Drunk Bob...

AuntPeggy

AuntPeggy

Final Approach
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... drove his car into a house we own. Well, almost.

There was a car in the driveway and drunk bob didn't notice that the cross street dead-ends in our driveway, so he just plowed into the end of the car parked in the driveway with enough force to push the car into the garage door and pretty much destroy it.

There was a car in the garage and the force of the car in the driveway, pushed the car in the garage into the utility room wall and seriously damaged that wall.

All the cars stopped. They really didn't get into the house.

Many years ago, this house was owned by Hubby and his first wife as their home. After his divorce, he got the house and has rented it out ever since. Now comes Bob's insurance company offering us $2300, but Hubby has to sign a PROPERTY DAMAGE RELEASE before they will send the check. Our rental agent has gotten a quote from a contractor for $3200 and she has also found a handyman who says he will do the work for the $2300.

I'm not sure that this is a good deal.

I'm going to go inspect the damage Saturday and talk to the renters. We might just sell the house, but since there hasn't been a recovery in that town following the housing meltdown, it can only be sold at a loss.
 
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AuntPeggy said:
... drove his car into a house we own. Well, almost.

There was a car in the driveway and drunk bob didn't notice that the cross street dead-ends in our driveway, so he just plowed into the end of the car parked in the driveway with enough force to push the car into the garage door and pretty much destroy it.

There was a car in the garage and the force of the car in the driveway, pushed the car in the garage into the utility room wall and seriously damaged that wall.

All the cars stopped. They really didn't get into the house.

Many years ago, this house was owned by Hubby and his first wife as their home. After his divorce, he got the house and has rented it out ever since. Now comes Bob's insurance company offering us $2300, but Hubby has to sign a PROPERTY DAMAGE RELEASE before they will send the check. Our rental agent has gotten a quote from a contractor for $3200 and she has also found a handyman who says he will do the work for the $2300.

I'm not sure that this is a good deal.

I'm going to go inspect the damage Saturday and talk to the renters. We might just sell the house, but since there hasn't been a recovery in that town following the housing meltdown, it can only be sold at a loss.
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I would strongly recommend you have the house inspected by a civil or structural engineer before you sign off. If it's a bearing wall, that affects the structural integrity of the house, and repairs could be significantly more than $3200.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I would strongly recommend you have the house inspected by a civil or structural engineer before you sign off. If it's a bearing wall, that affects the structural integrity of the house, and repairs could be significantly more than $3200.
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And a lawyer to determine if you have any recourse with Drunk Bob.
 
Don't sign anything away.

The fun part of a lot of insurance repair work - whoever does the estimates doesn't really know what's underneath until they start tearing things open. And if that wall is load bearing, you might end up with other headaches.

Get your own insurance company on the case.

edit: Single garage door? Double-wide garage door? The door(s) and tracks will need to be replaced. Garage door opener? Might be damaged, might not. Sheetrock, stud wall, electrical, paint, vinyl or tile in the utility room, ... That's just a quick list.

edit: Just thought of another - is there a gas line inside that wall for a clothes dryer in the utility room? What about cabinets?
 
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AP.... I agree with everything that has been said....... If the damage is like you said, I can't see 2,300 fixing it.... As the other posted suggested.. if there is a structural issue then all bets are off.....

DON"T sign any release from the Insurance Company....:no::no:...:nono:
 
If nothing else, you never accept the first offer from another insurance company. I agree with the others, get some pros involved representing you.
 
Brad Z said:
If nothing else, you never accept the first offer from another insurance company. I agree with the others, get some pros involved representing you.
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So far, nobody that's given you a quote is on your side. Bob's ins/co has given you a quote, and your rental agent has gotten her buddy to come up with another estimate.

Get your own ins/co involved so they can get an adjuster out, and call a couple of contractors for their own estimates. Bob's ins/co will be paying the bills, so look out for your own interests and get it done right.
 
More like $23,000 to fix it, not $2300.
 
Insurance companies will often low ball the first offer. Only problem is you have to incur time and legal expenses to get anything more. Still, the damage could be quite extensive, so I would heed the advice you've been given.
 
Many lawyers, insurance company's many letters back and forth, interogatories, song without end. That's what insurance is all about.
 
Aunt Peggy - remember the American way.
Sue the b'strds, one and all.

A few hundred dollars for a lawyer to file suits (they Love it) has a most invigorating and salutary effect on the conniving to see the light..
 
