Duke down and on fire, Fullerton CA

Even with 380HP a side, that plane should not Vmc roll that quickly after rotation with a proper takeoff speed. As was alluded to above, possibly he was slow at liftoff due to a short field? Also it looks like the plane pitches up right before roll, maybe the pilot inadvertently pulled back while reacting to the engine out and that was just enough speed reduction to reach Vmc? Another possibility is he hit the wrong rudder? Ultimately no matter what the cause, it appears this was a worst case scenario for the pilot to deal with. Tragic video to watch, RIP.
 
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lots of conflicting info.
There is rumored to be another video showing that this was not a departure but rather a go around.
Hard to tell but I don't see anything in the video that looks distinctly like landing gear hanging down but the quality is crappy too.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
lots of conflicting info.
There is rumored to be another video showing that this was not a departure but rather a go around.
Hard to tell but I don't see anything in the video that looks distinctly like landing gear hanging down but the quality is crappy too.
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It was not a go around. I was there and watched him take off. I started to drive away after he lifted off and then saw the fireball.
 
Skates97 said:
It was not a go around. I was there and watched him take off. I started to drive away after he lifted off and then saw the fireball.
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ugh. That's horrible. I can't imagine seeing that.
 
That vid is scary to watch. Can happen quickly. Before you know what is going on it’s too late. God bless.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
After seeing that, I wouldn't rule out some sort of control issue (gust lock?) Or even a simple two-engines-running stall.
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I am speculating here. Watching the video it appears that the plane may be climbing at or near VX.

I did not look it up but again I am speculating, I am guessing there might be a noise abatement procedure in place. Something along the lines of climb as quickly as able until XX altitude for noise abatement. So possibility that it might have been a stall. But like I said, I have no proof, just pure speculation.
 
Zeldman said:
I am speculating here. Watching the video it appears that the plane may be climbing at or near VX.

I did not look it up but again I am speculating, I am guessing there might be a noise abatement procedure in place. Something along the lines of climb as quickly as able until XX altitude for noise abatement. So possibility that it might have been a stall. But like I said, I have no proof, just pure speculation.
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There are noise abatement procedures, Runway 06 is preferred and when departing 06 to follow the railroad and no turns until 1000' AGL. Taking off on Runway 24, no turns before 700' AGL. I do not think that played any role here.
 
dtuuri said:
It wouldn't be the first crash caused by a taxiing helicopter.
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The helicopter pilot posted elsewhere. He was waiting for a release when it happened. He lifted off and got out of the way only to avoid the fire.
 
Man, that happened quickly. Scary stuff.

I know you guys must breathe at least a little sigh of relief on takeoff when you get a few hundred feet between you and the ground. If something goes wrong, there's simply more time to process and respond.
 
Fallsrider said:
Man, that happened quickly. Scary stuff.

I know you guys must breathe at least a little sigh of relief on takeoff when you get a few hundred feet between you and the ground. If something goes wrong, there's simply more time to process and respond.
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An engine out close to the ground (or anywhere else) is a bad even for any of us, single or twin fliers. Just different sets of responses to the event.
 
dtuuri said:
It wouldn't be the first crash caused by a taxiing helicopter.
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This was written in the active. HE almost nailed that helicopter that was peacefully sitting on the ramp.
 
Bill Jennings said:
An engine out close to the ground (or anywhere else) is a bad even for any of us, single or twin fliers. Just different sets of responses to the event.
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Yeah, I was making that statement to all pilots on here. Sorry if that was confusing.
 
Zeldman said:
Wow......

3 seconds to live.

Someone mentioned control lock, I hope that wasn't what happened.
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In all of the Beech aircraft I’ve flown, the elevator is in a slightly nose-down position when the controls are locked...Looks like this one rotated too soon for that to be the case.

Based on what @Skates97 posted, it looks to me like he lifted off early for whatever reason...I think 1000 feet is an awfully short takeoff distance for that airplane.
 
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weilke said:
This was written in the active. HE almost nailed that helicopter that was peacefully sitting on the ramp.
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I didn't know that when I posted. OTOH, as far as the video goes, you can't tell what he might have been doing BEFORE he was "peacefully sitting". He might have been airborne and sat back down. I noticed the wind sock was from the left—rotor wash could have drifted. But, frankly, if I were to bet...I'd bet the trim was set for landing.
 
A little late to the game, I have been off grid for the last two weeks.

I have never seen a Duke climb that steeply after rotation. They aren't known for stellar climb performance down low. My thoughts are possibly either the pilot over-rotated and stalled, or had a pitch issue that caused a stall. The airplane was quite nose up before it departed controlled flight.
 
