Does anyone own a Diamond DA-40

The back seat of a cherokee is no picnic. But any of the short body mooneys, the back seat is for small kids at best. One of the long bodies (models F+) will have good better seating capacity.
 
DA40 is fun but for 3 people some of the time I’d go 182. Easy to get in/out for your wife, can carry a kid. Sounds very unlikely all 4 of you will fly together but can be done in the 182. Certainly not as sexy as a DA40, but one of the best airplanes ever made. Depending on your wallet you can get one with turbo and G1000. You can make it bush plane. There is an RG version, hell there is a turbo RG version, both for half the price of a newer DA40 and more capable.
 
Sinistar said:
You mention your wife wanting more room for your grown son in the back seat. I have a hunch if you, wife and junior do a flight she might be in the back seat...and maybe this is why she's worried about it.
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That’s a good point that I hadn’t considered.
 
Geosync said:
DA40 is fun but for 3 people some of the time I’d go 182. Easy to get in/out for your wife, can carry a kid. Sounds very unlikely all 4 of you will fly together but can be done in the 182. Certainly not as sexy as a DA40, but one of the best airplanes ever made. Depending on your wallet you can get one with turbo and G1000. You can make it bush plane. There is an RG version, hell there is a turbo RG version, both for half the price of a newer DA40 and more capable.
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You know, my biggest gripe on the Cessna’s is how many sellers price them. If you find a cheap one it’s usually high time, needing a new engine with avionics as old as me. Even some of those are priced like your getting a fairly current model with great ifr capabilities then I read the description and it’s just an overpriced 80s era vfr platform. I’m not really knocking the older cessnas, I just don’t understand how some people ask the prices they do.
 
Will Kumley said:
Sounds a lot like the Cherokee I learned in. Not a bubble canopy but crazy hot on the ground. We would usually taxi with the door open - although I don't think that is an option with the Diamond.
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The '40s I used to use to train instruments had a "semi-closed" position on the canopy latch. It would hold it open a couple inches but still be secure enough you did not need to hold on while taxiing.
 
Will Kumley said:
You know, my biggest gripe on the Cessna’s is how many sellers price them. If you find a cheap one it’s usually high time, needing a new engine with avionics as old as me. Even some of those are priced like your getting a fairly current model with great ifr capabilities then I read the description and it’s just an overpriced 80s era vfr platform. I’m not really knocking the older cessnas, I just don’t understand how some people ask the prices they do.
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It's always what the market will bear. With both the 172 and 182 it's long-term history, familiarity and popularity. With the 182, it the addition of its pickup truck capacity and weight handling.

I have lots of hours in the bunch from 150 to TR182. Got my instrument rating, commercial, CFI and CFII in Cessnas. I wouldn't buy one but can easily understand the popularity and pricing.
 
Will Kumley said:
Not gonna lie, I do like the look of the Mooney. However, after I got my cert in the Cherokee 140 my wife still hasn't flown in it as she thinks the back seat is too small. I personally think its a non-issue as she will now sit in the front seat next to me but she seems to think our son in college will want the extra room in the backseat. I'm still trying to convince her that he likely won't be hanging out with us much more once he gets back into school after this covid calamity calms down enough for the schools to open campuses again. I hear the Mooney backseat isn't much better, and possibly tighter than the backseat of a Cherokee 140. There is one on the ramp at my airport that is rumored to be cheap but its been parked for a few years after a prop strike that is still evident when looking at it and peeking in the windows the front seats are back against the rear seas so unless I have a legless child I'm confident she won't even look past the door of a Mooney.
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Piper Arrow around 1972 (71?) was stretched 4” or something for more rear seat room. I have no problem getting adults in the back of mine. Relatively inexpensive to own/operate. Goes about 135-140.
 
Re seat comfort, I (and many other DA40 pilots) use Oregon Aero cushions, which greatly help the issue with minimal headroom loss. In addition, 2008 and up DA40's have a taller canopy (1-2" depending on who you talk to). It can be retrofitted but is $$$.
 
I'll give the Cardinal another plug. It fits your mission and when your wife looks at the big doors and all the room inside she'll think it fits her idea of what you'll be doing. They are nice handling and comfortable although not as fast as the Diamond. Available in both fixed gear and retract.

Someone did mention wing issues and what they are probably thinking about is that there is a mandatory service letter for an eddy current inspection of the spar carry through inside the cabin. You're supposed to accomplish this within 10 hours after reaching 15,000 flight hours. Most of the fleet will is likely well short of reaching that milestone. At any rate just get a good prebuy and make sure the spar is looked at then.
 
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Cardinal RG will give you 135 kts on 10 gal / hour, wider than a 182 or a Diamond (I believe). Can't carry as much as as a 182 and not as fast as a Diamond. But will be 1/2 the cost of a Diamond, and cheaper than a 182.
 
