Documentation needed for ferry tank 337?

German guy

German guy

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Oliver
We'd like to fly from the US to Europe and back via the northern route. Sadly, our Mooney's range is just a couple hundred miles too short.

I inquired at multiple shops, who are specialized on the installation of ferry tanks, the cheapest offer however was $9,600 with pump, other hardware, documentation and the required FAA approval, however without the actual tank. They are also pretty far from where we live, the logistics of getting the plane there would therefore be pretty time consuming.
All they would do is to cut the piece of rubber fuel line in front the rear seats and install a t-connector, so that fuel can be pumped from the ferry tank into one of the main tanks.

My question is, does somebody have experience with the 337 approval process of such an installation? What documentation is needed for the FAA to approve it? Ideally, I would like to do this with our local mechanic, he however also doesn't have experience with such an installation and would therefore need some guidance.

Oliver
 
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German guy said:
What documentation is needed for the FAA to approve such an installation?
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Have your mechanic check with the local FSDO as it will require a field approval. It will require a Form 337 at a minimum in triplicate (one copy needs to be onboard when the tank is installed). The hardest issue with this is having existing aircraft hardpoints that will handle the fuel weight and withstand the load test calculations. Maybe check on a Mooney specific forum for ideas. For years we used a 55 gal drum in a wooden cradle tied to 6 seatbelt mount tabs to ferry small turbine helicopters. But I don't know how the current group of ASIs view those now.
 
Unfortunately I can't help, mine was all done for about the price quoted, by Air Mods in NJ. My friend who runs a ferry company, though, said it's the nicest installation she's ever seen. It's easily removable and replaceable for future trips. In the middle of the ocean, I'd rather have a setup that's done by an experienced, top notch company...!
 
Katamarino said:
Unfortunately I can't help, mine was all done for about the price quoted, by Air Mods in NJ. My friend who runs a ferry company, though, said it's the nicest installation she's ever seen. It's easily removable and replaceable for future trips. In the middle of the ocean, I'd rather have a setup that's done by an experienced, top notch company...!
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That's one of the companies I contacted. Maybe I'm missing something or am just ignorant, but I just don't see how the installation of a t-connector, a pump, some cables and a breaker can cost almost $10K. I figure the material costs would be between $1k and $1.5k, plus maybe 5 hours for the installation, total around $2k. Make it $3k, the gap is still almost $7k for "engineering" and "FAA approval".

I'll call the local FSDO and have a chat with them,


Flybuddy said:
Would this be enough?
http://www.monroyaero.com/lrupgad.pdf
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It would, if our tanks wouldn't have been converted to bladders, what makes them incompatible with the Monroy tanks.

KaiGywer said:
Having looked at doing that exact trip in a Mooney, you might be wrong about range. The longest leg is only 446nm from Iqaluit (YYFB) to Godthab (BGGH), which doesn't leave a lot of diversion options, but is doable.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=65.12948622184432,-40.539550772545624&chart=301&zoom=13&fpl=N0140 CYFB BGGH BGKK BIKF EKVG
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Our Mooney has 54 gal tanks. At a cruise speeds of 150 kts, we have a no-wind range of around 750 nm. If we pull the power back to 130 kts, we could probably make it close to 1000 nm. Landing at the Qikiqtarjuaq Airport (CYVM) and making a second stop on Iceland would even shorten the longest leg to 384 nm: https://skyvector.com/?ll=61.62728645848549,-52.751953117066314&chart=301&zoom=13&fpl=N0140 CYFB BGGH BGKK BIKF BIEG EKVG EGPC

While Qikiqtarjuaq doesn't have fuel, we could carry gas in collapsible jerry cans in the plane and use them to fill the tanks.

So, yes - it would certainly be possible to make the trip with our Mooney as it is. Having another 15 - 20 gal would however allow us to significantly shorten and simplify the route while still having a comfortable fuel reserve: https://skyvector.com/?ll=64.18852432280212,-51.67968749199867&chart=301&zoom=14&fpl=N0140 CYYR BGBW BIKF EGPC EGPC

Somebody offered me to borrow a custom made ferry tank that was made for his Mooney and which fits on the rear seats. If we could get the installation done with our A&P for under $5K, I think that it would be worth the expense.
 
