, get it wrong and then have someone who knows a lot more about it than I do look at it and laugh about it not being realistic. I hate it when Hollywood does that crap.

So here's the dumb question: If an experienced solo pilot was flying a Cessna 208 Caravan configured for skydiving operations, would it be safe or even possible for him to leave the pilots seat during flight and enter the rear of the aircraft?
 
Scott Hicks said:
It's been said that “Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.” I suppose this is a variation of that. I'm an aspiring author expecting my first book to be on the shelves by the end of the year or shortly after. In final editing stages now. Though the book is not about aviation, there is some flying going on in the story line and I'm a stickler for details. I would hate to write about something, get it wrong and then have someone who knows a lot more about it than I do look at it and laugh about it not being realistic. I hate it when Hollywood does that crap.

So here's the dumb question: If an experienced solo pilot was flying a Cessna 208 Caravan configured for skydiving operations, would it be safe or even possible for him to leave the pilots seat during flight and enter the rear of the aircraft?
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It would be a) illegal b) not very safe but people do worse things some times c) definitely possible with autopilot. Whether a and b are worth it would depend on other factors in a fiction story...
 
You'll probably need to create a life-threatening situation that requires the pilot to leave his seat. An incorrectly latched door or shifting cargo probably wouldn't justify such a move, but an autopilot lowers the common sense bar a lot. And if your pilot has a history of reckless and impulsive behavior, it might be easier to believe. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the Caravan could help you craft a believable plot device.
 
I'll bite. Not safe or legal. Possible if it has an autopilot. It isn't unreasonable for a Caravan to have an autopilot. The purpose of one, though, is to ease the workload of flying, not to let the only pilot walk away. To me, it would be a crazy move, and whatever the reason for going in the back would seem contrived. Unless....your character just doesn't care, is reckless or really inexperienced.
 
I think most public is aware enough of an AP (autopilot) that a character "engaging" it to handle a task of high importance would pass the smell test.
 
Now if your character starts climbing out of the plane or fiddling with some extended, complicated task it will quickly seem dumb. Like that recent movie with the hot, freaky babe from Get Out.

Also not sure how easy it is for a caravan pilot to crawl between seats to get into back. Unless of course copilot seat is removed. Crawling from front to back in pretty much all small planes is not easy.
 
Thought this was gonna be pilot skydiver and passenger had to land, in which case this wouldnt entirely be fiction.

Regardless, I give you props for wanting to get details correct. We don't see that often in aviation writing.
 
What's the reason he is heading back there?

I read your post as routine - Pilot checking on passengers (or jumpers). That would not happen.
Jumper's chute gets hung up on the plane somehow? Maybe.
Pilots of jump planes, my understanding, wear a chute too.
 
Sinistar said:
Now if your character starts climbing out of the plane or fiddling with some extended, complicated task it will quickly seem dumb. Like that recent movie with the hot, freaky babe from Get Out.

Also not sure how easy it is for a caravan pilot to crawl between seats to get into back. Unless of course copilot seat is removed. Crawling from front to back in pretty much all small planes is not easy.
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The getting between the seats was actually one of my biggest concerns. I've been up in a skyhawk a number of times and there's no way that's happening in that plane. The Caravan is a bit bigger though.
 
Scott Hicks said:
It's been said that “Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.” I suppose this is a variation of that. I'm an aspiring author expecting my first book to be on the shelves by the end of the year or shortly after. In final editing stages now. Though the book is not about aviation, there is some flying going on in the story line and I'm a stickler for details. I would hate to write about something, get it wrong and then have someone who knows a lot more about it than I do look at it and laugh about it not being realistic. I hate it when Hollywood does that crap.

So here's the dumb question: If an experienced solo pilot was flying a Cessna 208 Caravan configured for skydiving operations, would it be safe or even possible for him to leave the pilots seat during flight and enter the rear of the aircraft?
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You can in a Twin Beech

 
I’ve been copilot in a 182 and climbed to the baggage area to retrieve something. Can’t believe a 208 wouldn’t be the same or easier. It depends on your character - are they lean and smaller frame, or big?
 
Sinistar said:
Now if your character starts climbing out of the plane or fiddling with some extended, complicated task it will quickly seem dumb. Like that recent movie with the hot, freaky babe from Get Out.