Will Kumley said:
Cardinals/Commanders look great, but as a very new pilot I'm thinking of staying away from retracts as I've heard insurance can be steep for someone like me and right now we are literally in the dreaming stage, which means if this even happens it will be a cheaper overall (maint,ins, gph, etc...) airplane
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There are fixed gear Cardinals. A and B models as well as 68s (many of which have had their engines upgraded). 69 actually has the highest useful load.
 
I'm not a fan, but some folks are. They perform extremely similarly to Tigers (economy and speed), but Tigers do everything better (comfort, load, flying dynamics, turbulence, etc.). Tigers climb better, and without the same ridiculous nose up attitude. I find the stick location annoying (I'm not anti-stick - I love the Cirrus stick) - but that is personal preference. There are quite a few out there as personal aircraft, though it seems like a lot of those start out as flight school planes and are bought on the secondary market (Wayne might be able to expand on that). ULs are pretty horrible. Glide ratio is awesome and a real safety game changer, but they are pretty hard to recover from spins (they do recover though). They trim out really well in cruise.
 
N1120A said:
I'm not a fan, but some folks are. They perform extremely similarly to Tigers (economy and speed), but Tigers do everything better (comfort, load, flying dynamics, turbulence, etc.). Tigers climb better, and without the same ridiculous nose up attitude.
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Wait, which airplane are you talking about? The Cardinal? The DA40 sure doesn't have a "ridiculous nose up attitude"... To me, it feels vastly different than other planes on takeoff because you don't even perceive the nose coming up, and it's like the ground just falls away.
 
I was seriously looking at buying one once, to the point where I got a checkout on one and rented it a while. I liked it. Better fuel burn and about the same TAS as the Arrow despite the fixed gear. Loved the center stick. Range is a bit limited, and ground taxiing is a bit of a pain with the castering nosewheel. I flew an older model with the small rudder, which didn't really have enough authority on the ground. And for whatever reason, it wouldn't idle without cutting out. I think the heat caused vapor lock.
 
The funniest thing related to Diamond is the Airframe Temperature indicator between the seats. If the indicator is activated you can't fly because the skin is too hot (and I guess too degraded from the heat). Fortunately, it has to be 131 Degrees F to be activated which is quite unlikely in most cases, and I think only applicable to the DA-20... but still funny...
 
FlySince9 said:
The funniest thing related to Diamond is the Airframe Temperature indicator between the seats. If the indicator is activated you can't fly because the skin is too hot (and I guess too degraded from the heat). Fortunately, it has to be 131 Degrees F to be activated which is quite unlikely in most cases, and I think only applicable to the DA-20... but still funny...
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That's only the 20s and not unique to Diamond. The Piaggio Avanti and a few other certified aircraft also have skin temperature limits.
 
One thing on the DA40 I will never complain about - the nosewheel. Castering nosewheels should be how all fixed gears are equipped.

flyingcheesehead said:
Wait, which airplane are you talking about? The Cardinal? The DA40 sure doesn't have a "ridiculous nose up attitude"... To me, it feels vastly different than other planes on takeoff because you don't even perceive the nose coming up, and it's like the ground just falls away.
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Totally disagree, and I mean the DA40.
 
Will Kumley said:
Really just another thread of which plane to buy. :)

Was actually curious if anyone actually purchases a DA-40 for personal use or are they only used as trainers? If nobody owns them- why not? Is it the wider than normal wingspan that limits hangar selection? The idea that the wingspan makes them float like a Cessna( only heard this from a pilot co-worker so I can't verify it)? Or is there another reason?

Looking at previous threads on ownership and which plane to buy yada yada yada.... the DA-40 doesn't seem to get mentioned much. My wife has hinted more and more about us buying a plane but I believe our ideas of mission are still a bit out of alignment. We have two kids, one in college and one in high school. She thinks the kids will want to fly with us forever but I'm more of a realist and think the kids will gladly just let us go on our own most of the time.

This makes me think a Warrior, Archer, Cherokee 180, 172 or even 182 would suit us well. Since she wants more space and possibly more useful load I'm thinking her ideal flying machine would be a 182 at a minimum in the Cessna world, possibly even a 206/210 or a Piper Six and might get away with a Cherokee 235.

Yes I know there are others like the Grumman AA-5 series, Super Viking, a few Beechcraft, and even the cramped Mooney.

She also likes easy entry exit which is partly why I was just curious on the DA-40. I'm more interested in a good platform that can get 2-3 adults from point A to point B on the regular, IFR rated so I can use it for IFR training to help me justify the purchase with myself. I think she is considering/mentioning this is because we have to reserve the local planes a few weeks out and more often than not we cancel due to weather. If we had our own it would be easy to see that the weather is good and just go.
She did see this yeas AOPA prize plane and was like- ooh, that's pretty we could have fun with that. Um, Vans are great and an RV-10 would likely fit the bill but I haven't seen a built RV-10 I would be able to currently afford and being active duty with the potential to move still building just isn't a current option for me.
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I was looking at them when I was shopping. The crappy useful load kept the DA40 out.
 
Useful load of 870lbs for the IO360 versions is on par with other certified aircraft currently in production (C172, Archer, SR20). The DA40 NG useful load is over 900lbs with about half the fuel consumption of the AVGAS version.
 
