Dream Panel

[Jaybird180]

Awhile back I was a silent participant in a 3-person conversation with 2 high-time pilots.

One said that he will not again fly singly pilot IFR again. Several weeks later I asked him why and he said because of the equipment in his airplane. When I inquired further he expounded in that it was the lack of an Autopilot that discourages him due to the workload.

I got to thinking: I read alot about this airplane has this ABC-123 box installed with ZYG-745 coupled and backups to the backups, but hardly much is said about capabilities (unless you know each piece of equipment).

So the question is:
If you were refurbishing a panel, what capabilities would you consider essential (above legal requirements, of course) to go into your dream panel and more importantly, why?

Optional: Please augment your list with a few pieces of equipment to fufill each requirement.

 

[Bob Noel]

This is applicable to my Cherokee 140.

I value these enough to actually have installed them in my 140.

Weather avoidance gear (I currently have a strikefinder in my cherokee). I'm going to stay away from thunderstorms, not pick my way through them.

Single-axis autopilot. The 140 is a little light in roll, so on a 4 hour flight in IMC it's nice to have the autopilot hold the wings level. I have an STEC-20 in my 140. If I were to do it again, I'd pick the STEC autopilot that replaces the turn coordinator to save panel space.



If someone else was paying the bill I'd add a replacement to my LORAN. Otherwise you'll note the absence of any GPS.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Cool question.

1- Fuel quantity indicator that's accurate to +- 0.1 gal over the entire range. (I think I'm going to invest in one of these during the next annual inspection/deferred maintenance event)
2- Engine monitor (I've got the stock stuff and I'm really jealous of those of you who know your individual cylinder and exhaust temps and fuel flow rates)
3- WAAS!!! I luuuuuuuv LPV approaches.

 

[EdFred]

Essential:
One VOR, one COM.
Cause that's all I need.

Dream Panel.
Sky's the limit.
Cause that's what I want.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Single-axis autopilot. The 140 is a little light in roll, so on a 4 hour flight in IMC it's nice to have the autopilot hold the wings level. I have an STEC-20 in my 140. If I were to do it again, I'd pick the STEC autopilot that replaces the turn coordinator to save panel space.

The S-TEC 20 is a turn coordinator replacement...

If you have the single-axis S-TEC that's got a separate control box, that's the S-TEC 40.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So the question is:
If you were refurbishing a panel, what capabilities would you consider essential (above legal requirements, of course) to go into your dream panel and more importantly, why?

Optional: Please augment your list with a few pieces of equipment to fufill each requirement.

Well, first of all, here's a picture of the dream panel:

That's Av Shiloh's Turbo Comanche 260. (Amazing!)

As far as capabilities I want in a panel:

1) IFR WAAS GPS. Nothing beats going direct, and the WAAS allows for vertical guidance on MANY more approaches, even the non-LPV ones almost always have advisory vertical guidance. This allows for a nicer, stabilized approach with a lower descent rate - Safer, and nicer to the pax. Garmin G430W, G530W, G650, or G750.

2) 2-axis GPSS coupled autopilot. Even if it's only got altitude hold and not preselect, this is a HUGE boon to preventing fatigue. If it's got preselect and can shoot fully-coupled precision approaches, even better. S-TEC 50, 60-2, or 55X.

3) Engine monitor, with CHT's and EGT's on every cylinder and fuel flow with totalizer. No better way to save fuel and have an extra verification of how much you've used. JPI EDM 930 (single) or 960 (twin), preferably. EDM 700+FF or 760 acceptable too.

4) Weather gear. XM datalink would be my first choice due to the wide range of products available. Radar would be nice, too... Or a stormscope. Preferred: 496/Aera on the yoke, which could provide backup navigation in a complete electrical failure. GDL69A to feed the panel-mounted boxes, and a GWX68 radar too.

5) Two Flip-flop radios. Makes it VERY easy to be monitoring 121.5. The GPS's listed in #1 could provide one or both, if there's only one GPS/NAV/COM I would go with an SL30 as the second NAV/COM.

6) Traffic avoidance. Mode S/TIS is "okay" at best - Prefer active traffic. GTS800.

7) DME. Yeah, real DME. Distance information is incredibly useful when flying IFR, and when they're running a GPS jamming test, the fancy boxen are worthless. I've gotta go with the venerable King KNS 80 here, so that I can still fly direct when GPS is jammed.

 

[vontresc]

Ok with that much $$$ invested in the panel, wouldn't you recondition at least the logos on the yokes????