Pilawt said:
I learned to fly on that runway. Even in a light single, the fence at the other end starts looking real big, real close, real fast.
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Agreed...I fly into FUL all the time and that thing looks REALLY close on takeoff even though there is plenty of runway and I am familiar with it. On hot days I find myself in short field takeoff mentality when departing 24
 
Sobering lesson to not rush or get distracted doing preflight checklist
 
..and maybe not to use weird control locks. On the positive side, this looks like a good report by the NTSB. This pilot's mistake, and that report, could save someone else from a similar fate. I know that's the way the system is supposed to work, but it doesn't always work that way.
 
Wow. Just wow. The crazy thing is that the accident had all the hallmarks of a Vmc roll and Dukes are known for requiring a ton of rudder, so most folks were thinking the guy just was rotating under red line at FUL to clear the fence at the end of the short runway.
 
"Flight controls free and correct"

I check this at least 3 times before takeoff:
1) Preflight
2) Pre-takeoff/runup checks
3) taxi from the runup to the runway

This is so ingrained in my routine I don't know how any distraction or pressure could make me skip all three checks.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
"Flight controls free and correct"

I check this at least 3 times before takeoff:
1) Preflight
2) Pre-takeoff/runup checks
3) taxi from the runup to the runway

This is so ingrained in my routine I don't know how any distraction or pressure could make me skip all three checks.
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Seriously. My flight control checks are as follows:

1) Immediately after start. Like just after turning off the pump and leaning, while the radios are turning on. I'm not big on hand manipulation of controls, beyond what is needed for visual inspection.

2) During taxi.

3) Just after run up.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
"Flight controls free and correct"

I check this at least 3 times before takeoff:
1) Preflight
2) Pre-takeoff/runup checks
3) taxi from the runup to the runway

This is so ingrained in my routine I don't know how any distraction or pressure could make me skip all three checks.
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In addition to your method, I also physically move the control surfaces as part of my preflight inspection.
 
3393RP said:
In addition to your method, I also physically move the control surfaces as part of my preflight inspection.
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Yeah, like I said, I'm not big on that. Non mechanics can do a lot of unwitting damages to things like aileron tabs and the like.
 
If the flight controls aren't free and correct the plane doesn't leave the hangar. They are part of my pre-flight checks. I look and see that the yoke moves in the right direction when the elevator and ailerons are moved and the rudder is free. Failure of any of these and the maintenance officer for that plane gets a call. Fortunately, in 21 years I have yet to fail a plane for this reason. Other reasons, yes.
 
Albany Tom said:
..and maybe not to use weird control locks. On the positive side, this looks like a good report by the NTSB. This pilot's mistake, and that report, could save someone else from a similar fate. I know that's the way the system is supposed to work, but it doesn't always work that way.
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Yep, great work by the NTSB. Initial explanation seemed obvious, but they dug deeper.

On an earlier thread in this forum, a member was mocked for suggesting more and better cameras on airfields. Check this sequence out.

pitch up.JPG
 
3393RP said:
In addition to your method, I also physically move the control surfaces as part of my preflight inspection.
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During preflight, I check control movement both from the control surface and from the flight controls. This allows me to sense abnormal "feel" from both ends. I have cancelled a flight when I felt unusual friction in the ailerons, which turned out to be a side panel recently reinstalled causing rubbing on a control cable pulley.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I check this at least 3 times before takeoff:
1) Preflight
2) Pre-takeoff/runup checks
3) taxi from the runup to the runway
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I had the controls seize up on a C-414 during the take off roll, after checking free and correct before entering the runway. Then the controls freed up after I exited the runway.

Scary part was the plane spent the next three days in the shop and the guys never did find out why it happened, but it never happened again while I was still there.
 
N1120A said:
Yeah, like I said, I'm not big on that. Non mechanics can do a lot of unwitting damages to things like aileron tabs and the like.
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I don't bang on them or force movement. While inspecting the various hinges, tracks, flight surfaces, and mounting arrangements, I verify they move freely. There's no way this procedure can damage anything, and I literally will not board an airplane until this inspection is performed.
 
3393RP said:
I don't bang on them or force movement. While inspecting the various hinges, tracks, flight surfaces, and mounting arrangements, I verify they move freely. There's no way this procedure can damage anything, and I literally will not board an airplane before performing this inspection.
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This is different and I agree it is a good practice. I see people yank stuff up and down all the time and just cringe
 
So which is more damaging across the whole pilot community... leaving your controls in the wind to bang around, or the few idiots who jury-rig gust locks, forget them, and sail into a fiery crater?
 
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