I don't want you to think I'm a slum landlord, but ...

850 square feet, 3 bedrooms, wood frame, single-car garage, built in 1950s, 1/4 acre. Tenants are mom, dad, 5 children. Run-down neighborhood. The town doesn't have any good employers any more and has been slowly dying.

The absolute maximum I could sell the house for is $25000. It has been uninsurable for the past 5 years, so I don't have an insurance company.

My thinking goes this way:

Assuming the repairs actually cost $5,000
Assuming I sue the insurance company and drunk bob for $5000.
Courts expect me to settle for less than the amount sued for, usually 50%.
Assuming I hold out for $3200 and get it.
Lawyer takes 30% ($960).
I end up with $2240 and an interesting story to tell.

Tell me where this reasoning goes wrong.
 
if you want $5,000 then file suit for $10,000 plus legal costs....

gotta be able to play the game
 
Regrettably I have seen this happen to others. That handy man with the $2,300 bid just seems to disappear or moves away or retires after you accept the insurance company's offer. Then when the work costs much more to complete using legitimate contractors, your friendly claims adjuster will react to your calls of protest by faxing you a copy of the signed-by-you release. That adjuster may or may not include hugs and shrugs of despair, as he explains that it's all out of his hands now.

I agree with the previous posts: assemble your team of your property insurance company and your contractors and have your lawyer on standby. Don't sign a release until the paint is dry and the bills are final.

If the $2,300 offer came from your property insurer, and not Bob's, then remove your lawyer from standby, the two of you have some work to do.

Scott

Update: I see you don't have property insurance, sorry. I still think your lawyer will elicit a better settlement from Bob's insurance without litigation.
 
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First, find out what the repairs actually will cost. Get multiple estimates, then you have some leverage with Bob's ins co. You're first assumption may be way off, or not.

And remember that there might be hidden damage and you'll need to figure out a 'worst case'. That's something else to consider when you settle with ins co.

Not to rain any more on your parade, but...

What happens if you settle, and costs end up way higher than you thought? Then you have to decide what to do. Is there the possibility that Drunk Bob-the-tenant could sue YOU for not making repairs?

Edit: I was assuming that Bob was the tenant, but now I'm not sure.
 
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Tell the insurance company THEY can hire the repair people, pay you $0, and then whatever it costs them it costs them, and they don't have to worry about you overestimating.
 
EdFred said:
Tell the insurance company THEY can hire the repair people, pay you $0, and then whatever it costs them it costs them, and they don't have to worry about you overestimating.
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Can that be done?
 
AuntPeggy said:
I don't want you to think I'm a slum landlord, but ...

850 square feet, 3 bedrooms, wood frame, single-car garage, built in 1950s, 1/4 acre. Tenants are mom, dad, 5 children. Run-down neighborhood. The town doesn't have any good employers any more and has been slowly dying.

The absolute maximum I could sell the house for is $25000. It has been uninsurable for the past 5 years, so I don't have an insurance company.

My thinking goes this way:

Assuming the repairs actually cost $5,000
Assuming I sue the insurance company and drunk bob for $5000.
Courts expect me to settle for less than the amount sued for, usually 50%.
Assuming I hold out for $3200 and get it.
Lawyer takes 30% ($960).
I end up with $2240 and an interesting story to tell.

Tell me where this reasoning goes wrong.
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Ok... I give up... Why is it un insurable???:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
Ok... I give up... Why is it un insurable???:dunno:
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Run down neighborhood, already needs repairs? Deductible will be almost as much as the house is worth? Insurance companies worry it's worth more to torch than to fix?

edit: D'oh! Jim beat me to it.
 
Am I missing something?

Two cars are damaged. That's thousands of dollars even if the house is untouched. Or is OK a no-fault state?

And taking those walls apart WILL expose something you didn't expect. That always happens. You may have to upgrade to new code if it has changed.

I had a tree take out my front balcony (sheared off beams) and poke two small holes in the roof. I thought $10K. In reality, it was over $60K. Several surprises, like one of the small holes in the roof just happened to sever a truss. A little bit of rot was found under the siding that had to be removed to twin new beams (fortunately not extensive -- insurance didn't cover that). And so on. This is typical.
 
I had originally assumed that Drunk Bob was the tenant and ran into the house he was renting. But after re-reading, now I'm not sure that's the case.
 
