Ducking for helo blades?

Velocity173 said:
I remember walking up the ramp at 0200 AM and looking up at the exhaust. It was glowing red hot. Always wondered if those things had any IR suppression.
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We (ARSOF) got IR suppressors with the G model. F models got a different system. When we were getting ripped out by the first G model unit, we were in an un-suppressed Echo flying formation on them and when we got our usual separation, we had a hard time "following the smiling frog", as the exhaust cans were very effective.
 
Flymy47 said:
We (ARSOF) got IR suppressors with the G model. F models got a different system. When we were getting ripped out by the first G model unit, we were in an un-suppressed Echo flying formation on them and when we got our usual separation, we had a hard time "following the smiling frog", as the exhaust cans were very effective.
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Lol! I’ve never heard that expression but it’s right on. I followed a D model into a LZ in Afghanistan once at night. They completely browned out the LZ but I saw two bright green circles. Probably should’ve done a go around but I figured if they stay upright, then I’ll be upright. ;)
 
Velocity173 said:
Lol! I’ve never heard that expression but it’s right on. I followed a D model into a LZ in Afghanistan once at night. They completely browned out the LZ but I saw two bright green circles. Probably should’ve done a go around but I figured if they stay upright, then I’ll be upright. ;)
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I stole that expression from our Blackhawk guys!
 
The forward transmission shows more IR than the engines with the latest IR suppression system on the F. There are heat absorbing panels over the cooling air exhausts. We had thermal blankets inside the forward pylon for a while, but it got so hot, it baked everything plastic, like swashplate seals! :eek:
 
IK04 said:
The forward transmission shows more IR than the engines with the latest IR suppression system on the F. There are heat absorbing panels over the cooling air exhausts. We had thermal blankets inside the forward pylon for a while, but it got so hot, it baked everything plastic, like swashplate seals! :eek:
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We put a set of those line-of-sight blockers on one of our aircraft for testing, but the survey results didn't do much for us, so REGT passed on it. These new-ish systems, like the suppressors and IRCM, almost give you a shred of hope to survive a MANPAD engagement!
 
I had a passenger walk in to a prop one time, thankfully with only minor injuries since it wasn't running.

We had just pushed the plane back into its spot, which was slightly slopped. I asked my friend to chock the nose gear while I kept the plane from rolling. Coming in edge on, the prop was basically invisible and she gashed her forehead as she ducked to place the chocks. Fortunately the gash healed up without scarring.
 
To duck or not really depends on the type of helicopter. Some years ago, I and another pilot were assigned to transport a group of "suits" around the Scott Paper operations north of Mobile. We parked next to one of Scott's Kaman K-Max logging helicopters. You've seen them. Two rotor heads and the blades mounted on a bias so that the two rotor heads mesh together like an egg beater. It had a big notice painted on each side that said to "only approach/depart to the front." 12 o'clock. lots of Clearence when the blades are fore and aft, not so much when the blades are at 3 or 9 o'clock.
Trivia pause: Why was Charlie Kaman's aircraft factory called the "Kaman Guitar works?"
We provided a Sikorsky S-76A to the inspection party. Hot day. High DA. Full load. Tight LZ's amid the tree farms. The new owner was aboard. Al "Chainsaw Al" Dunlop. He had just bought Remington Razors and "parted it out." Doing the same for Scott. Always scowling.
We gave a detailed briefing to the 10 or 12 passengers and emphasized that approach when the blades are turning MUST be at 3 or 9 o'clock. We loaded up while shut down and held everyone on board till the blades stopped. The S-76 has a fwd cant to the rotor mast and tip path is lowest at 12 o'clock. Pilot must hold full aft cyclic when idling. To the point of mast bumping.
Most of my S-76 ops were offshore Gulf of Mexico and many times were to vessels. At times under way. Because the lowest point of the rotor tip path plane is 12 o'clock. Approach and depart to 3 & 9 o'clock ONLY. It's written on the nose similar to the K-Max. Despite being briefed, this 6'4" gent wearing cowboy boots decided to conference with someone on the deck, 12 o'clock under the tips of the idling rotors. You guessed it. It knocked his Stetson off and grazed his head. Concussion.
The b.s. between incoming and departing passengers is discouraged because if anything goes wrong, it's a crowd killer.
One of my favorite movies is Deepwater Horizon. And that is just what is shown in the opening scenes. In real life Transocean (owner) would not permit it.
BTW, the tailrotor on a S-76 measures 6'8" from the bottom of the TR blade to the deck. Don't know of any TR injuries with this type.
 
