Drug DUI arrests based on cops’ opinions alone.
- Thread starter genna
- Start date
wanttaja
En-Route
I fly a taildragger with poor forward visibility on the ground, hence I s-turn. Always wondering about a cop being around the airport and stopping me on suspicion of DUI because I'm weaving.....
Ron Wanttaja
Ron Wanttaja
In what sense? Dealing with the FAA? I think it depends on the reason for the post-arrest dismissal or decision not to charge.
If "without actually being under the influence" means that a breath or blood test established you were below the threshold for driving while impaired, you have the evidence you were not. Since the arrest itself is reportable, I would be asking my AME in advance what he needed to see.
Lindberg
Final Approach
I'm curious because I've never done criminal law, whether the defendant can get access to the test results once the prosecutor decides to dismiss the charges.
Bill Greenwood
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2019
- Messages
- 302
- Display Name
Display name:
Bill Greenwood
I was in Texas recently and read of a sad case. A Black man spent 6 weeks in jail on a drug charge, not unusual except in this case he was innocent. He was stopped by cops while driving, they found a bag of white powder. He told them it was powdered sugar and he was on his way to fix dinner. Now these cops were a bit lenient, they didn't shoot him right there on the spot, they just arrested him on cocaine charges, said their test was positive. He didn't have a few hundred $ for bail or a lawyer, so stayed in jail. Fortunately the cops had sent the substance to the real testing lab, oh and judge didn't believe the man either. In 6 weeks the test results come back, no cocaine just sugar, so he got out of jail, having lost his job in meantime. What if the lab had been crooked, he might be in prison now. I guess the roadside tests are really bogus.
genna
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
- Messages
- 1,721
- Display Name
Display name:
ТУ-104
yes. Dealing with FAA. Obviously this is reportable. Are you losing your medical immediately? Court dismissal may or may not mean anything to FAA. What does it take to get the medical back? And how long? What if you are a working pilot? Sorting this out can take many months
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
What bothers me in all of this, aside from the obvious, is once you are arrested it is on your record for ever. Because some cop screwed up you are branded for life. And the cop goes on his merry way.
The law needs to change where only convictions can be answerable. Nobody should be able to ask if you were arrested, only convicted.
The law needs to change where only convictions can be answerable. Nobody should be able to ask if you were arrested, only convicted.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Unintended consequence of our War on all mind altering chemicals. With pot becoming legal in lots of municipalities you can expect to see this get worse. That said, if you were clean at the time of the arrest you will be vindicated both by the courts and the FAA. It is certainly PITA though. Best bet is not to talk tot the cops.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Arrests with no conviction can often be expunged.
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
I am told not on the federal database. Either way it is a travesty. How much money to get it expunged?
What say my Daughter, working very hard at college to keep a 3.85 gpa so she can go to medical school, gets arrested by one of these idiot cops that thinks he knows something. How would any of it look on the med school application? People still assume that if you were arrested, you were guilty, even if no conviction. Cops have no accountability.
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
“Have you ever”
I suspect there is a report which might be available. The one time it happened when I practiced criminal law, we knew, but that's because, after the breath test was below, they searched him and charged him with DUI marijuana.
The key is having the test results and the record of dismissal. Since dismissal does not by itself mean you weren't, I would have all my ducks in a row going in.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Heck, he can just call you a terrorist and lock you up.
To genna, if you can substantiate your assertion- NOT under the influence, and no positive test (which is tough to do, and is punishment enough to do)...FAA will let it go. that is one reason why the dashcam runs all the time my ignition is on.
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
This would be funny if it weren't true, which makes it sad and horrifying..
granted, it would have made their paperwork a lot easier, make up some fake story about acting out and resisting arrest and reaching for what appeared to be a weapon..
Lindberg
Final Approach
Most people don't. She may have to explain it.
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
this always baffled me, if you are innocent until proven guilty then how can you legally be held against your will??
In my experience I don't think that's true.. answering "yes" to the question "have you ever been arrested?" Will bring instant suspicion and judgement from most people
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
Lol, if they shot you, or did something that could land them in jail, you really think that dash cam would survive?
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
I was in an Uber recently and the guy used a kind of dash cam that continually stored the footage on the cloud so even if the camera is stolen or destroyed the footage survives
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
Better make sure others know about that.
Dead men tell no tails of their cloud storage.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
This. And they are gambling that the multiple folks who have access won’t. Bad bet.
Last edited:
For the legal folks, would you recommend that if someone is stopped for suspicion of DWI/DUI they should insist on a breathalyzer or blood test?
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
Well you can’t refuse it, and you don’t need to do the rest of it, anyone correct me if I’m wrong, but license and registration, don’t play the roadside olympics because you will always loose, just blow and go from there, hopefully you and your dog won’t get shot
Suppose the officer is going to ticket you based on a field sobriety test (walking a straight line, the eye movement test...nystagmas I think it is called, or some other test that does not involve measuring BAC electronically or test equipment)? Should you insist on an equipment based test/evaluation?
I'm curious because I am rabid anti-DUI/DWI having lost two friends to drunk drivers. But I've also been harassed by officers when driving a borrowed car. Fortunately, it happened in my home town and the Chief of Police was a family friend. The two officers who were hassling me couldn't get me on my way fast enough when I gave them his home phone number to call to verify my identity. Most cops are great folks doing a difficult job well. These two needed to be removed from the force.
