Don't be Guard Police.

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
24,893
Location
UQACY, WI
Display Name
Display name:
iMooniac
So I was out flying the other day, talking to Milwaukee Approach and monitoring Guard on #2 as per my usual practice.

I hear a pilot say "Madison Approach, Arrow 12345". I realize he's probably on guard, because I'm talking to Milwaukee and he sounds a bit scratchy.

Then, I hear:

"You're on Guard!"
"Uh oh!"
"What a rookie"

Followed by:

"Madison Approach, Arrow 12345, we have an electrical fire on board." :hairraise:

So don't be a jackass and block up the frequency - While it's often a mistake that someone's transmitting on guard, sometimes it's not. Best to remain silent until you hear at least a second call. We've all transmitted on guard by accident - at least, those of us who actually monitor guard have - And we usually can correct the problem ourselves. If we're transmitting on guard on purpose, the last thing we'll need is a bunch of guard police jamming up the frequency when we're trying to get help.
 
I've heard a few jokers pretend to be Malaysian flight 370 on guard a few times
 
gitmo234 said:
I've heard a few jokers pretend to be Malaysian flight 370 on guard a few times
Click to expand...

Crap like that makes me want to require everyone to switch to digital radios and code every transmission with your Mode S code.
 
Simple. If you aren't ATC, aren't having an emergency, or aren't relaying for someone who is, DON'T TRANSMIT ON GUARD.

If someone's on guard, ATC can hear them too, and they'll take care of the problem. "Let the mods handle it".
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So I was out flying the other day, talking to Milwaukee Approach and monitoring Guard on #2 as per my usual practice.



I hear a pilot say "Madison Approach, Arrow 12345". I realize he's probably on guard, because I'm talking to Milwaukee and he sounds a bit scratchy.



Then, I hear:



"You're on Guard!"

"Uh oh!"

"What a rookie"



Followed by:



"Madison Approach, Arrow 12345, we have an electrical fire on board." :hairraise:



So don't be a jackass and block up the frequency - While it's often a mistake that someone's transmitting on guard, sometimes it's not. Best to remain silent until you hear at least a second call. We've all transmitted on guard by accident - at least, those of us who actually monitor guard have - And we usually can correct the problem ourselves. If we're transmitting on guard on purpose, the last thing we'll need is a bunch of guard police jamming up the frequency when we're trying to get help.
Click to expand...


Wow! Did you ever find out how that turned out?
 
The clueless behavior of the "guard police" in that incident demonstrates a potential benefit of declaring an emergency.

(I hope they would not respond like that to a call that began with "Mayday, mayday, mayday"! :rolleyes:)
 
nddons said:
Wow! Did you ever find out how that turned out?
Click to expand...

I didn't get to hear everything as I was on approach to the home 'drome, but it sounded like Madison helped them down to a successful landing at Watertown.

Palmpilot said:
The clueless behavior of the "guard police" in that incident demonstrates a potential benefit of declaring an emergency.

(I hope they would not respond like that to a call that began with "Mayday, mayday, mayday"! :rolleyes:)
Click to expand...

Yep... But in the heat of the moment, you never know whether you'll have the presence of mind to say "Mayday", so I give the Arrow pilot a pass here even though I'm sure it would have helped.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yep... But in the heat of the moment, you never know whether you'll have the presence of mind to say "Mayday", so I give the Arrow pilot a pass here even though I'm sure it would have helped.
Click to expand...

My own performance in emergencies would certainly not justify my being judgmental about the way others handle them! (I came out of the situations OK, but there were certainly things I could and should have done better.)
 
If you're intentionally transmitting on Guard with a fire on board and you're talking on Guard because you don't know what frequency to be calling since you're not already in contact with ATC, don't start by saying only "Madison Approach, Arrow 12345". The first three words out of your mouth should be "Mayday", "Mayday," and "Mayday", followed by "Madison Approach, Arrow 12345 on Guard, electrical fire", preferably with a rough location. That gets their undivided attention and lets them know who needs to talk and what frequency they need to talk on.

OTOH, if I hear someone say "Boondock Traffic, Cessna 123 turning left base, touch and go, Boondock" on Guard, I'm going to try to help them get to the correct frequency a) so they are communicating with the other aircraft in that pattern, and b) so they aren't blocking a real emergency transmission. But even then, I'll keep it short, simple, and polite.
 