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Maxnr said:
To duck or not really depends on the type of helicopter. Some years ago, I and another pilot were assigned to transport a group of "suits" around the Scott Paper operations north of Mobile. We parked next to one of Scott's Kaman K-Max logging helicopters. You've seen them. Two rotor heads and the blades mounted on a bias so that the two rotor heads mesh together like an egg beater. It had a big notice painted on each side that said to "only approach/depart to the front." 12 o'clock. lots of Clearence when the blades are fore and aft, not so much when the blades are at 3 or 9 o'clock.
Trivia pause: Why was Charlie Kaman's aircraft factory called the "Kaman Guitar works?"
We provided a Sikorsky S-76A to the inspection party. Hot day. High DA. Full load. Tight LZ's amid the tree farms. The new owner was aboard. Al "Chainsaw Al" Dunlop. He had just bought Remington Razors and "parted it out." Doing the same for Scott. Always scowling.
We gave a detailed briefing to the 10 or 12 passengers and emphasized that approach when the blades are turning MUST be at 3 or 9 o'clock. We loaded up while shut down and held everyone on board till the blades stopped. The S-76 has a fwd cant to the rotor mast and tip path is lowest at 12 o'clock. Pilot must hold full aft cyclic when idling. To the point of mast bumping.
Most of my SK-76 ops were offshore Gulf of Mexico and many times were to vessels. At times under way. Because the lowest point of the rotor tip path plane is 12 o'clock. Approach and depart to 3 & 9 o'clock ONLY. It's written on the nose similar to the K-Max. Despite being briefed, this 6'4" gent wearing cowboy boots decided to conference with someone on the deck, 12 o'clock under the tips of the idling rotors. You guessed it. It knocked his Stetson off and grazed his head. Concussion.
The b.s. between incoming and departing passengers is discouraged because if anything goes wrong, it a crowd killer.
One of my favorite movies is Deepwater Horizon. And that is just what is shown in the opening scenes. In real life Transocean (owner) would not permit it.
BTW, the tailrotor on a SK-76 measures 6'8" from the bottom of the TR blade to the deck. Don't know of any TR injuries with this type.
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Yeah, 3 & 9 being the most important safety advice. If you get hit there, then something serious (droop stop, mast bump, blade pin failure) went wrong with that aircraft. If that’s the case, won’t matter how low you duck. Of course, know your surroundings though and don’t walk up a slope at the 3 & 9. Then again, I don’t think I’ve ever landed so close to a slope that it was a head hazard.

The UH-60’s tail is 6’6” from the deck. Saw an AF MSG walk right under it once at idle. Everyone yelling in the ICS “get that guy!” Missed it by inches.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah, 3 & 9 being the most important safety advice. If you get hit there, then something serious (droop stop, mast bump, blade pin failure) went wrong with that aircraft. If that’s the case, won’t matter how low you duck. Of course, know your surroundings though and don’t walk up a slope at the 3 & 9. Then again, I don’t think I’ve ever landed so close to a slope that it was a head hazard.

The UH-60’s tail is 6’6” from the deck. Saw an AF MSG walk right under it once at idle. Everyone yelling in the ICS “get that guy!” Missed it by inches.
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It always amazes me what little sense of self preservation some have, or just lack of situational awareness.
 
midwestpa24 said:
It always amazes me what little sense of self preservation some have, or just lack of situational awareness.
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Yep. Part of the problem though was the guy had no pax brief. In theater, people are hoping rides on helicopters like getting on a bus. Probably 90 % of the time they stay running to save time. Various methods were tried such as putting pax briefing cards at LZs, putting them in the seat backs, etc. Nothing really worked. So you had people jumping in a helicopter and in some cases, no clue about avoidance areas.