Also not sure how easy it is for a caravan pilot to crawl between seats to get into back. Unless of course copilot seat is removed. Crawling from front to back in pretty much all small planes is not easy.
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What movie that
 
What regulation makes it illegal? Besides that catch all "careless and reckless clause." Just being an ass and curious this morning.
 
Getonit said:
What regulation makes it illegal? Besides that catch all "careless and reckless clause." Just being an ass and curious this morning.
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I can't cite the reg number, but it says the pilot must be at the controls at all times. It's what they're charging the red bull plane change pilots with (as well as careless and reckless, of course).
 
I think you should take some flying lessons. That would give you more insight as to what you are writing about. This may also give you access to an instructor who might be familiar with the subject airplane. After 3 or so hours in the cockpit you might find a lot of answers to new questions you can't even think of now.

Would a pilot likely leave the controls unattended during a flight? Not without a death wish! But you are the writer, not me.
 
Getonit said:
What regulation makes it illegal? Besides that catch all "careless and reckless clause." Just being an ass and curious this morning.
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Im not one of those people who has the FARs memorized but it’s whichever one the Red Bull plane swap guys got busted for.

Edit: Dana beat me to it.
 
Well, we've thoroughly discussed why this is a poor idea, but here's a suggestion: pilot has a stress-induced medical emergency. Heart attack is most believable if your pilot fits the profile. Stress-induced seizures are a possibility as well. And the life-saving medications were inadvertently left in a bag in the back of the airplane. And yes, you can crawl between/over the seats if you are in grave danger. There are a lot of situations which create high levels of stress in a pilot. Some even while flying! These medical conditions usually prohibit a person from obtaining a medical certificate to fly, but there are many documented cases of pilots who simply don't report such conditions - or don't renew their certifications. Some don't bother with the required annual inspections on their airplanes. You may want to research medical certificates (BasicMed and the Classes) and the timing of FAA required medical exams, but it might work. This essentially eliminates contriving an airplane problem as the plot device. But make sure you install an autopilot!
 
Interesting thought experiment. Putting the legalities completely aside, I immediately thought of how this could go in my own Archer. If solo, and placing the airplane on autopilot without altitude hold, depending on the cruise speed and the pilots weight, there would be a pitching up attitude change that would increase a lot as the pilot made it to the rear, and definitely exceeding the safe balance envelope. The plane might not stall if the airspeed was able to be maintained above the stall, but I think this is very questionable. Making your way back to the pilot seat would be very interesting if not in a stall without a rope or something, or grabbing seats to pull yourself forward (and upward).

Now the differences with a solo Caravan are that there is a larger envelope and a higher cruising airspeed but a longer/higher balance moment when the pilot reached the rear. The pilots weight compared to the higher weight of the aircraft makes me think the attitude changes could be lessened than in my Archer. If there was no altitude holding autopilot, It could look similar to my Archer. With an altitude hold, I don’t know if the auto trim in the autopilot will exceed its ability to prevent the nose from coming up and exceeding elevator control.

PS: no experience in a Caravan
 
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I believe that it has been done. Barry Seale, played by Tom Cruise in the 2017 movie "American made" is shown in a scene inbound to Arkansas via the US gulf coast in an Aerostar. He is being chased by the Narcs and he has a load of contraband that he needs to get rid of. He is solo and climbs in back, opens a camera port in the floor and dumps his whole incriminating load. It takes some minutes, it's a big load.

I used to fly for a company in Louisiana and a couple of our pilots grew up with Seale In Baton Rouge. The stories that they told of Seale after he was hit by the cartel in B.R. make me believe the Aerostar story to be accurate.
 
dfw11411 said:
Well, we've thoroughly discussed why this is a poor idea, but here's a suggestion: pilot has a stress-induced medical emergency.
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Or, any emergency where it's less dangerous to leave the controls than to ignore the emergency. An autopilot would be required. Even then it would be freakishly weird. Someone said above, maybe a skydiver caught in something and banging against the side of the plane. Not sure even then I'd do it, maybe slip to cut down the slipstream the meat bomb has to endure and then land.
 
Feel free to PM me on including aviation in fiction. I've done a fair bit.
 
No autopilot needed. I've climbed to get something out of the baggage area in both a Cherokee and a Comanche. Just a bit of nose down trim to deal with the CG shift. Last time I did it, plane was still within 100' of altitude and still on heading. Got what I needed and buckled back up.

