"Driverless Cars Could Mean the End of Domestic Flights"

I think in the short term that would be true. However, the success of driverless cars leads to driverless planes. That would spell the end of most domestic driving. :)
 
It seems with autopilot and auto landing and takeoffs we are already at driverless (pilotless?) flying...
 
Creating a plane that can fly itself is not that difficult. The difficulty is in designing
one which is proven to be safe under all conditions.
 
The idea that the flip-flop wearing, $89 coast to coast air travelers that are currently packing onto domestic flights like sardines will soon all own $150,000 autonomous self driving cars is kind of laughable.
 
mohamedpac said:
Here's a very interesting article regarding the possible future of the aviation and hotel industry: http://www.dezeen.com/2015/11/25/se...erview-audi-senior-strategist-sven-schuwirth/

The Audi strategist believes that driverless cars could spell the end of domestic flights.

Thoughts on whether/how much this will affect airlines and GA in particular?
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I think in Europe where the distances are small and you can up down the continent in a day and cross it in two it will have much more impact than in America.
 
mohamedpac said:
Here's a very interesting article regarding the possible future of the aviation and hotel industry: http://www.dezeen.com/2015/11/25/se...erview-audi-senior-strategist-sven-schuwirth/

The Audi strategist believes that driverless cars could spell the end of domestic flights.

Thoughts on whether/how much this will affect airlines and GA in particular?
Click to expand...

I think the opposite if government acts as it always does and over-regulates. If the government decides to restrict speed of self-driving cars to actual speed limits (or lower for our "safety") it winds up making driving long distances more time consuming rather than less.
 
Is this a joke?

Like hell people are going to choose to sit in a car for two or more days and nights when you can fly in six hours, cheaper.
 
"There will be a steering wheel in case you decide you want to drive..."

And therein lies the fly in the ointment. As long as you give Bubba the option of driving it the concept is doomed.

"Cletus, hold my beer and watch THIS!"
 
mohamedpac said:
It seems with autopilot and auto landing and takeoffs we are already at driverless (pilotless?) flying...
Click to expand...

I've only been flying airliners for six months, but the more I do, the more I realize just how far away this concept remains.
 
MAKG1 said:
Is this a joke?

Like hell people are going to choose to sit in a car for two or more days and nights when you can fly in six hours, cheaper.
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No ****! I thought the same thing. A flight to the cabin is 2 hours, a drive (or ride) in the car is 8 hours. Now long does it take to fly from SFO to JFK or BOS, or LAX to DFW or DTW or ATL.

No one is going to drive(ride) that unless they have an RV, and are retired. Now a autodrive RV could be something. But not a ****ing car.

Also, Hawaii is domestic, so is Alaska. They building a giant bridge to Hilo? and then to Honolulu and...

Whoever wrote this article is an idiot.
 
They already have autodrive busses you can sleep on. Greyhound runs a network.

Well, close enough. What's the difference to the passenger if the driver is a pile of heavy metals or a meatbag?

We can all see how popular long distance domestic bus or rail travel has become.
 
So the government,will control the speed limits and traffic,not working now inquests if your sleeping during most of the trip you wouldn't care.
 
Silvaire said:
The idea that the flip-flop wearing, $89 coast to coast air travelers that are currently packing onto domestic flights like sardines will soon all own $150,000 autonomous self driving cars is kind of laughable.
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Exactly, the US isn't exactly that market. Driverless cars will see their big market in the commute sector where people catch some zzzs on the way to work.
 
MAKG1 said:
Is this a joke?

Like hell people are going to choose to sit in a car for two or more days and nights when you can fly in six hours, cheaper.
Click to expand...

This isn't totally true. There is the 'tourist' market that wants to see the countryside. Amtrak is the one that will go out of business.
 
Henning said:
This isn't totally true. There is the 'tourist' market that wants to see the countryside. Amtrak is the one that will go out of business.
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Why would driverless cars affect tourists who want to "see the countryside?" That doesn't work well at night, and you can already drive to New York in 4-5 really boring days, in the Wagon Queen Family Truckster.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Is this a joke?

