Does an earlier OCD diagnosis and SSRI usage immediately mean SI?

[Spitfire123]

I’ve gotten conflicting info on this.

Does an old OCD diagnosis (and associated Prozac and Clomipramine Rx) automatically mean Special Issuance is required (applying for 3rd class)?

I have not taken any medication or sought additional treatment in ~3-4 years.

I was under the impression that Special Issuance was for cases such as those where an airman is still taking medication, or other scenarios such as when an airmen has a “disqualifying condition” (which, as far as I can tell, OCD is not one of those).

I’ve spoke to two different HIMS Ames about this and receieved seemingly conflicting opinions. Just looking for more info.

 

[TCABM]

@bbchien is the expert in SSRIs. Literally wrote the book on it.

 

[dbahn]

My guess is that the prior diagnosis is all it takes, even with a statement that you haven't taken meds in 3 or 4 years.

I'd like to be wrong on my guessing, but CAMI is pretty rigorous in their demand for proof that the condition isn't active and is being monitored.

 

[Spitfire123]

My guess is that the prior diagnosis is all it takes, even with a statement that you haven't taken meds in 3 or 4 years.

I'd like to be wrong on my guessing, but CAMI is pretty rigorous in their demand for proof that the condition isn't active and is being monitored.

Well, OCD isn’t listed as a “disqualifying” condition on the FAA’s website. I understand Mr. Chien was involved with the SI protocol so perhaps he will chime in.

 

[WingmanMed]

Prior SSRI use is not necessarily disqualifying. If you aren't taking it now you don't have to list it. However, personality disorders do have to be disclosed and depending on the level of impairment, it may or may not cause difficulty. If you are doing well, it is easy enough to show that with proper documentation.

 

[flyingron]

Well, OCD isn’t listed as a “disqualifying” condition on the FAA’s website. I understand Mr. Chien was involved with the SI protocol so perhaps he will chime in.

Falls under "personality disorders to manifest itself in overt acts."

It's an SI no way around it. If you were medicated for it, it is hard to argue that the diagnosis wasn't there.

 

[OregonDucks609]

Prior SSRI use is not necessarily disqualifying. If you aren't taking it now you don't have to list it. However, personality disorders do have to be disclosed and depending on the level of impairment, it may or may not cause difficulty. If you are doing well, it is easy enough to show that with proper documentation.

If they were taking an SSRI, they were diagnosed with a condition that must be disclosed on the initial 8500... Unfortunately, they absolutely do have to list. Source: dealing with this as we speak

 

[Spitfire123]

Falls under "personality disorders to manifest itself in overt acts."

It's an SI no way around it. If you were medicated for it, it is hard to argue that the diagnosis wasn't there.

OCD isn’t a personality disorder, that’s OCPD, isn’t it? What does “overt acts” imply?

I’ve spoken to different AMEs about this and it seems nobody really knows for certain whether OCD is an automatic SI versus normal issuance.

 

[flyingron]

OCD isn’t a personality disorder, that’s OCPD, isn’t it? What does “overt acts” imply?

I’ve spoken to different AMEs about this and it seems nobody really knows for certain whether OCD is an automatic SI versus normal issuance.

The FAA uses the DSM-IV definitions. There's no classification of OCPD, just OCD. Overt means out in the open. If you just think about it, then it's not overt, but if you have an observable behavior changes as a result: washing your hands, openly fretting about whether you left the water running, pulling hair, hoarding, etc... it's disqualifying.

 

[WingmanMed]

If they were taking an SSRI, they were diagnosed with a condition that must be disclosed on the initial 8500... Unfortunately, they absolutely do have to list. Source: dealing with this as we speak

The condition that required the SSRIs has to be disclosed for sure. And depending on what level of information is requested, subsequent disclosure of SSRI medication may come out. But if he isn't actively taking SSRI medication now, then he doesn't have to put it on his current MedXPress.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

The FAA uses the DSM-IV definitions. There's no classification of OCPD, just OCD. Overt means out in the open. If you just think about it, then it's not overt, but if you have an observable behavior changes as a result: washing your hands, openly fretting about whether you left the water running, pulling hair, hoarding, etc... it's disqualifying.

Obsessively checking that the fuel is on the right tank, that the gear is down, needles are crossed, etc. aren't all that bad.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

Obsessively checking that the fuel is on the right tank, that the gear is down, needles are crossed, etc. aren't all that bad.

They certainly can be if it is at the expense of forgetting to look outside for traffic, or forgetting to put fuel in the plane to begin with.

 

[dbahn]

The condition that required the SSRIs has to be disclosed for sure. And depending on what level of information is requested, subsequent disclosure of SSRI medication may come out. But if he isn't actively taking SSRI medication now, then he doesn't have to put it on his current MedXPress.

I think it's a little over optimistic to think that the FAA would NOT request all of the medical records regarding an OCD diagnosis and also request information about any medications that may have been prescribed.

Just because it isn't listed as a "disqualifying condition" doesn't mean the the FAA won't seek a lot of detailed information about it, as they do with many, many other conditions that aren't listed as disqualifying. My guess is that if you just list the visit for OCD and submit the application you will shortly afterwards get a letter saying that based on the information received you do not currently meet the requirements for issuance of a medical certificate, and they will request a list of documents needed to proceed. (If you don't respond to that letter in a timely manner, your medical certificate will be denied.)

 

[bbchien]

It’s an SI, or, take the bus……even if not medicated. I’m monitoring a few of those….part 121.."

 

[Lindberg]

The FAA uses the DSM-IV definitions. There's no classification of OCPD, just OCD.

Why do you say there's no classification for OCPD in DSM-IV? It seems to be in DSM-IV and DSM-5.

 

[Spitfire123]

The condition that required the SSRIs has to be disclosed for sure. And depending on what level of information is requested, subsequent disclosure of SSRI medication may come out. But if he isn't actively taking SSRI medication now, then he doesn't have to put it on his current MedXPress.

The diagnosis was disclosed. No medication was disclosed for the simple reason that I am not taking any.

I think it's a little over optimistic to think that the FAA would NOT request all of the medical records regarding an OCD diagnosis and also request information about any medications that may have been prescribed.

Just because it isn't listed as a "disqualifying condition" doesn't mean the the FAA won't seek a lot of detailed information about it, as they do with many, many other conditions that aren't listed as disqualifying. My guess is that if you just list the visit for OCD and submit the application you will shortly afterwards get a letter saying that based on the information received you do not currently meet the requirements for issuance of a medical certificate, and they will request a list of documents needed to proceed. (If you don't respond to that letter in a timely manner, your medical certificate will be denied.)

That’s basically what happened. Application was deferred at the initial physical exam and I eventually received a letter of requirements.

It’s an SI, or, take the bus……even if not medicated. I’m monitoring a few of those….part 121.."

Would you mind elaborating on why you think it’s an automatic SI? Again, I’ve gotten differing opinions from different AMEs (paid for consultation) so if there’s a specific line in the regulations or something concrete to point to I’d love to know it.

 

[Anonymous1]

Would you mind elaborating on why you think it’s an automatic SI? Again, I’ve gotten differing opinions from different AMEs (paid for consultation) so if there’s a specific line in the regulations or something concrete to point to I’d love to know it.

Because OCD, which I have an SI for (though I was never medicated), never goes away. It's a lifelong condition and even post-recovery, it requires occasional ERP booster sessions. The FAA can't just kick you loose with an unrestricted medical and tell you to have fun.