Yeah, the guard police puzzle me. Every time someone calls for a gate or something by mistake, you get a bunch of guys saying "guard!" etc.

The funniest guard police thing I've heard was a few years ago, over the midwest somewhere.

A regional guy calls for a gate on guard, and someone comes on, in an obviously irritated voice, saying "you're on guard..... keep this frequency clear!".

Then, someone responds, in a very convincing "Butthead" (of Beavis and Butthead fame) voice, "Uhhhhhh.... settle down kernal!"...... I think the kernal popped a vein, but not after spending at least 30 seconds reprimanding Butthead.

I was still chuckling on the drive home from work.........
 
Marine radio gets downright comical some place. Listen to 13 in the Port of Fourchon, it's like the Jerry Springer water rodeo.
 
Henning said:
Marine radio gets downright comical some place. Listen to 13 in the Port of Fourchon, it's like the Jerry Springer water rodeo.
Click to expand...


I love the radio checks on channel 16, everybody thinks they are NASA.
 
JeffDG said:
Crap like that makes me want to require everyone to switch to digital radios and code every transmission with your Mode S code.
Click to expand...

This was pretty quick. It was basically like:
Prankster: "Mayday mayday mayday this is Malaysian flight 370....we're lost".
Someone else "Okay roger, 370, where did you say you were again.... what are you flying over?"
Third party "Yeah right like he's going to tell you that...."

Flight instructor "I imagine I'll hear your voice over guard doing crap like that one day"
 
Yeah, I just turn down guard if to much noise. With more monitoring it you have more 'accidental' guard calls, gate checks and other things on 121.5.
 
Funniest was hearing something that sounded like Chewbaca on guard, with some one coming on after saying "Chewbaca on guard". Have heard guys crashing on guard though. Very sobering.
 
gitmo234 said:
This was pretty quick. It was basically like:
Prankster: "Mayday mayday mayday this is Malaysian flight 370....we're lost".
Someone else "Okay roger, 370, where did you say you were again.... what are you flying over?"
Third party "Yeah right like he's going to tell you that...."

Flight instructor "I imagine I'll hear your voice over guard doing crap like that one day"
Click to expand...

If there were any REAL guard police around, they would DF that ***hole.

While special equipment helps, it can be done with wings and a yoke.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you're intentionally transmitting on Guard with a fire on board and you're talking on Guard because you don't know what frequency to be calling since you're not already in contact with ATC, don't start by saying only "Madison Approach, Arrow 12345". The first three words out of your mouth should be "Mayday", "Mayday," and "Mayday", followed by "Madison Approach, Arrow 12345 on Guard, electrical fire", preferably with a rough location. That gets their undivided attention and lets them know who needs to talk and what frequency they need to talk on.
Click to expand...

Agreed - But again, he may have stopped short on the first transmission to do something more important than talking on the radio, so I give him a pass. Nobody performs perfectly in an emergency, and the radio is the least important thing to be dealing with.

ScottM said:
So is Kent being a Guard Police Policeman? ;-)
Click to expand...

:rofl: :goofy:
 
MAKG1 said:
If there were any REAL guard police around, they would DF that ***hole.

While special equipment helps, it can be done with wings and a yoke.
Click to expand...

lmfao good luck trying to Df a moving airplane that transmits twice to any degree of accuracy that would let you find much less prosecute.
 
MAKG1 said:
If there were any REAL guard police around, they would DF that ***hole.

While special equipment helps, it can be done with wings and a yoke.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of the airplanes I fly are certified for a steep enough turn to complete the wing shadowing process during the length of the offender's transmission!
 
Palmpilot said:
I don't think any of the airplanes I fly are certified for a steep enough turn to complete the wing shadowing process during the length of the offender's transmission!
Click to expand...

Well, that's true. Which is why you would need to string him along.

Yes, I know it's impractical.
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, that's true. Which is why you would need to string him along.

Yes, I know it's impractical.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, I did actually find an ELT with wing shadowing once. (The DF equipment was malfunctioning.) We managed to get the ground team close enough to pick up the signal.
 