Like hell people are going to choose to sit in a car for two or more days and nights when you can fly in six hours, cheaper.
Click to expand...

I can see it both ways.

I can sit in my own car, not deal with TSA, not sit in a tube of metal with a bunch of sick people hacking up a lung, and watch an afternoon of football games and arrive at Grandma's. That's not all bad.
 
MAKG1 said:
They already have autodrive busses you can sleep on. Greyhound runs a network.

Well, close enough. What's the difference to the passenger if the driver is a pile of heavy metals or a meatbag?

We can all see how popular long distance domestic bus or rail travel has become.
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I looked into doing the rail from Chicago out to Seattle. Way too many damn stops. It would be one thing if it made a stop in Minny, ND, Eastern MT, ID, and that was it. But noooo, there's like 12 stops alone in Wisconsin. That's why rail fails here. Maybe if they did a hub and spoke system it would be more enjoyable, but not with all the stops.
 
EdFred said:
I looked into doing the rail from Chicago out to Seattle. Way too many damn stops. It would be one thing if it made a stop in Minny, ND, Eastern MT, ID, and that was it. But noooo, there's like 12 stops alone in Wisconsin. That's why rail fails here. Maybe if they did a hub and spoke system it would be more enjoyable, but not with all the stops.
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Yup, I'd love to go cross country by rail someday, but it would have to be when I'm retired.
 
MAKG1 said:
Why would driverless cars affect tourists who want to "see the countryside?" That doesn't work well at night, and you can already drive to New York in 4-5 really boring days, in the Wagon Queen Family Truckster.
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Because a driverless car avoids the navigation stress, errors, and fights. When you're driving, being able to look around is limited since you have to pay attention to driving. You can't just kick back and stare off to the side for a while and watch the world go by. The parking for the night rather than blasting through is why it will kill AmTrak.
 
Henning said:
I think in Europe where the distances are small and you can up down the continent in a day and cross it in two it will have much more impact than in America.
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They already have a robust train network to connect the population centers. This may play a role in replacing some rural or low demand bus lines or to connect low demant city pairs.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, the US isn't exactly that market. Driverless cars will see their big market in the commute sector where people catch some zzzs on the way to work.
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Exactly this. If you have autonomous cars and car-to-car communication you could probably cut down on the ridiculous congestion in so many cities. Like in St. Louis you have people who just can't seem to understand how to merge into traffic on the highway; they will literally come to a complete stop and wait for some other genius to come to a stop next to them in the middle of traffic to let them in.

Of course in my opinion the best way to deal with congestion is to convince companies to stop forcing all their employees to come into an office every day just so you can monitor how they spend their time.
 
weilke said:
They already have a robust train network to connect the population centers. This may play a role in replacing some rural or low demand bus lines or to connect low demant city pairs.
Click to expand...

Trains in Europe suck these days, and the prices have gotten to the point that it's cheaper to fly than take an express. Taking the 'local' trains sucks your soul. Plus, regardless how robust the network, there are still many place trains don't serve.
 
People want to sit in their space. Plus if you can text/FB/eat chips while the car drives it doesn't matter if it takes 4 days. The hitch will be the state because of lack of speeding/DUI/Probable cause stops(I pulled you over because your car tires touched the center line...) and the humongous loss of revenue. Just speeding and DUIs with fines, lawyers, and insurance companies getting their piece must be billions yearly off the table.
 
Phoenix said:
People want to sit in their space. Plus if you can text/FB/eat chips while the car drives it doesn't matter if it takes 4 days. The hitch will be the state because of lack of speeding/DUI/Probable cause stops(I pulled you over because your car tires touched the center line...) and the humongous loss of revenue. Just speeding and DUIs with fines, lawyers, and insurance companies getting their piece must be billions yearly off the table.
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Don't worry, that will be over by the time the tech is ripe. The America you know won't exist in 5 years.
 