Cervieres said:
Useful load of 870lbs for the IO360 versions is on par with other certified aircraft currently in production (C172, Archer, SR20). The DA40 NG useful load is over 900lbs with about half the fuel consumption of the AVGAS version.
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Maybe on par with newer ones. You can find older Archers out there with ULs well over 900. You can even find some early Warriors with STC'd ULs that are insanely high.

Diesel Diamonds are going to be a lot more expensive.

Tigers are still better at everything (except burning gas compared to a diesel).
 
N1120A said:
and without the same ridiculous nose up attitude.
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Funny you say this, going from the Cherokee 140 to the Cessna 172 I discovered the Cessna has what I consider an excessive nose up attitude when trimmed for takeoff and landing. In the Cherokee I set trim and gently pull back at rotation speed. I can then practically let go and she climbs at Vy or dang close. First time I took the 172 I had to push pretty excessively to keep my speed up for Vy. Now I just set the trim for a slight nose down (maybe 1/2 a turn) for takeoff and all is well. I know this can be a rigging issue with the Cessna I fly but I’d like to believe the mechs at the school I rent from has it rigged as per the maintenance manuals.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
There are fixed gear Cardinals. A and B models as well as 68s (many of which have had their engines upgraded). 69 actually has the highest useful load.
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Thanks, when we finally figure out my next job location we can seriously go from we should buy a plane to let’s get a plane. At least that’s my hope, it all depends where the canoe club wants me to go next. If overseas any plane ownership dreams will have to wait.

But when that day does come I do like the cardinal series of cessnas, I’ll just need to find one so I can get in and see what it’s like in the sky.
 
I’m on a Diamondshare with a 2012 Da40XLS and It’s a dream to fly. Last trip was cruising 144kts true at 9.6gph. Hard to beat that and quite an easy transition too. I just wish I did the deal sooner!
 
WDD said:
“Canoe Club”??
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What hindsinght2020 said. Just some slang to help me feel young and hip as I tell people who pays me regularly. The writing is on the wall that I'll know later this year where my next duty station can be. If stateside aircraft ownership can become a real discussion. If overseas, the discussion will likely not happen until we are headed back to the states. Seems like it would be a heck of a hassle to own a plane and then get stationed overseas. Although flying a small GA aircraft to another country would bring a whole new meaning to the term cross country, at least for me as I know some people have done it.
 
Thick outside the box.

You’re pilot
Navy has lots of planes
You think they keep track of all of them?
Be the first guy at your local airport to “own” his own greyhound.
 
WDD said:
Thick outside the box.

You’re pilot
Navy has lots of planes
You think they keep track of all of them?
Be the first guy at your local airport to “own” his own greyhound.
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Well that would go down as the most impressive re-allocation of assets ever accomplished in history!

When I was on the F18 demo team and we went to airshows I would always tell the thunderbirds maintainers they could jump in and start the jet if they could figure out how to get in. They had to hand carry ladders to the jets for their pilots, we have a ladder that drops from under the lex on the F18 and the thundebirds maintainers could never find it. The best part was there is a switch next to the canopy open/close switch that would drop it if you didn't want to use the standard handle. Even if they found the canopy open/close switch they never noticed the ladder button next to it. :)
 
I'm another happy DiamondShare member with a 2019 DA40NG, which I absolutely love flying. The turbocharged Austro AE300 burns jet A, 5-6 gph, G1000 Nxi, GFC700, synthetic vision, etc. It's really a totally different airplane than the XLS. Very responsive to the controls, nothing funny in turbulence. With the heavier engine the CG is pretty far forward, so if I have two heavier people in the front and no one in the rear I do have to add a little weight in the baggage compartment. They've added winglets and shortened the wingspan to 38 feet, so it's no longer an issue to get them in a standard T hangar. Useful load is comparable to the Mooney I used to fly. Like any airplane in this category, it's a 3 person plus luggage and fuel airplane. You can take four adults -- and the backseat is huge -- but you'll not do it with much baggage, and not with a lot of fuel. Ventilation is great (ours does not have the optional electric AC) but there are plenty of vents, and like the earlier models, the canopy can be open a few inches while on the ground. More importantly, my wife loves the plane. She was fed up with getting into the 70s-era planes I've previously flown, and seeing the worn interiors, cracked/missing trim, worn out seat cushions and inop lists. It's not an inexpensive airplane if you were to buy one brand new-- you could easily buy the Mooney, the Cardinal, the Tiger, and have plenty of money left over. But if cost is not an issue, or if you have access to a DiamondShare group, assuming you can fly 80-100 hours per year, I think it's a great option.
 
Sac Arrow said:
ground taxiing is a bit of a pain with the castering nosewheel. I flew an older model with the small rudder, which didn't really have enough authority on the ground.
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The large rudder is definitely an improvement. You can make wide turns with no brake at all by just putting the rudder to full deflection and goosing the power up to 1200 RPM or so until the nosewheel deflects.
 
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