Does Mike Busch have this one right?

Ray Jr

Ray Jr

Pre-takeoff checklist
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In one of his books he says the cost to operate/maintain a piston airplane is about 3x the cost of the fuel per hour.

So if you're burning 10 gal/hour, at $5 gallons, it would cost about $150/hour to fly and maintain the aircraft over time.

100 hours in a year would cost $15,000 in fuel an maintenance.

Does your experience come close to that?
 
Ray Jr said:
100 hours in a year would cost $15,000 in fuel an maintenance.

Does your experience come close to that?
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Yeah I’d say that’s pretty close to being accurate.

I flew the Archer over 100hrs last year. When doing some rough calculations for fuel, hangar, maintenance and insurance, that number (3x the cost of fuel per hour) is right in the ballpark.
 
That sounds about right if you pay labor rates for inspections and repairs. If your airplane is experimental and you have a repairman certificate, you can eliminate a lot of labor costs by doing maintenance and inspections yourself. Fuel and other consumables, insurance, property taxes, and hangar rent will be the same though.
 
Sounds about right to me as well especially when you count hangar, engine TBO, and loss of capital. If you fly under 150 hrs/yr, cheaper to rent.
 
I fly about 100 hours per year.

Hangar = $5,400/yr = $54/flight hr
Insurance = $4,200/yr = $42/flight hr
Maintenance (annuals, etc) = $6,000/r = $60/flight hr
Fuel = 16 gals/hr x $4/gal = $64/flight hr

Total = $22,000/yr = $220/flight hr

When I bought my Cherokee 6XT about 19 months ago, I budgeted $25,000 per year, or $250/hr. I read somewhere that the "real number" was about $300/hr. Turns out I estimated low on insurance, but fuel and maintenance have been less than expected. I have my A&P fix anything and everything, no deferred maintenance. I have also invested about $9,000 in upgrades since purchase. Fuel prices have varied from $3.25 to about $4.50 and $4 is probably a bit high for an average.

So, for my particular airplane with my costs, its about 3.5 times the cost of fuel.

However, if you want to add more realism, factor in the future cost of an engine rebuild. For my Lycoming TIO-540-AH1A the current average overhaul is about $75,000. With a published TBO of 2,000 hours, that's about $38/ flight hr bringing it to 4 times fuel costs.

Beyond these simplistic numbers, calculating the ownership costs can get really complicated.

I try hard not to think about this!

(Check my math!)
 
Ray Jr said:
In one of his books he says the cost to operate/maintain a piston airplane is about 3x the cost of the fuel per hour.

So if you're burning 10 gal/hour, at $5 gallons, it would cost about $150/hour to fly and maintain the aircraft over time.

100 hours in a year would cost $15,000 in fuel an maintenance.

Does your experience come close to that?
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Not maintenance alone, but add insurance, hangar, etc then yes.
 
That's not an easy question to answer without more context. When I read "the cost to operate/maintain a piston airplane" I'm going to exclude things like insurance, hangar/tiedown, etc. Also, you may choose to have upgrades installed. And, of course, does this figure include an engine reserve fund?

If you're just looking at direct expense to operate/maintain my aircraft, C172N, my formula comes out around 1.5X the cost of fuel an hour...
 
The rule of thumb for rental aircraft pricing was 4 x fuel cost. The problem with such "yardsticks" is that fuel price fluctuates. Hell, last week my first fuel stop was $3.85 and my second was $6.31. Which of those was I to use?
 
It's close to 2x for 2 place light planes, 2.5x for 4 place, and 3x for the heavier singles. People have used this for decades, I had to lol, now that Mike Busch has discovered it.
 
Ray Jr said:
Does your experience come close to that?
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I try not to look too closely at the bills. But yeah -- that does seem to be in the ballpark.
 
martym said:
It's close to 2x for 2 place light planes, 2.5x for 4 place, and 3x for the heavier singles. People have used this for decades, I had to lol, now that Mike Busch has discovered it.
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I believe he called it "The old adage". He was thoughtful enough to write it down and make it available for me to hear it for the first time.
 
asicer said:
On a Cherokee6? Ouch!
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It's a restart turbo six (6XT). Hull value, you know that thing most people on here dismiss as "the cheapest part of owning" just because they can rent the money for it. Insurance is the great equalizer these days. The high cost of low interest rates. I digress.
 