Henning said:
Because a driverless car avoids the navigation stress, errors, and fights. When you're driving, being able to look around is limited since you have to pay attention to driving. You can't just kick back and stare off to the side for a while and watch the world go by. The parking for the night rather than blasting through is why it will kill AmTrak.
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Henning, you're clearly an only child with no kids.

Two hours in the car will set the kids off, let alone 50+.
 
MAKG1 said:
Henning, you're clearly an only child with no kids.

Two hours in the car will set the kids off, let alone 50+.
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Nope, older sister and months long Grand Tours of North America in the summer in the back of the family station wagon then sedan. Those are the memories you still have to go to when your dad can't remember you anymore. Wouldn't trade them.
 
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Oh yeah, extensive train travel in Europe back when it was cheap, and suitcases didn't have wheels.
 
In Europe, as long as I am arriving and departing from the same place, I am much cheaper off getting around in a rental car than trains. Even if I have to depart from a different place, If I rent from my gal in Nice at the Ford store, I can fly her to where ever I'm leaving from, treat her to a night out and pay the fuel/expenses and she brings the car back to Nice.
 
Interesting Henning; in my experience traveling through France, Spain and Italy largely by rail I found it to be quite affordable. Trains in China on the other hand were pricey.

In my opinion, I definitely think it would have a powerful effect on domestic aviation, contrary to the opinion of many commenting. Ford recently patented a "club" style driverless vehicle concept where the front seats turn around to face the rear, and there's a table in the middle. You can relax, stretch out, watch TV, do your work, etc.

The way technology is going, all cars will have wifi and all channels will have streaming in 20 years, and cars are now being designed to accommodate passengers easier who just want to relax, giving car cabins more room. I imagine laying back for 5-8 hours at a time in your own space, where you can travel cheaply and stop whenever is quite convenient and will be disruptive.

But that is just my two cents.


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Except it isn't cheaper to drive.

Even for a 400 mile trip to LA and back, that's roughly 40 gallons of gasoline, at $3.00/gal, that's $120. A Southwest ticket costs exactly the same. I drive that trip because LAX isn't convenient.

The savings are considerably larger for longer trips. To go to New York (3000 miles) round trip, that's 300 gallons, about $900. I can get an airline fare for half that.

And that doesn't count the less obvious costs on the car, like tires, brakes, repairs, and depreciation. The Federal guideline is over $0.50/mile. Plus there are food and lodging costs due to the longer trip. You can fly a family of three cross country for what it costs to drive, easily, in a tiny fraction of the time.
 
We've had driverless cars for decades. It's called Greyhound. If you don't want to or can't drive, and can't afford to go by air, that's how you travel in the CONUS.
 
mohamedpac said:
Interesting Henning; in my experience traveling through France, Spain and Italy largely by rail I found it to be quite affordable. Trains in China on the other hand were pricey.

In my opinion, I definitely think it would have a powerful effect on domestic aviation, contrary to the opinion of many commenting. Ford recently patented a "club" style driverless vehicle concept where the front seats turn around to face the rear, and there's a table in the middle. You can relax, stretch out, watch TV, do your work, etc.

The way technology is going, all cars will have wifi and all channels will have streaming in 20 years, and cars are now being designed to accommodate passengers easier who just want to relax, giving car cabins more room. I imagine laying back for 5-8 hours at a time in your own space, where you can travel cheaply and stop whenever is quite convenient and will be disruptive.

But that is just my two cents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Unless these driverless cars go 300mph, you aren't going to dent the airlines. If you live in NoDak and are going to do a 1 week Disney vacation with the kids, you aren't spending 2-3 days by car getting there and 2-3 days getting back. You'll only have about 1 day at Disney for a 1 week vacation.

Even for me, in the summer I can work till 5 on Friday, head to the airport hop in the plane and be in Atlanta, the cabin, or a number of other places by dark. And leave late in the day Sunday and be back well before bedtime. If I get in the driverless car, I'm rolling into Atlanta at 5am. Same goes for returning. No thanks.
 