 

[jtheune]

Well, first of all, here's a picture of the dream panel:

That's Av Shiloh's Turbo Comanche 260. (Amazing!)

As far as capabilities I want in a panel:

1) IFR WAAS GPS. Nothing beats going direct, and the WAAS allows for vertical guidance on MANY more approaches, even the non-LPV ones almost always have advisory vertical guidance. This allows for a nicer, stabilized approach with a lower descent rate - Safer, and nicer to the pax. Garmin G430W, G530W, G650, or G750.

2) 2-axis GPSS coupled autopilot. Even if it's only got altitude hold and not preselect, this is a HUGE boon to preventing fatigue. If it's got preselect and can shoot fully-coupled precision approaches, even better. S-TEC 50, 60-2, or 55X.

3) Engine monitor, with CHT's and EGT's on every cylinder and fuel flow with totalizer. No better way to save fuel and have an extra verification of how much you've used. JPI EDM 930 (single) or 960 (twin), preferably. EDM 700+FF or 760 acceptable too.

4) Weather gear. XM datalink would be my first choice due to the wide range of products available. Radar would be nice, too... Or a stormscope. Preferred: 496/Aera on the yoke, which could provide backup navigation in a complete electrical failure. GDL69A to feed the panel-mounted boxes, and a GWX68 radar too.

5) Two Flip-flop radios. Makes it VERY easy to be monitoring 121.5. The GPS's listed in #1 could provide one or both, if there's only one GPS/NAV/COM I would go with an SL30 as the second NAV/COM.

6) Traffic avoidance. Mode S/TIS is "okay" at best - Prefer active traffic. GTS800.

7) DME. Yeah, real DME. Distance information is incredibly useful when flying IFR, and when they're running a GPS jamming test, the fancy boxen are worthless. I've gotta go with the venerable King KNS 80 here, so that I can still fly direct when GPS is jammed.

I have to say that is a very good description and with the exception of 6 & 7 what I have in my plane. I do think the panel is over the top but it's the way I bought into the partnership and it does make life much easier flying both IFR and VFR.

 

[Richard]

A failed ASI on that panel really would constitute an emergency.

 

[Bob Noel]

The S-TEC 20 is a turn coordinator replacement...

If you have the single-axis S-TEC that's got a separate control box, that's the S-TEC 40.

ok, so I got my STEC numbers reversed. I have the STEC single axis autopilot with the separate control. I would prefer to have the STEC single axis autopilot with the controls integrated into the turn coordinator.

(oh, btw, I have the autopilot tied to the DG and the strikefinder also gets heading from the DG)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

1) IFR WAAS GPS.
2) 2-axis GPSS coupled autopilot.
3) Engine monitor
4) Weather gear.
5) Two Flip-flop radios.
6) Traffic avoidance.
7) DME.

I have to say that is a very good description and with the exception of 6 & 7 what I have in my plane. I do think the panel is over the top but it's the way I bought into the partnership and it does make life much easier flying both IFR and VFR.

We're *almost* in the same place with two of the club planes.

The 182 has the WAAS GPS, 2-axis A/P with altitude hold, engine monitor, and dual flip-flops. No weather gear, though.

The DA40 (G1000) does NOT have WAAS, and its autopilot lacks GPSS (but follows the GPS OK in Nav mode). But, its autopilot does have altitude preselect and will capture and track both localizer and glideslope, and it also has XM weather datalink and TIS traffic.

I wouldn't call it "over the top" - While not *absolutely* required, those first four are EXTREMELY helpful when flying IFR. I wouldn't want to be attempting long trips on a regular basis without them. "Over the top" is the dual G600 setup in Av's Comanche.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A failed ASI on that panel really would constitute an emergency.

Why? He's got THREE of 'em!

 

[denverpilot]

The two things I really want for our Skylane, Kent covered.

- Engine monitor with fuel-flow and accurate OAT and Carb Temp add-ons.

- WAAS GPS.

If headed outside the U.S, we'd have to replace the ADF we pulled (because it was crapping out).

Have seriously considered a cheap(er) Enroute-only GPS and/or old used King RNAV if the price were right for /R.

And I mean dirt-cheap price. It'd have to be a "Why not?" price.

But you said money was no object.

We already have a full digital King stack w/DME so we're not doing too bad. Can't go as Direct as y'all with the GPS gizmos, but the penalty is that we have to do more flying.

Can't find too many problems with that.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Have seriously considered a cheap(er) Enroute-only GPS and/or old used King RNAV if the price were right for /R.

/R is RNP. Even an enroute-only IFR GPS is /G, a KNS 80 or IFR LORAN would be /I (RNAV w/Mode C txp).