What is this "guard" you keep talking about. Is it in the AFD? or the FAR's or the pilot controller glossary?
 
Doggtyred said:
What is this "guard" you keep talking about. Is it in the AFD? or the FAR's or the pilot controller glossary?
Click to expand...

Better. It's on Wikipedia. :rofl:

But, reading AIM 6-3-1.h.1 will give you one reason why it's called guard, and another is in radio terms: It's the only frequency that's used between 121.4 and 121.6 (non-inclusive). You'll never be told to contact anyone on 121.55. So, it's "guarded" in terms of the frequency band so that really old radios won't bleed over into 121.5.

I also found this, from the NTIA, in a document about the 225-328 MHz band:

NTIA said:
The frequency 243 MHz is used on the radios onboard most Federal aircraft as a special channel, called a “guard” channel that is used for distress and safety purposes, including search and rescue.
Click to expand...

I don't remember where I learned that 121.5=guard, but it's in common use. I was actually surprised to not find it in the PCG, since in the bad old days before onboard weather it was normal to call ATC and "request momentary frequency change to check weather, will monitor guard."
 
Henning said:
Marine radio gets downright comical some place. Listen to 13 in the Port of Fourchon, it's like the Jerry Springer water rodeo.
Click to expand...

In Vietnam, it was common to hear the following exchange.

First unknown voice: "Testing, testing on guard."

Second unknown voice: "Get off guard, you idiot!"

First unknown voice: "Thank you."
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Better. It's on Wikipedia. :rofl:

But, reading AIM 6-3-1.h.1 will give you one reason why it's called guard, and another is in radio terms: It's the only frequency that's used between 121.4 and 121.6 (non-inclusive). You'll never be told to contact anyone on 121.55. So, it's "guarded" in terms of the frequency band so that really old radios won't bleed over into 121.5.

I also found this, from the NTIA, in a document about the 225-328 MHz band:



I don't remember where I learned that 121.5=guard, but it's in common use. I was actually surprised to not find it in the PCG, since in the bad old days before onboard weather it was normal to call ATC and "request momentary frequency change to check weather, will monitor guard."
Click to expand...

Its nomenclature is military in origin. ;) But so many former military folks seem to forget there is no requirement for civilian aviators to be familiar with military lingo. Thats my point.
 
Doggtyred said:
Its nomenclature is military in origin. ;) But so many former military folks seem to forget there is no requirement for civilian aviators to be familiar with military lingo. Thats my point.
Click to expand...
Actually, there are notices on VFR charts and throughout the AIM that pilots are required to maintain a listening watch on guard if possible: "All aircraft operating in US national airspace are highly encouraged to maintain a listening watch on VHF/UHF guard frequencies (121.5 or 243.0 MHz)." The term VHF Guard is used repeatedly in the AIM.
 
What's the appropriate thing to do if you hear something like this:

App: "Flight xyz, Approach on Guard"
(silence)
App: "Flight xyz, Approach on Guard"
(silence)
 
Jaybird180 said:
What's the appropriate thing to do if you hear something like this:

App: "Flight xyz, Approach on Guard"
(silence)
App: "Flight xyz, Approach on Guard"
(silence)
Click to expand...
Nothing. It means approach has no contact with a flight and is trying to reach them. Maybe because they are penetrating a TFR or restricted area.
 
jesse said:
lmfao good luck trying to Df a moving airplane that transmits twice to any degree of accuracy that would let you find much less prosecute.
Click to expand...

Not with a wing and yoke, but I certainly know of & used to have access to equipment that can. And a technique to positively confirm at a later time that said transmitter was the one used by the perp. ;)

But yes, most folks don't have access to that equipment. Even most police are more interested in cell intercepts than Guard, not worth the time.
 
frcabot said:
Nothing. It means approach has no contact with a flight and is trying to reach them. Maybe because they are penetrating a TFR or restricted area.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but their voice was strained and they were trying to reach an airliner.
 
Doggtyred said:
Its nomenclature is military in origin. ;) But so many former military folks seem to forget there is no requirement for civilian aviators to be familiar with military lingo. Thats my point.
Click to expand...

In the military, I've always heard it referred to as IAD.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top