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Phoenix said:
People want to sit in their space. Plus if you can text/FB/eat chips while the car drives it doesn't matter if it takes 4 days. The hitch will be the state because of lack of speeding/DUI/Probable cause stops(I pulled you over because your car tires touched the center line...) and the humongous loss of revenue. Just speeding and DUIs with fines, lawyers, and insurance companies getting their piece must be billions yearly off the table.
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I can pretty much guarantee you that even if driverless cars do become a reality you're not going to be allowed to have cocktails onboard. Hell the car might even be mandatorily programmed to snitch on you if you do and deliver you to the nearest constable with override authority revoked ;)
 
MAKG1 said:
Except it isn't cheaper to drive.

Even for a 400 mile trip to LA and back, that's roughly 40 gallons of gasoline, at $3.00/gal, that's $120. A Southwest ticket costs exactly the same. I drive that trip because LAX isn't convenient.

The savings are considerably larger for longer trips. To go to New York (3000 miles) round trip, that's 300 gallons, about $900. I can get an airline fare for half that.

And that doesn't count the less obvious costs on the car, like tires, brakes, repairs, and depreciation. The Federal guideline is over $0.50/mile. Plus there are food and lodging costs due to the longer trip. You can fly a family of three cross country for what it costs to drive, easily, in a tiny fraction of the time.
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All this is true, but the average consumer does not see it this way. For them, the cost is just gas for the most part.

Cars, in general, are better form of transportation over commercial air for up to about 400 mile trips. Its faster to go by car. Sort of cheaper(depending on number of people and how you calculate the cost). Often less stress and you have the transportation when you get there.

I think the DL cars will probably make a bigger dent in that market.. Long distance travel, I don't think so. Regardless how easy it is, for most people it's only time and money that matters.

I also see those cars getting rather expensive and pricing people out. Volvo, for example, is taking on the liability of their DL cars. It won't take but a few deadly accidents to make that liability really $$.

DL cars may kill lots of auto manufacturers. After all, if the car drives itself, what's the difference if it's MB, BMW, Toyota... whatever.... Ultimate Driving Machine? Who cares
 
I'm looking forward to driverless cars so I can get a ride to my plane after I lose my driver's license :wink2:

Actually, I don't think driverless vehicles will make much of an inroad into individually owned local transportation in the near term. I can see driverless vehicles replacing long haul truckers, local delivery vehicles and taxi drivers. Automation has displaced as many workers as exporting jobs has. The new auto plants in this country look like ghost towns compared to auto plants in the 50s through the 70s. The sad thing is that cars have become more reliable in the process. "Robots" make fewer production mistakes than people, they don't get drowsy and they don't sabotage things when they are unhappy. They also don't request matching funds for a 401K plan or high cost health care (hardware maintenance staff are far cheaper than doctors). People are slowly becoming disconnected from the work that supports daily life. That has huge implications for the economy of the future, and driverless cars are just the tip of the iceberg.
 
EdFred said:
Unless these driverless cars go 300mph, you aren't going to dent the airlines. If you live in NoDak and are going to do a 1 week Disney vacation with the kids, you aren't spending 2-3 days by car getting there and 2-3 days getting back. You'll only have about 1 day at Disney for a 1 week vacation.

Even for me, in the summer I can work till 5 on Friday, head to the airport hop in the plane and be in Atlanta, the cabin, or a number of other places by dark. And leave late in the day Sunday and be back well before bedtime. If I get in the driverless car, I'm rolling into Atlanta at 5am. Same goes for returning. No thanks.
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sure it will. When i travel for work I can't fly myself, it's airlines or car. My cut-off is ~12 hours of driving. I live in a non-hub city with no direct flights to anywhere, so by the time I make a connection or 2, any airline trip is 12 hours minimum. For personal travel, in my beechcraft creeping along at 165Kts I can regularly arrive in half the time of the airlines.
 
If and when they become a reality I suppose the next time I have to drive through Munich I won't be lost and going around in circles for an hour and a half. They should be a great asset in the tourist rental car regime. RHD? No problem, I'll just sit on the left side like I usually do.:rolleyes:
 
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