Does the DC SFRA actually protect?

PeterNSteinmetz

PeterNSteinmetz

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PeterNSteinmetz
The area under observation is much larger then the SFRA. A plane charging the SFRA a hundred miles out at 400 kts will get attention.
 
Traffic flying into DCA gets close enough to throw rocks at the Pentagon, but is a good 30 seconds away from the White House.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Traffic flying into DCA gets close enough to throw rocks at the Pentagon, but is a good 30 seconds away from the White House.
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Closer than a stones' throw; traffic straight in on runway 15 fly directly over the Pentagon at less than 500 feet.
 
there's more that can't be discussed in public....yes, it's monitored tightly.

Not sure deploying F-16's was an appropriate counter to the perceived threat....but. Blackhawks woulda been fine.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
This news item got me to thinking - does the DC SFRA actually protect from attacks like those in Sept 2001?

Jets are moving fairly quickly and it takes a while to scramble fighters. The SFRA has a radius of only 30 nm.

Is it likely to do any good ? Or more security theater?

https://wjla.com/news/local/f-16s-dispatched-to-intercept-civilian-aircraft-that-entered-dc-airspace
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Speaking as someone who is based at one of the three FRZ airports, many of the procedures have the element of security theater. That said, I'm happy to not complain, because I'm sure they could come up with something even more absurd that will make flying in this airspace even more difficult.
 
It protects the pavement in the DCA Signature tiedown area. Without the SFRA/FRZ they would have had to pave that area at least once.
 
Seems to be total security theatre to me.

A real threat would act like a “normal” operation until very close to the target.

The gyroplane guy that landed at the capital made a fool out of whoever is supposed to be “watching”.
 
dans2992 said:
Seems to be total security theatre to me.

A real threat would act like a “normal” operation until very close to the target.

The gyroplane guy that landed at the capital made a fool out of whoever is supposed to be “watching”.
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did you want the authorities to make a large fan fare from this event....and blow cover? o_O

the rumor mill around town is that secret service and park service were watching the event transpire....and didn't view the gyro guy as a reasonable threat. They were ready to neutralize him....if needed.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Jets are moving fairly quickly and it takes a while to scramble fighters. The SFRA has a radius of only 30 nm.
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Don't forget about the various missile batteries that are deployed to deal with potential threats...
 
I've seen commercial airliners fly through P-56 for windshear warning. Its not like the SS know its because of windshear until afterwards. A lot more common than you think. Someone went through P-56 and the captain said he was avoiding an eagle. Its a crime to kill an eagle you know. No punishment
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
did you want the authorities to make a large fan fare from this event....and blow cover? o_O

the rumor mill around town is that secret service and park service were watching the event transpire....and didn't view the gyro guy as a reasonable threat. They were ready to neutralize him....if needed.
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Sure... what else would they say when embarrassed so badly!?

I’d bet when push comes to shove, they’d have a difficult time making the decision to blow a civilian aircraft out of the sky in the necessary timeframe. Especially if you maybe were just outside the airspace, then acted as if you had some kind of issue and declared an emergency and made a beeline for DCA...
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
did you want the authorities to make a large fan fare from this event....and blow cover? o_O

the rumor mill around town is that secret service and park service were watching the event transpire....and didn't view the gyro guy as a reasonable threat. They were ready to neutralize him....if needed.
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I don’t know about the park service, but the Secret Service, circa 2015, bumbled often.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/secret-service-disaster-timeline/387643/

For example, a month before the gyroplane landing in 2015, there was a White House bomb investigation that was marred by the #2 official in the president’s security detail. He was drunk and drove his car over security tape that was intended to isolate the suspected bomb. It’s possible he even drove over the suspicious package, in his drunkenness.
 
2 F16s ? They sure know how the waste our money ... all of that to protect a few old farts that could easily be replaced by another set of old farts without anyone even noticing ...
 
Warmi said:
2 F16s ? They sure know how the waste our money ... all of that to protect a few old farts that could easily be replaced by another set of old farts without anyone even noticing ...
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ya but....those new farts need to be voted in first. ;)
 
Got a question... thought I'd put it here rather than starting a new thread...

I just reviewed the online course for the DC SFRA. The course doesn't discuss one thing (or I missed it, which is more likely)... If you are not allowed to EVER squawk 1200 in the SFRA, how do you get a discreet code before departing a non-towered airport in the SFRA (albeit there's only a couple anywayz). Leesburg procedures are pretty clear, but that's it. What would you do if you were, say, departing 2W5?

