Dumb Country Pilot with ATC Question

[oldShar]

If you're not penetrating Charlie, you don't need a clearance as long as you stay below 2300'
Usually if a Delta posts a Clearance freq, it's usually used for during those periods when the tower is closed --- otherwise Ground will issue them if/when they are needed (as if you placed a FF request during your callup). Otherwise just squawk VFR (1200)

 

[SoonerAviator]

If you're not penetrating Charlie, you don't need a clearance as long as you stay below 2300'
Usually if a Delta posts a Clearance freq, it's usually used for during those periods when the tower is closed --- otherwise Ground will issue them if/when they are needed (as if you placed a FF request during your callup). Otherwise just squawk VFR (1200)

True, but Tulsa Class C is generally not too busy and laid-back it's almost silly not to call them up 20nm out. They don't bother you too much with vectoring and such for VFR, so you'll likely be flying direct-to anyway as long as it isn't across the approach/departure path of TUL.

 

[Dbarbee]

If you're not penetrating Charlie, you don't need a clearance as long as you stay below 2300'
Usually if a Delta posts a Clearance freq, it's usually used for during those periods when the tower is closed --- otherwise Ground will issue them if/when they are needed (as if you placed a FF request during your callup). Otherwise just squawk VFR (1200)

That is true, and you can depart KRVS without talking to TUL Departure by adding "Negative Radar" to your initial call-up, squawking 1200, and staying clear of the Class C. You can also land at KRVS without talking to TUL approach by calling the tower directly as you normally would and letting them know that you're "negative radar."

However, with 4 Part 141 flight schools, a large number of international student pilots, half a dozen or more Part 61 flight schools, multiple news and lifeflight helicopters based on the field, and the close proximity to KTUL, I would highly recommend at least getting Class C service when arriving or departing KRVS.

KRVS is not the typical sleepy Class D airport.

 

[azure]

There are exceptions at some Class D airports, albeit very rare ones. Teterboro, NJ (KTEB) is one of them. The ATIS specifically says that all departures need to contact CD. Heaven help you if don't.

The most common exception is if the airspace is a TRSA. The ones I'm familiar with in MI have you contact CD, though this may not be the case everywhere. Definitely, listen to the ATIS and do what it says.

If you don't hear anything on the ATIS, though, I would definitely just call ground at a Class D field.

If you don't hear anything on the ATIS, double check the frequency. Or turn up the volume...

 

[AggieMike88]

Wonder where else I need to go sharpen the axe.

Let's go to lunch sometime in Dallas.... AFTER landing at KDAL... Once you have been in and out of there successfully, you'll really feel like a pro.

 

[AggieMike88]

After OSH, lets go flying.
I will come up there to make a Pizza run or bring you down here and we will try to go through the DFW Bravo.
I will PM you my number or find you next week and hook up.

Add me to the roster of folks who will go with on this mission.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

L

Let's go to lunch sometime in Dallas.... AFTER landing at KDAL... Once you have been in and out of there successfully, you'll really feel like a pro.

Do they have a landing fee?

 

[AggieMike88]

Modest one... You buy food, I'll pay fee.

 

[eman1200]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW

 

[Dbarbee]

Modest one... You buy food, I'll pay fee.

I don't remember ever paying a landing fee at KDAL when I've been down there in my 172, and the ramp fee at Business Jet Center was always waived with fuel purchase. Be sure to ask for the AirNav price.

KDAL is a great place to venture into class B. ATC is great and the airport layout isn't too complicated.

 

[OkieFlyer]

Holy smokes, you guys are awesome! Thank you so much for all the great information. I feel much more prepared already.

Special thanks to the T-town guys (includes Sapulpa/BA residents) for the extremely specific info. I was hoping some of you would chime in.


Fortunately, I do know the lay of the land, and I do occasionally fly into Harvey Young with Tulsa Approach. Generally, if departing to the south out of Harvey Young, I just head due south under the class C until I'm south of the river, which is just a few minutes. My nervousness about RVS stems from my very first discovery flight that I took at Spartan. It was by far the busiest airport I've been to in a light aircraft, and frankly, I've simply allowed myself to be intimidated by it. It doesn't even compare to Ardmore, Westheimer, or Enid Woodring class Ds, maybe somewhat comparable to Wiley Post. Anywho, I'll get it done and I'm sure it'll be no problem with the all the great help from the POAers. Can't get better if I don't go do it

Thanks again, Y'all.


Edit: YEEEEEEEEHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWWW @eman1200
You do know that not all hicks are cowboys right?

 

[OkieFlyer]

Hey, I just wanted to express my appreciation to all of you who commented here. The trip into and out of KRVS and the Tulsa Class C was a breeze, and the trip to Oshkosh and back was fantastic. I also got flight following for the entire trip to and from Oshkosh which included quite a few handoffs, and gave me an opportunity both practice my own communications, and to listen to more polished folks talking to the various approach and departure controllers along the way. As it turns out, I'm not as bad as I thought. I got quite a bit of practice on this 11 hour round trip, and I appreciate very much the confidence boost you guys/gals gave me before I left the ground.