German guy said:
Our Mooney has 54 gal tanks. At a cruise speeds of 150 kts, we have a no-wind range of around 750 nm. If we pull the power back to 130 kts, we could probably make it close to 1000 nm. Landing at the Qikiqtarjuaq Airport (CYVM) and making a second stop on Iceland would even shorten the longest leg to 384 nm: https://skyvector.com/?ll=61.62728645848549,-52.751953117066314&chart=301&zoom=13&fpl=N0140 CYFB BGGH BGKK BIKF BIEG EKVG EGPC

While Qikiqtarjuaq doesn't have fuel, we could carry gas in collapsible jerry cans in the plane and use them to fill the tanks.

So, yes - it would certainly be possible to make the trip with our Mooney as it is. Having another 15 - 20 gal would however allow us to significantly shorten and simplify the route while still having a comfortable fuel reserve: https://skyvector.com/?ll=64.18852432280212,-51.67968749199867&chart=301&zoom=14&fpl=N0140 CYYR BGBW BIKF EGPC EGPC

Somebody offered me to borrow a custom made ferry tank that was made for his Mooney and which fits on the rear seats. If we could get the installation done with our A&P for under $5K, I think that it would be worth the expense.
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Thanks for that suggestion, it's one airport I didn't know about and you're right. It makes it even shorter than what I had looked at.
 
German guy said:
the gap is still almost $7k for "engineering" and "FAA approval".
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FYI: in order to get the FAA approval you need approved data from one of 2 places: the FAA or a DER. The FAA side can be as quick as weeks if local (FSDO) or as long as months/years if need to use MIDO/ACO level. The DER side is days in most cases but at a cost up to $1000.00 per page of data.
 
With the Beech 18 that just left here in Lantana for Australia with ferry pilot-supply bladder tank, the local FSDO gave us so much grief with the ferry permit that the ferry pilot just flew it Las Vegas and had it permited there.
 
With either Monroy tanks or the extra bladders your Mooney has enough range to do the job with IFR reserves. The extra gas will cost as much as the very tanks, but will never have to come out.
 
Bell206 is right, getting documentation from an DER is the difficult (and expensive) part. But ferry tank installations are documented with the FAA database for each single aircraft. You can browse the database and try to find an airplane with a ferry tank already installed. Usually the FAA accepts using that data if it was same make&model. Before doing the north atlantic trip I searched nearly 2000 entries for my P28R and found ONE with documented ferry tank installation. So good luck! ;-) For Mooney, I think Laszlo, the Australian Turtle Pac-guy, also could get you in contact with owners willing to share data of their planes for a lower price.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: in order to get the FAA approval you need approved data from one of 2 places: the FAA or a DER. The FAA side can be as quick as weeks if local (FSDO) or as long as months/years if need to use MIDO/ACO level. The DER side is days in most cases but at a cost up to $1000.00 per page of data.
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With the Beech 18 recently that crossed the Pacific to Australia, it was the other way around. We tried to get the ferry tank approved here in Lantana Florida via the FSDO and they seriously were dragging their feet. The ferry pilot flew it to Las Vegas where they deal with the ACO, likely in LA, and it was taken care of very quickly, within days. I think he took it to a firm that routinely does ferry tanks and paid them to take care of the paperwork even though he provided and installed the tank himself. The moral, I guess, is deal with someone who's done this many times before and it's a smooth process.
 
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alfadog said:
FSDO and they seriously were dragging their feet
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Or if they don't do it at all. Ever since the BS/changes on the field approval/major change/STC issue went down 15 years ago or so, a lot of FSDOs simply quite doing approvals because of the new requirement. Things slowly moved back the other way for a spell but once that gen of ASIs retired the new group either doesn't have the knowledge or plays the waiting game hoping you go away. Thankfully there are still some ASIs who arn't scared to use their pen still but their numbers are dwindling just like IAs.
 
bbchien said:
I forgot the name of the shop but it’s at BGR and is well known.....
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^^^ this.

They did the ferry paperwork & tank on my Commander. There was also a well-known shop in the UK that handled the reverse trip.
 
Thank you for your responses.
I guess you're talking about Main Aero Services in Bangor. When I inquired at shops a while ago, I however skipped them because its such a major pain to get the plane there and to pick it up again.
I have yet to call our FSDO, I still haven't given up hope to get this done locally.
 
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