Thanks, in advance...
 
never....I repeat....never have 1200 on the transponder while inside the SFRA. You will be violated....even if you're taxiing.
 
FlySince9 said:
yea, annnd? what about my question?
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leave the transponder "off" until you get a code.....and don't pass thru 1200 when entering the new code. Contact ATC via phone or radio....before taking off.
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
leave the transponder "off" until you get a code.....and don't pass thru 1200 when entering the new code.
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so you take off into the SFRA with no transponder until you talk to ATC? That doesn't sound right... That seems ridiculous to be illegal with 1200 but okay with nothing... you sure about that?

I see you're from Maryland, is that the way you've done it? Or have you operated out of towered airports only?
 
FlySince9 said:
so you take off into the SFRA with no transponder until you talk to ATC? That doesn't sound right... That seems ridiculous to be illegal with 1200 but okay with nothing... you sure about that?
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No...you must make contact before taking off....either by phone or radio.
 
Get a code on the ground, before taxiing. Call or on the radio.

As Sixie said, have the transponder in the "off" setting, get the code, enter the code, turn the transponder to on/alt, and then taxi. Don't move the plane until you have your code for that flight



Wayne
 
wayne said:
Get a code on the ground, before taxiing. Call or on the radio.

As Sixie said, have the transponder in the "off" setting, get the code, enter the code, turn the transponder to on/alt, and then taxi. Don't move the plane until you have your code for that flight



Wayne
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Got it..thanks!
 
FlySince9 said:
Got it..thanks!
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Oh and one other thing...
If you are already on flight following how does it work when you get passed to Potomac Approach. Do they see your flight SFRA flight plan, or do you have to tell them there is one?
 
FlySince9 said:
Oh and one other thing...
If you are already on flight following how does it work when you get passed to Potomac Approach. Do they see your flight SFRA flight plan, or do you have to tell them there is one?
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they are one and the same....you will be using Potomac for Flight following.
 
FlySince9 said:
No, I mean if I pick up flight following when I leave home... will they see it, or will I have to ask?
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you will have to file an SFRA flight plan via phone.....that might be before you leave...and it will be on file and when you sequence to Potomac they will have it as you transition.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
never....I repeat....never have 1200 on the transponder while inside the SFRA. You will be violated....even if you're taxiing.
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Taxiing?

Can you cite anything authoritative that says “taxiing”, in the context of squawking?

The FAA’s own course does not mention “taxiing” or “ground”, just “while flying”:

upload_2020-1-5_13-32-53.jpeg​
 
Be sure that you remain on Flight Following ALL the way to the airport approach. If you enter the ADIZ without being in radio contact and talking to ATC before entering, you are illegal, and will be intercepted/violated.

There have been over 1,000 interceptions/violations since 9/11. Proper communications is essential, and squawking 1200 is forbidden, period. Don't even squaw 1200 within miles of the airspace, the line on the military radar is not accurate, and they err on the long side.

Welcome to Washington, DC, most of us here are friendly!
 
What is unclear about "You must always be on a discrete code before operating in this airspace? Not just flying, simply operating your transponder is a violation if it is not on an assigned discrete code. PERIOD. The assigned code coming is is not legal to turn on before going out, it must be the code assigned for this flight, specifically. Simply dialing through 1200 from one assigned code to another is a violation. The illegal transmission while on the ground is detected by airborne surveillance, so can be a violation with out the transponder being swept by radar.

All flight plans inside the airspace are filed and treated as IFR, even if the pilot is VFR only. Don't nit pick the rules here, they don't cut any slack for allegedly miss understanding the rules, they simply take your privilege to fly for however long they think will make you think more clearly next time.



upload_2020-1-5_13-32-53-jpeg.81643
 
...because... you know, terrorists would squak 1200 of course.... turning off the transponder is illegal within the mode C veil, so 1200 would be their only option....
 
geezer said:
What is unclear about "You must always be on a discrete code before operating in this airspace? Not just flying, simply operating your transponder is a violation if it is not on an assigned discrete code. PERIOD. The assigned code coming is is not legal to turn on before going out, it must be the code assigned for this flight, specifically. Simply dialing through 1200 from one assigned code to another is a violation. The illegal transmission while on the ground is detected by airborne surveillance, so can be a violation with out the transponder being swept by radar.

All flight plans inside the airspace are filed and treated as IFR, even if the pilot is VFR only. Don't nit pick the rules here, they don't cut any slack for allegedly miss understanding the rules, they simply take your privilege to fly for however long they think will make you think more clearly next time.



upload_2020-1-5_13-32-53-jpeg.81643
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Terrifying.
 
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