To the Tulsa area boys, we ought to hook up one of these days when I'm in town for some flyin' and visitation.

Thanks again,
Andrew

 

[James331]

ATIS

Clearance Del (where you are, where you want to go, altitude VFR or IFR)

Ground, taxi with information Alpha, bravo whatever

Holding short, tower, Cessna123 ready to go 15 and Alpha 1

Tower to ATC if you're wanting flight following, clearence should give you the freq for this.

 

[mscard88]

I'm so fed up with this BS response. STOP telling people not to worry about what to say. I know what you're TRYING to do......."don't be so concerned with phraseology that you let it get in the way", I get it. everyone freakin gets it. you are right. but he seems to be, as others have done when you've thrown this garbage their way, asking 'WHAT INFORMATION, TO WHOM do I relay it to, and how do I do so without stumbling and fumbling and clogging up the radio?'. There is NOTHING wrong with asking this question, especially here on the forum. and there IS a requirement, as usually presented on ATIS..........."advise direction of flight and requested altitude blah blah".

there may not be a REQUIREMENT on language, but there is a proper way and a bad way. if you want want examples of bad ways, watch Mr. Aviation101's videos. if you are flying into charlie/bravo or other uncharted territory (for you) then ASK HERE and you'll most likely get an answer that will HELP YOU with that process. will it meet some sort of documented lingo? NO, because as bob points out, there isn't any, but if you are unsure, PLEASE CONTINUE TO ASK HERE so people can advise you what is widely accepted practice, and so you will feel more comfortable when you actually get in that situation.

bob's point is "just ask in english if you aren't sure". and I hope WE ALL GET THAT. as for who to call and what to say, the rest of us have answered that question for you.

bob, no disrespect, but maybe you just need to read between the lines a little better. I think this post was more a general process question than a word-for-word reference type question.

Damn eman, that was good and on point. Likey!

 

[eman1200]

Damn eman, that was good and on point. Likey!

eh, I mean look......bob is a much smarter pilot than I'll ever be. I have a lot of respect for him. IN MY OPINION he is not sending the right MESSAGE. although he is stating correct INFORMATION. and it's been the same message in a lot of recent posts where people are asking for help/guidance, so I got angry, whatever.

as a side note, doesn't it seem rather odd that a person who wrote a book on radio communications says not to worry about radio communications?


and finally, yeeeeeeeeeeehhaaaawwwwwwww!

 

[mscard88]

Oops, I forgot that...... yeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww!

edit: mine's longer than yours is, & Cajun did say something about big ones, is this what she meant?

 

[bobmrg]

eh, I mean look......bob is a much smarter pilot than I'll ever be. I have a lot of respect for him. IN MY OPINION he is not sending the right MESSAGE. although he is stating correct INFORMATION. and it's been the same message in a lot of recent posts where people are asking for help/guidance, so I got angry, whatever.

as a side note, doesn't it seem rather odd that a person who wrote a book on radio communications says not to worry about radio communications?


and finally, yeeeeeeeeeeehhaaaawwwwwwww!

It bugs me when a newbie or low-timer is so in fear of saying the wrong thing that they avoid situations where communications are required. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of pilots who will not fly into B/C/D airspace or use flight following because of this unreasoning fear. I will continue to quote the AIM on the subject. I do not tell people not to worry about communications, I tell them not to worry about specific phraseology.

Bob

 

[OkieFlyer]

Haha! You guys crack me up!

As far as Bob is concerned, I really do appreciate his expertise. I mean, that dude knows A LOT about A LOT! I certainly understand that he's trying to ease some of the pressure that some of us may feel about ATC comms. I think he's absolutely right to a degree. In my case, I wasn't afraid to just call up and just muddle through, and I know if I had to do it that way, we'd get 'er done. However, as you guys noticed, I was trying to go a little beyond that and prepare myself to communicate properly and anticipate what's coming, as well as answer the question about using clearance delivery, since I had never done it before. You guys helped a bunch in that regard, and helped me get my rural azz on the right track. Much obliged.

 

[OkieFlyer]

It bugs me when a newbie or low-timer is so in fear of saying the wrong thing that they avoid situations where communications are required. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of pilots who will not fly into B/C/D airspace or use flight following because of this unreasoning fear. I will continue to quote the AIM on the subject. I do not tell people not to worry about communications, I tell them not to worry about specific phraseology.

Bob

I appreciate it Bob.

I'd also like to say that along the 1438 NM route to OSH and back, every single controller I encountered was fantastic! If I did make any blunders (which I'm pretty sure I did) they took it in stride and never made me feel like I was bugging them. I know the Chicago area controllers were extremely busy, and probably too busy to be taking on a C182 on VFR Flight Following, but they did what they could. I applaud everyone of them from Tulsa to Springfield, MO to Whiteman AFB to MIZZOU Approach to Quad Cities, to Rockford, IL to Oshkosh and back again. Top notch in my book!