Matthew said:
I had originally assumed that Drunk Bob was the tenant and ran into the house he was renting. But after re-reading, now I'm not sure that's the case.
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No. Drunk Bob is not the tenant.

MAKG1 said:
Am I missing something?

Two cars are damaged. That's thousands of dollars even if the house is untouched. Or is OK a no-fault state?

And taking those walls apart WILL expose something you didn't expect. That always happens. You may have to upgrade to new code if it has changed.

I had a tree take out my front balcony (sheared off beams) and poke two small holes in the roof. I thought $10K. In reality, it was over $60K. Several surprises, like one of the small holes in the roof just happened to sever a truss. A little bit of rot was found under the siding that had to be removed to twin new beams (fortunately not extensive -- insurance didn't cover that). And so on. This is typical.
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Three cars are damaged. Drunk Bob's car, car in driveway, car in garage.
 
By the way, the insurance company figures that it will take $2560 to repair, then they take a depreciation of $250.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Insurance company deems it a bad risk, don't want any part of it, probably in bad neighborhood, etc.
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Matthew said:
Run down neighborhood, already needs repairs? Deductible will be almost as much as the house is worth? Insurance companies worry it's worth more to torch than to fix?

edit: D'oh! Jim beat me to it.
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Right. Insurance company cancelled and we couldn't find another insurer. Possibly could if we were resident homeowners, but since it was a rental, no luck getting insurance.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Right. Insurance company cancelled and we couldn't find another insurer. Possibly could if we were resident homeowners, but since it was a rental, no luck getting insurance.
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Sell it. That is a huge liability from tenants or anyone who stumbles across the property.
 
Well the very bottom line is Drunk Bob has civil liability through his actions, and the "insurance company" in question is DB's auto policy (right?)
 
Matthew said:
Run down neighborhood, already needs repairs? Deductible will be almost as much as the house is worth? Insurance companies worry it's worth more to torch than to fix?

edit: D'oh! Jim beat me to it.
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Hmmmm....

That is outright DISCRIMINATION....:mad2::mad2::mad2:..

Obama needs to sign an executive order to prevent houses in run down neighborhoods from being denied homeowners insurance..:rolleyes:........:lol:
 
AuntPeggy said:
Can that be done?
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Yes. Insurance companies have contractors they work with do do this very thing, but since it's an auto policy, they probably don't.

Pitch it to them to fix it and not pay you anything.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmm....

That is outright DISCRIMINATION....:mad2::mad2::mad2:..

Obama needs to sign an executive order to prevent houses in run down neighborhoods from being denied homeowners insurance..:rolleyes:........:lol:
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The president has gotten a real lesson how powerful insurance company's are and is still being taught. I doubt if he'd sign that. They are among the most powerful in the country and have recently proven it.
 
Just be careful if you can't be there in person and tell the insurance company to handle it themselves. They'll hire some jerk to cover the problems with drywall and leave.
 
John221us said:
Sell it. That is a huge liability from tenants or anyone who stumbles across the property.
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denverpilot said:
Just be careful if you can't be there in person and tell the insurance company to handle it themselves. They'll hire some jerk to cover the problems with drywall and leave.
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+11ty billion.

Unless you are carrying some kind of umbrella policy, what's to protect you from any liability if one of your tenants trips on loose carpet?

And you don't want the other guy's insurance to go with their low cost crap slapper.

You really do need to find out if there is any structural damage (like a load bearing wall). If so, you're going to really rack up the bills for, probably, an engineer, building permit, licensed contractor, and building inspector.
 
Tell the adjustor to pound sand...get your own estimate and do not budge. I just had an employee go through a similar scenario. it took him a dozen phone calls and two meetings but he got quadruple the original adjusters estimate and quite frankly it was barely enough. there was quite a bit of concealed damage to his property that could only be revealed once the sheetrock had been removed. I think Ed might be on to something with the numbers that he has thrown out.

Is there loss of income?


Now to the subject of owning a rental with no insurance...I simply would not put myself in that position AP. me and my agent have been read evaluating our policies on the rental property I hold. The business liability and loss of income while in the grand scheme very cheap are extremely important coverages to carry
 
EdFred said:
More like $23,000 to fix it, not $2300.
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That was my first reaction. I had a quote yesterday to put organizing shelves in a 12 ft reach-in closet that was almost $2,300.
 
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