Another thread where you can tell who has and who hasn't done something, but are experts nonetheless.
 
In a Caravan, it's a bit difficult to get around the throttle quadrant/trim wheels to get to the back. Notice the 208 pilots get their own doors.

91.105 requires crew-members to be at their stations unless performing a required duty.

Even with autopilot, a pilot moving back aft will cause the aircraft to nose up until the auto pilot catches up. A 208 is a big Cessna, but it's still relatively light and a 200 lb weight shift is noticeable. Also note that if the Caravan is used exclusively for jump operation, it's possible the autopilot may not be functioning.
 
Scott Hicks said:
I would hate to write about something, get it wrong and then have someone who knows a lot more about it than I do look at it and laugh about it not being realistic. I hate it when Hollywood does that crap.
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Think of your market audience and don't sweat the details. Its the same reason Hollywood and other authors do it as a means to further the story and plot. As Mark Twain once said, "A good story well told" will get you through all the "gray areas" as sometimes the facts will kill the fiction.;)
 
EdFred said:
Another thread where you can tell who has and who hasn't done something, but are experts nonetheless.
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I disagree, I am an expert at not doing it and would call leaving the controls unattended normalization of deviancy.
 
bflynn said:
I disagree, I am an expert at not doing it and would call leaving the controls unattended normalization of deviancy.
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besides this being a bizarre argument about why something could be done (you never having done it), it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. the OP didn't ask if it's normal or against the rules or if you've done it before or if you do or don't have an autopilot or anything other than 'is it possible'. well, technically he also asked if it was safe, but still. the only answer to the question is yes, it is possible. especially in fiction. now what happens shortly after heading to the back of the plane, who knows, who cares, it's his book.
 
Physically it’s totally doable, I’ve done it myself. I wasn’t pic, but easily got out of the right seat to the back of the plane to grab some drinks and snacks.
I could see the autopilot adjusting the trim as I moved back forward.
A 208 has a huge cabin compared to any 100 series Cessna.
 
Scott Hicks said:
… I'm a stickler for details.…
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That concept and fiction are incompatible. You’re literally making stuff up. But if you’ve decided to put a 208 in your story, is it a Caravan or a Grand Caravan? Why a solo pilot and not single pilot (hint,
solo is most commonly an initial training requirement and a 208 is not a likely initial training platform)?

Either do the research with a company that will walk you through the scene on the ground (and be willing to pay for it) or accept it’s made up.
 
TCABM said:
That concept and fiction are incompatible.
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This^^. If Maverick can find a fueled, armed, flyable F-14 in the middle of a bombed out airport in a rogue nation and take out two 5th generation fighters with it... then a pilot in your story can get from the cockpit to the back cabin no matter what aircraft it is.;)
 
eman1200 said:
besides this being a bizarre argument about why something could be done (you never having done it), it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. the OP didn't ask if it's normal or against the rules or if you've done it before or if you do or don't have an autopilot or anything other than 'is it possible'. well, technically he also asked if it was safe, but still. the only answer to the question is yes, it is possible. especially in fiction. now what happens shortly after heading to the back of the plane, who knows, who cares, it's his book.
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Not only is it possible, it is possible to do it safely.

"But but but you broke the regs, Z0mg! You will die !!1!1!11"

Yeah, I also don't buckle up when idling from the hangar to the fuel pumps. Haven't died yet. Yawn.
 
Bell206 said:
This^^. If Maverick can find a fueled, armed, flyable F-14 in the middle of a bombed out airport in a rogue nation and take out two 5th generation fighters with it... then a pilot in your story can get from the cockpit to the back cabin no matter what aircraft it is.;)
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PLEASE EDIT!!!!!!! SPOILER ALERT!!!!!
 
Bell206 said:
This^^. If Maverick can find a fueled, armed, flyable F-14 in the middle of a bombed out airport in a rogue nation and take out two 5th generation fighters with it... then a pilot in your story can get from the cockpit to the back cabin no matter what aircraft it is.;)
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To be fair, Maverick only took out one 5th gen fighter with a 45 yr old fighter. Bagman got the other with an F-18.
 
Scott Hicks said:
To be fair, Maverick only took out one 5th gen fighter with a 45 yr old fighter. Bagman got the other with an F-18.
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There were three 5th gen fighters shot down and Maverick became an ace.;)
 
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