I'm curious because I am rabid anti-DUI/DWI having lost two friends to drunk drivers. But I've also been harassed by officers when driving a borrowed car. Fortunately, it happened in my home town and the Chief of Police was a family friend. The two officers who were hassling me couldn't get me on my way fast enough when I gave them his home phone number to call to verify my identity. Most cops are great folks doing a difficult job well. These two needed to be removed from the force.
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
I don't get this, I hear it but it makes zero sense, the whole dui thing is really a hold back from the religious puritanical guys who, god willing, will die off soon.
The same amount of people die from speeding, (about 10k a year),yet it don't get the mouth breathers all hot and bothered the same way.
Loosing two friends to that freak type of occurrence, ether you got TONS of friends, you travel in odd circles, or something else odd is going on.
I'd also imagine if you're "rabid" anti fluke deaths by dui, you must hate fat people even more than I do, as being fat kills 2000% more people than DUIs.
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,507
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
Some stages have pre arrest test procedures to keep this type of thing from happening but it’s something that varies a lot by state. In NC if you get stopped and are being investigated for possible DUI you can request pre arrest testing. The cop takes you to be tested. If you are not drunk then you are released having never been arrested. But you have to ask for it...
It's been a long time for me - I last represented a DUI client, in Colorado, in 1994. So things could have changed. Probably have to some degree. But, as I recall, field sobriety tests are optional - one may refuse to take the. But a person detained in Colorado for a DUI "must" undergo either a blood or breath BAC test, and it will always be offered. The detainee will be given a choice of blood or breath, but "must" do one or the other.
That "must" means there are consequences for refusal.
Refusal in NC will result in immediate revocation for I *think* one year...it is ugly.
The pot sniffing cop thing in the OP is pretty bizarre...so much dope smoking these days, this guy looks like a genius rolling the dice...but HEY! He is "certified".
The pot sniffing cop thing in the OP is pretty bizarre...so much dope smoking these days, this guy looks like a genius rolling the dice...but HEY! He is "certified".
Warmi
Line Up and Wait
Thats one case where actually suing everyone involved would be the correct use of our legal a system - make them pay- of course, they won’t be paying for it personally with taxpayers covering for their mistakes but at some point with enough money being diverted towards stupid nonsense like this, people will get start being fired and things will start moving in the right direction.
Lindberg
Final Approach
I think we're in the same state. You can refuse the breathalyzer, but your license will be suspended. They may also then get a court order for your blood. If I knew I was going to be negative, I'd probably insist on a blood test since I understand there are fewer false positives with blood. But if this is a situation you're likely to find yourself in, my advice is to have the number of a GOOD attorney on hand, one who specializes in this sort of thing, and use it.
Bill Greenwood
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2019
- Messages
- 302
- Display Name
Display name:
Bill Greenwood
Regardless of the police involved, you should never drive drunk, call a cab or a friend. I know a pilot who was a bartender, regualry was drunk at end of shift and one night he took the wrong on ramp to freeway and hit a woman head on. They both lived but barely, he never even takes one drink now.
Kenny Phillips
Final Approach
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2018
- Messages
- 5,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Kenny Phillips
Speeding doesn't cause accidents, loss of control does (though one may lead to another), and I'm rabid about those (especially the bikers that post on YT). I also hate police chases; no good ever comes of them. And I hate it when cops shoot at a perceived, rather than confirmed, threat. Today there are fewer traffic deaths from alcohol, maybe mostly through education and fear, but maybe medical care has improved a bit, too. But driving even buzzed, or on no sleep, is as stupid as flying in the same condition. You certainly will get nowhere defending driving under the influence.
Oh, and our vaunted US medical system kills a city's worth of people through medical errors every year.
Warmi
Line Up and Wait
Oh, and our vaunted US medical system kills a city's worth of people through medical errors every year.
I always figured this stat was just pure BS - as the article I listed points out , this would amount to about 30% deaths in hospitals being direct result of medical mistakes which just doesn’t pass the smell test.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ar...ommon-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/
I always figured this stat was just pure BS - as the article I listed points out , this would amount to about 30% deaths in hospitals being direct result of medical mistakes which just doesn’t pass the smell test.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ar...ommon-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
Who’s defending it?
I don’t think anyone has done that, it’s stupid, however how it’s handled is waaaay overboard, just like how property crimes are ignored is waaay too lax. Seems our police/court system has its priorities all jumbled up
This may depend heavily how many terminal cases stay in the hospital, vs going home to hospice.
It may also depend how you treat cases where only in hindsight is it reasoably/cost effectively possible to determine what the right course really was?
And admittedly, there appears to be a strong trend pushed by insurance to treat by the most likely cause for the symptoms presented, and only dig deeper when that doesn’t work. Which could contribute considerably to that stat.
Stevea621j
Pre-Flight
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
- Messages
- 66
- Display Name
Display name:
Stevea
I believe there is a disconnect between how our society treats arrests, how police officers view an arrest, and how our justice system deals with misdemeanor crime. Police will say "you will have your day in court" so will arrest many times with marginal justification. Once arrested, courts view a trial in a misdemeanor case as a waste of the courts time, will strongly encourage a plea, and even threaten the most severe penalty if a defendant wastes the courts time with a trial and is convicted. The defendant is at a huge disadvantage because often times the arrest is based almost entirely on the expert observation of the police officer, so if they were to go to court it is essentially the officers word against the the defendant. Therefore they are encouraged by their counsel to take a plea, even if innocent. Then to compound the impact on the persons life, no matter what the outcome is, they are held accountable for the rest of their life for an arrest. I strongly believe any questions about arrests should be off limits when it comes to getting a medical, getting a job, going to school etc. because it just negates the notion of having your day in court.