We assumed that if everyone just followed the crew chiefs directions, that would mitigate the risks but there’s always one. This particular MSG was trying to load on the left side, saw that the only empty seat was on the right. Took it upon himself to walk around the back to get to the right. Of course you’d think it would be common sense that one would think walking to the rear of a helicopter while it’s running would be bad. Not only did he walk around it, he maintained constant contact with the aircraft with his left hand. I’m sure he heard somewhere that the safest way to walk around a helo. In this case, it took him directly under the tail rotor 6’6” from the ground. If they were heavy or the tail strut wasn’t serviced properly, that guy would have lost his head.
 
Maxnr said:
Trivia pause: Why was Charlie Kaman's aircraft factory called the "Kaman Guitar works?"
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The Ovation Guitar company was a dba for KMCMusicorp, which itself was a subsidiary of Kaman Aircraft.
 
IK04 said:
The Ovation Guitar company was a dba for KMCMusicorp, which itself was a subsidiary of Kaman Aircraft.
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Ta Da! Charlie Kaman was a guitar fan and he bought and installed the "guitar works" on an unused upper floor of the Kaman factory building. Some of my fellow pilots had flown the SH-2 SeaSprite on active duty and were always talking about Kaman.
I had a co-pilot at one time who had test pilot experience on the SH-2.
 
midwestpa24 said:
It always amazes me what little sense of self preservation some have, or just lack of situational awareness.
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You'll find its as simple as a lack of visual ques to the danger regardless the training or awareness a person has. If one can't see the danger humans tend to dismiss the reality of it which is described in most studies on the subject. You can give a person all the training available, develop their situational awareness, and tell them that helicopter out there will kill you, yet someone will walk into a T/R or M/R blade when the slightest thing outside the norm happens. Have seen it happen, prevented it from happening, and been caught up in it myself. Thankfully all this training and briefing keeps incidents of blade/prop very very low but without the ability to actually see the spinning prop or blades our minds will automatically lose track of that danger.

The most sobering example of this happened in the mid-90s when a father with years of helicopter ops experience returned from a trip with his 2 kids. He systematically led his children from the running helicopter to the waiting nanny and returned to the helicopter. His 4 year old daughter broke free and ran to her dad to say goodby. He reflexively picked her up in his usual manner, hoisting her to his shoulders. Unfortunately he was under the rotor disk and she was killed instantly. The pilot was helpless. The father killed himself a number of years later.
 
In Alaska, my first year flying, I was being punished for something and was assigned to fly the 172 for the day.

I did a charter from Bethel to Napakiak, about a 10 to 12 minute flight taking a native couple back home. As I was landing, I dropped my pencil. It landed near my left foot, so I figured I would wait and retrieve it after I parked. I parked, shut down the engine and leaned over to open the right side door. The passengers just had a couple plastic bags, so no need for me to get out. The passengers egressed, and I closed the door, shoved in the mixture, set the throttle and turned on the master switch. Then remembering my pencil, I leaned over and picked it up. As I sat up this little girl, approximately 4 years old appeared from in front of the plane to the left side of the cowling, right in the arc area of the prop.

I almost soiled myself as it hit me, if I had not leaned over to pick up my pencil I would have ground that little girl into hamburger.

Yes, I should have taken 30 seconds to get out and walk around the plane before starting up. Something I made a habit of doing ever since that day.
 
While no one gets whacked here that disk looks awfully close to their heads. One wheel down, cyclic into the wheel and rising terrain. :eek:

 
Well, might not kill ya. You’ll get down in a hurry though. ;)Precisely why tour aircraft (NYC debacle) shouldn't have pax up front.
 
Why was the pilot touching it in the first place? That got the monkey see, monkey do started.
 
Velocity173 said:
While no one gets whacked here that disk looks awfully close to their heads. One wheel down, cyclic into the wheel and rising terrain. :eek:

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I just watched that, and it looked to me like no one who boarded the helicopter actually crossed through the area of minimum clearance between the blades and the terrain. The seemed to be pre-positioned to make that unnecessary.
 
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