It depends a lot on how many hours you fly each year since most costs associated with airplane ownership are fixed costs. From 2013 to 2018 a bunch of us flew my Cherokee. I spent $34,238 and we flew 680 hours or 136 hours per year. That averages $50 per hour when fuel costs were about $4.50 * 8 gph or $36. Cut the hours in half, which would be closer to what one person would do and the costs would be $100 per hour which fits in with the 3x fuel costs rule of thumb.

On the other hand, I know people who are probably in the $600 per hour range.
 
hindsight2020 said:
It's a restart turbo six (6XT). Hull value, you know that thing most people on here dismiss as "the cheapest part of owning" just because they can rent the money for it. Insurance is the great equalizer these days. The high cost of low interest rates. I digress.
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Well, it's still a Cherokee Six and $4200/yr insurance still stings. :)
 
If 100 pilots did accurate accounting with rules of what counts and what doesn’t you’d have 100 different answers. If 100 guys say 3-1? You can bet they’re fudging the numbers and it’s higher than that. Pilots are famous for poor math.
 
It probably various a bit with location, Idaho I usually figured rental rates should be about 2x the fuel cost, but this is probably based on at least 300hrs per year usage. Newer/higher value airplanes may be a higher due to insurance and increase purchase cost.

Brian
 
I was taught 4x fuel for a light single. Even that might not cover required engine reserves and avionics upgrades to maintain utility and improve safety. But it's a good place to start a back of the envelope estimate of ownership costs. The real cost is probably significantly different for a recreational VFR aircraft and an IFR equipped plane.
 
asicer said:
Well, it's still a Cherokee Six and $4200/yr insurance still stings. :)
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The guy who sold it to me (he had a lot more experience than I) was paying $2,450 annually, but had no clue about the increase he was about to experience in the insurance market. I had about 150 hours total flying time at the time and this was a high-performance engine with a constant speed prop. The fact that it has fixed gear probably kept it under $7k. I was just happy to get coverage!
 
Stewartb said:
If 100 pilots did accurate accounting with rules of what counts and what doesn’t you’d have 100 different answers. If 100 guys say 3-1? You can bet they’re fudging the numbers and it’s higher than that. Pilots are famous for poor math.
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Hard to fudge when you write 1 check for annual, 1 check for insurance, 1 check for hangar, and everything else goes on a card dedicated for the airplane. Which one am I going to fudge? I only have 4 items to add together.
 
I think it makes sense to use the fuel cost at the location you do your maintenance. That would probably correlate well to maintenance costs.
 
dfw11411 said:
I fly about 100 hours per year.

Hangar = $5,400/yr = $54/flight hr
Insurance = $4,200/yr = $42/flight hr
Maintenance (annuals, etc) = $6,000/r = $60/flight hr
Fuel = 16 gals/hr x $4/gal = $64/flight hr

Total = $22,000/yr = $220/flight hr

When I bought my Cherokee 6XT about 19 months ago, I budgeted $25,000 per year, or $250/hr. I read somewhere that the "real number" was about $300/hr. Turns out I estimated low on insurance, but fuel and maintenance have been less than expected. I have my A&P fix anything and everything, no deferred maintenance. I have also invested about $9,000 in upgrades since purchase. Fuel prices have varied from $3.25 to about $4.50 and $4 is probably a bit high for an average.

So, for my particular airplane with my costs, its about 3.5 times the cost of fuel.

However, if you want to add more realism, factor in the future cost of an engine rebuild. For my Lycoming TIO-540-AH1A the current average overhaul is about $75,000. With a published TBO of 2,000 hours, that's about $38/ flight hr bringing it to 4 times fuel costs.

Beyond these simplistic numbers, calculating the ownership costs can get really complicated.

I try hard not to think about this!

(Check my math!)
Click to expand...
For me, the 3 times hourly fuel may be a little high. But as you point out, it depends on what all you include in "total cost". You factored in engine rebuild. How about periodic panel upgrades?

Also, perhaps $4/hour is appropriate for you, but I rarely buy fuel for less than low $4s and often buy fuel much higher than that. I"d say my average fuel cost is more like $4.75 to $5. Adding a $/gallon to your calcs prings you fuel cost up to $80/hour or $24,000/year.

So again, I think 3 time hourly fuel is high. But I'd rather overestimate cost than run out of money in November.
 
Upgrades are another factor. Often in the 5 digits, especially autopilots and navigators.
 