Can't go as Direct as y'all with the GPS gizmos, but the penalty is that we have to do more flying.

Can't find too many problems with that.

If the only point is to fly, sure... But to get somewhere far away in a day, direct is nice to have. (I've discovered that 8 flight hours in a day is quite enough, especially in only two legs...)

 

[denverpilot]

/R is RNP. Even an enroute-only IFR GPS is /G, a KNS 80 or IFR LORAN would be /I (RNAV w/Mode C txp).

Bah. See what I get for lazily posting from a McDonald's parking lot with brain switched off listening to tunes?

(Serious case of "short-timers" disease going on here... next Friday is my last day at the old job, and my ticket queue is clear, the stuff we were moving around the lab is mostly moved, and other staff was in a staff meeting to discuss "restructuring" of the department, so I took a long lunch. It's not exactly "important news I need to know" at this point. Ha. Now I'm back at the office, and yup... still nothing to do. LOL!)

If the only point is to fly, sure... But to get somewhere far away in a day, direct is nice to have. (I've discovered that 8 flight hours in a day is quite enough, especially in only two legs...)

I rarely wander that far, and definitely not without lots of "slop" in the schedule.

Oshkosh -- or more accurately, KUNU -- is the furthest I've ever done in a day from here. Or perhaps the flight home, upwind... Green Bay to home... with a fuel stop. That took a little longer, but not much.

Winds were light. Light enough that about 30 mosquitos out of the swarm made it inside the cockpit during pre-flight at our fuel stop, and we were slapping them into whatever hard surfaces we could find, including the windshield, all the way to the departure end of the runway.

New experiences are fun, right? Ha.

 

[Everskyward]

HSI...

It's interesting to me how many people have mentioned WAAS. I've never flown a WAAS approach in my life or even an airplane that was capable of it.

 

[TMetzinger]

Let's see...

1. No vacuum pumps. Give me electrically powered instruments with good bus design, dual sources PLUS a dedicated power source for the standby AI.
2. Solid state (no mech gyros) on the primary instruments and preferably on the backup AI as well.
3. Datalink for inflight weather. ADS-B preferred, XM is ok.
4. IFR GPS with WAAS.
5. Autopilot, preferably with flight director, and at least two axes.
6. Engine Monitoring functions (CHT/EGT for all cylinders minimum)
7. Fuel Flow.

The new Diamond DA40s with the G1000/GFC700 would be just about perfect, though I'd switch out the three standbys for an L3 standby display. That's what I WANT.

What I NEED if I'm going to fly my family IFR is:

At least a single-axis autopilot that WORKS
IFR approach-certified GPS
Dual nav-comms that both work, and one glideslope receiver/indicator
Second AI (perhaps in lieu of a turn coordinator)
Datalink weather (396 or other XM solution is fine)

If it's just me, I'm ok with a single NAV/Comm/GS that works, as I'll use my 96C for situational awareness.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

HSI...

It's interesting to me how many people have mentioned WAAS. I've never flown a WAAS approach in my life or even an airplane that was capable of it.

I would bet that you fly to runways that are MUCH more likely to have an ILS than most of us baby birds do, though... And part of the reason I really like WAAS is that in the "doomsday" scenario for a single where your engine eats a valve in an area of low IMC and you need to find an approach with vertical guidance and take it all the way to the ground if necessary, the WAAS GPS gives you a lot more approaches with vertical guidance. I wouldn't be too worried about that sort of thing in your plane... Though I suppose you could be on fire.

 

[JesseD]

New to this:

GTN750, 650, Garmin 32/35 units to plug into the 750, dual slope KI's, pilot / copilot six packs & yoke PTT, a good autopilot like an S-Tec 55, full graphic engine monitor with data transfer, and a 69a weather.

 

[Fearless Tower]

HSI...

It's interesting to me how many people have mentioned WAAS. I've never flown a WAAS approach in my life or even an airplane that was capable of it.

I agree - I'd much rather have an HSI than WAAS.

 

[Everskyward]

I would bet that you fly to runways that are MUCH more likely to have an ILS than most of us baby birds do, though...

I wouldn't be so sure of that. In fact, coincidentally, the last three approaches we have loaded have been GPS. One was flown almost to minimums the other night, but then they don't have an LPV to that runway anyway. They do have an ILS but it was out of service.

 

[BillTIZ]

I just finished reading the AOPA Pilot digital mag. Nice article on the "Vegas Viper", done a year ago, nice panel on that bird, but he's not done yet.