Doing the math - buy a trainer to train, or rent

Sounds like a pretty good plan all around. Do wait until you have the SI or 3rd class in hand before going over the falls, so to speak. If anyone can do it, Dr Bruce can. Keep your option open for LSA, there are plenty of planes I mentioned that fit into that realm, and some of them are in your price point as well.

While I understand the reasoning for the LSA weight rules, I'm with you on wondering how logic failed in the drawing up of the weight part of it. It sure seems to me that a weight limit of say, 1650 consider that most of the US are fatazzes! hehehee. Keep your eyes open while you rent, something might pop up when you least expect it. An offah - you canna refuse. :lol:
 
My view: rent during training. Get all those bad landings out of the way on someone elses airplane.

Then fly as a private pilot for a bit to figure out what you really want
 
jbrinker said:
Around here, renting is not cheap. Where I train, I have two choices - rent from my instructor at $120/hr wet, or join the local flying club that has the same plane as a trainer for $110 wet. (Both hobbes time)

Club costs $300 for student to join, plus $80/month, plus $400 more when you pass the checkride. Not worth it for me compared to just renting from the instructor. (Club does have some nice other planes that might make sense for other reasons someday)

at $120/hr, buying an older c172, c150, PA28 or something else around say $15-20K starts to look really good. But I'm thinking of this like a car guy, not a plane guy - so I ask on here for someone to help me do the real math.

Things I'm considering:
- Plane cost, I can front that much cash if I have to, or get a loan.
- Insurance - I assume I need some, or at least should have liability
- Maintenance (big unknown to me - instructor is an A&P though)
- Storage/tie-down/hanger
- Fuel/oil/hr
- Eventual sales amount/depreciation

I live in upstate NY, there are a few airports I could base out of, including the one where my instructor is (KSYR), or Skaneateles (6B9).

Thoughts on how to figure the actual costs of buy vs. rent? I'm only about 6hrs in at this point, thinking this is better decision to make sooner rather than later...
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If you plan on getting both your private and Instrument ratings, then without question, you are better off buying.

Your private rating will take you between 50-60hrs to complete. Your Instrument rating will take about as long. At the rates you quoted, you'll spend $10,000-$12,000 for both ratings.

A C-172/Cherokee 140 is perfect for your situation. Nice example of each can be bought for about $25-$40k, and your monthly payments (assuming you finance will be $300/mo or less).

Additionally, you'll finish faster due to availability of your plane.

I think you'll be able to sell a Cherokee 140 faster than a Cessna 150. With the Cherokee, you get a plane with significantly more room, better speed, load carrying ability and similar fuel burn to a C-150.

If i were in your shoes, i'd pull the trigger on a plane.
 
If i were in your shoes, i'd pull the trigger on a plane.
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Right after he gets the 3rd Class medical issue resolved OR the PBOR2 gets passed.
 
docmirror said:
OP specifically is talking about buying to train in, then selling.
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To me that might mean buying, then getting stuck with.......a barking dog. Easy to do when you have little experience especially when so many old Crates are around now compared to some years back. I'd use the flight schools plane until I had a PPL. Having been burned years ago , I have become very cautious.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
To me that might mean buying, then getting stuck with.......a barking dog. Easy to do when you have little experience especially when so many old Crates are around now compared to some years back. I'd use the flight schools plane until I had a PPL. Having been burned years ago , I have become very cautious.
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Make up any drama fantasy you want, I don't care.

So, you have advice. I don't know why you need to quote me to give your POV. :dunno:
 
Jeff, just a few points: First, the club of which you speak (full disclosure for the rest of the board, I am an officer in it, and the OP and I have previously communicated) charges $95 per Hobbs hour (not $110) for the 140, in which all primary training is conducted. And second, if you buy a plane and plan to tie it down outside, in the upstate NY winter, you're simply not going to fly from about January to March. Finally, I don't know any pilots insuring their airplane, even just for liability, for $250/year.

With that said, if the (realistic) numbers work for you financially, by all means buy a plane...once you get your medical squared away. The ability to fly when you want, and equip your plane as you want, is worth a lot. Personally, I fly about 100 hours per year, and I just can't make the numbers work for ownership. For the initiation fee plus the monthly ground fee, I get access to three airplanes at what I think are pretty reasonable hourly rates, and when something breaks -- not a rare occurrence with older airplanes -- I don't have to worry about writing a four-figure check.

Whichever way you decide to go, as others have pointed out, get the medical issue sorted out first, since sport pilot would significantly limit your options.
 
Thanks Brian, Yes - as I said above I believe for the time being it makes sense to rent (Gopi the instructors plane for now, perhaps the club after I get medical sorted out). Either way, until I get medical and at least solo, I think I'm good with renting for now. I decided to wait to consider membership until after solo/medical as well (saving the initiation fee in case I don't get a medical...)

I apologize if I got the rate incorrect, and some of these other numbers were just guesses based on various posts/websites/etc. Just to get a ballpark feel.

@everyone else:
I hope future folks find this conversation useful and interesting - by no means did I mean to create a thread that becomes argumentative. Clearly there are pluses and minuses to buying vs. renting. And clearly there is a risk to owning at all. That risk can be mitigated by joining a club (which will spread it out - you still pay for it in a way) or possibly a partnership. It's up to each to run the numbers, and make an accurate assessment of how much flying will actually happen, what kind of plane you need, and then make an informed choice.

Certainly this thread has opened my eyes up to both these risks, and the other possibilities (club, partnerships,etc).
 
If I were your position, and you get the medical situation sorted, I would find a decent IFR certified Piper Tri-Pacer. Less demand equals less price. Four seats for flying people after PPL. Cheap and easy maintenance and low gas usage. Tube and fabric may turn some people off, but they are pretty rugged. I see decent for sale in the low-mid 20's.

Whatever you choose good luck with your flying,
 
If you really understand what your mission will be once you get your PPL, go get the airplane that matches your mission. If you just want an airplane to train in and climb ratings, rent. If you don't know your mission (since you've never before owned or flown an airplane) rent.

Owning an airplane you're one bad landing or one bad annual away from being upside down. If you own because you like it, that isn't so bad, and you'll probably make it back flying the aircraft for a long time. If you just want to train, you can wind up spending loads and loads more than renting.
 
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