That's not a bad basis for planning, real world that can vary wildly. For example, that number would be low for my flying in the last year, but (assuming nothing else broke), would have been high for my planned flying. I planned to fly 100 hours last year, but I actually flew closer to 30 (2020 threw all of my plans out the window). Also, make sure you budget for a few grand extra that first year, even more if the plane you bought has not flew.
 
This old adage is also used in independent long haul trucking. Your revenue mileage rate is 1/3 for fuel, 1/3 for maintenance and payments, 1/3 for the driver/owner.

Interestingly, it also works for Lawyers, Accountants etc. Your revenue rate is 1/3 for rent, 1/3 for staff and supplies, 1/3 for the professional.
 
Ray Jr said:
In one of his books he says the cost to operate/maintain a piston airplane is about 3x the cost of the fuel per hour.

So if you're burning 10 gal/hour, at $5 gallons, it would cost about $150/hour to fly and maintain the aircraft over time.

100 hours in a year would cost $15,000 in fuel an maintenance.

Does your experience come close to that?
Click to expand...
This is definitely accurate for some fuel prices.
 
It's probably somewhere between 2-3x fuel costs/hr for my Warrior which based on that math, it's true renting would be more cost effective than owning. But I'm sure many of you would agree that there are intangibles that make owning vs. renting worth it that you just can't spreadsheet. Being able to go where you want to go when you want without competing with students or other renters to be able to take the plane out of town makes it worth it. Flying locally for the proverbial $100 hamburger is fun, but there's nothing like taking your plane on a true cross-country trip over days or weeks. For example, @hindsight2020 shared some posts detailing the trip he took in his Arrow from Texas to Puerto Rico. Stuff like this is why I love GA.
 
MD2105 said:
It's probably somewhere between 2-3x fuel costs/hr for my Warrior which based on that math, it's true renting would be more cost effective than owning. But I'm sure many of you would agree that there are intangibles that make owning vs. renting worth it that you just can't spreadsheet. Being able to go where you want to go when you want without competing with students or other renters to be able to take the plane out of town makes it worth it. Flying locally for the proverbial $100 hamburger is fun, but there's nothing like taking your plane on a true cross-country trip over days or weeks. For example, @hindsight2020 shared some posts detailing the trip he took in his Arrow from Texas to Puerto Rico. Stuff like this is why I love GA.
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Indeed. More to the point, there are no rental options available in my area where I could have taken an airplane of similar performance and do what I did for as long as I did it, let alone without incurring non-starter minimum day rental fees for such a bucket list trip. People always proffer the rental comparison, but in many of the locations I've lived in, that option is simply non-existent even if I were willing to avail myself to such an option. Thus I find the rental retort often rather specious; not everybody lives in the suburbs of dfw, atl, Socal or the like.
 
Man! This thread is depressing! It’s pulling my head out of the sand causing me to think about how much money I pour into aviation.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Man! This thread is depressing! It’s pulling my head out of the sand causing me to think about how much money I pour into aviation.
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To be fair, if one adds up everything they spend on owning & operating their car it's pretty shocking, especially if it's a nice car that depreciates. In our case the airplane reduces the annual mileage on our van by 1/3. Granted those miles are probably 2-3x more expensive, but there is some value there.

I put my airplane into the transportation category of my budget. I'm probably going to spend ~20k on the airplane this year, but 5-6 of that will be "saved" elsewhere in car expenses and hotels. That includes mx, hangar, reserves, insurance, & fuel. I'm ignoring cost of money as I expect to sell this airplane for more than I paid for it.

I'll be in the neighborhood of 4x fuel this year, but my insurance is astronomical due to my low time in retracts. I should be closer to 3 when I get to 110hrs in type.
 
Dunno. I once totally everything I spent on the airplane one year. I assiduously vowed never to do such a thing again. I have no idea how much it costs to run my airplane. I don't want to know. If I knew I'd probably stop flying altogether.
 
Ray Jr said:
In one of his books he says the cost to operate/maintain a piston airplane is about 3x the cost of the fuel per hour.

So if you're burning 10 gal/hour, at $5 gallons, it would cost about $150/hour to fly and maintain the aircraft over time.

100 hours in a year would cost $15,000 in fuel an maintenance.

Does your experience come close to that?
Click to expand...

I did the math once and quickly realized ignorance is a bliss...financially it makes little sense for us (I have a partner) to own. If we didn't have a 5 year warranty from the factory, I doubt 3x would be enough to cover the MX.
 
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