I know they put mail and freight on most passenger planes in addition to the passengers, but do the regional jets (CRJ 2/7/9 and ERJs) get mail and what not as well? Just curious.
Do they put freight on RJs?
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Mason
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Of course they do.
Not regularly. Most of the cargo bins were filled with checked luggage. Not much room for much else.
Tarheelpilot
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As you will notice this airplane is missing passengers. Since it had freight.
Reference the above post. You get two of the three. Gas, ass or trash.
The reason I asked was this: I was looking at flying down to Dallas to watch some college bball today and then fly back Sunday. We have a direct RJ flight from our airport to DFW. The afternoon flight today still has 13 seats open and the return flight on Sunday has 12. Yet the price hasn't budged. I would think they would get to the day of the flight and the prices would drop a bit. Wouldn't it be better to have some revenue rather than none? Airfare pricing has always befuddled me (and everyone else) and I just think it's odd, especially if they don't add freight to the weight to cover the empty seats.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Does Priceline still exist? I think that's what they did. The airlines don't seem to like to do any sort of pricing that encourages strategic consumer behavior that messes with their algorithms. Of course beyond some minimum, more weight does mean more fuel, so selling another ticket isn't 100% revenue.
When I flew BMI-ATL to pick up my plane, the tickets got progressively MORE expensive the closer the date got. I even tried using other devices on other IP addresses in case they were raising the price every time they saw me check. It nearly doubled from when I first hatched the plan to when I finally went. Of course I couldn't buy very far in advance, as every time I thought I was going to go down the mechanic would "need a couple more days", and then I had to wait on the weather.
Well in this case, instead of the airline getting my money, ESPN+ got my money.
Would've been a different story if your airplane was in Dallas....
Larry in TN
En-Route
That is not how it works.
They sell the discount fares early based on the yield management projections of what the bookings will be. If they did as you suggest, passengers would wait until the last minute to book to get the deals and the passengers who typically pay the higher prices would also get the less expensive fares. Your average yields would be much lower.
That's fine. They can fly with empty seats then.
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Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
In some strange mix of human buyer behavior and cost analysis, they make more money by not selling every seat. Except when they over book and people get stranded. Or charge more for the same round trip depending on where you start.
Either it is indeed that complicated and they are very smart at maximizing revenue, or they are over complicating it and no one will ever be able to tell if they are leaving money on the table.
Either it is indeed that complicated and they are very smart at maximizing revenue, or they are over complicating it and no one will ever be able to tell if they are leaving money on the table.
I'm sure some PhD in Economics has written a paper on it. I don't feel like going and finding one. But the model completely goes against all economic theory. I know it's more complicated than just selling tickets. But on the surface it is completely anti-supply and demand. It is what it is. Me and my TV will be friends for the next few days. At least the TV won't get me sick.
Brad Z
Final Approach
This.^
The airlines will drop fares on segments where they believe a lower fare will result in induced demand. While it sounds like the OP might be tempted to make this flight if the fare was cheap, the reality is that most passengers aren't inspired to fly to Dallas just for cheap fares. Likely, a long term last minute fare discount will only shift existing customers towards booking late. Further, as a regional flight to a large hub, those passengers are likely connecting to more profitable, longer legs. The airline doesn't need to sell out the regional in order to maximize profit.
mcmanigle
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My understanding is that they are counting on most (price-conscious) personal travel purchases to be made in advance, and for most last-minute bookings to be business trips that are going to happen whether the price is high or not. So even if it means leaving seats empty, they'll increase prices closer to departure. They don't really care if they're "losing" your last-minute personal business, because they're still winning on average with that strategy.
As a friend of mine liked to say whenever anyone would try to figure out why airline ticket prices were doing whatever they were doing that day, "the short answer is, they have so incredibly much more data than you." They are optimizing for annual revenue, which doesn't always translate to getting every possible sale.
As a friend of mine liked to say whenever anyone would try to figure out why airline ticket prices were doing whatever they were doing that day, "the short answer is, they have so incredibly much more data than you." They are optimizing for annual revenue, which doesn't always translate to getting every possible sale.
I dunno. I used to know one of the higher ups in the AA revenue department and he said even he didn't understand the models.
Brad Z
Final Approach
My guess is they're constantly tweaking and testing the models. The only airlines I've ever seen with static fare strategies were government operated airlines.I dunno. I used to know one of the higher ups in the AA revenue department and he said even he didn't understand the models.
keen9
Pre-takeoff checklist
Business travelers tend to book late, even the day of the flight. Business travelers tend to be less price sensitive. Flights booked at the last minute are more expensive, and much more profitable for the airline. This is not complicated.
Are we sure that's still true post-pandemic?
Sluggo63
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For me it definitely is. I tend to buy my business tickets last minute (some times day of) just due to schedule changes. And I’m not talking about RJ flights. I’m talking like I want to go from Narita (Tokyo) to Phoenix tomorrow. In Business Class.
Larry in TN
En-Route
Not as many empty seats as you think. At least, not on average.
I commute to/from work, so I'm always watching the loads on the flights that I intend to use. It's not unusual for a flight that looks really good, for a hitchhiker like me, three days before departure to depart full with me either in the cockpit jumpseat or on another flight.
The yield management software is very good and, even when some seats are empty, the overall revenue collected for the flight is more than what it would have been with full seats at a lower average price.
Another point is that you can't tell how many seats are sold based on the seat map. Not all passengers booked on the flight have seat assignments and not all seats that show as unavailable are assigned to a passenger.
That's a key point.
keen9
Pre-takeoff checklist
You think business's got better at planning ahead because there was a pandemic?
No, I think they got better at Zoom, Teams and Meets.
Brad Z
Final Approach
We've always had phones and videoconferencing. But sometimes too much is at stake and a last minute flight is the appropriate way to deal with a crisis. Crises aren't typically planned weeks in advance.
keen9
Pre-takeoff checklist
That has reduced air passenger traffic volume in general, but not the percent that are last minute trips the airlines love.
I dunno. Would like some facts and data please. I'll start with Forbes on leisure travel post-pandemic:
"Skyscanner’s research shows that over half of respondents (53%) have booked a trip to a destination they know nothing about, revealing spontaneous and flexible vacations as the new travel norm. The study also shows that 56% of travelers have arrived at an airport without a destination in mind and booked there and then to get away.
“The impact of the pandemic and ever-evolving travel restrictions has reignited the appetite for spontaneous travel with three fourths of U.S. respondents (75%) saying that the events of the last two-and-a-half years have made them want to be more spontaneous,” says Laura Lindsay, Skyscanner’s global travel expert."
So this one is a year old so I can't put too much stock in it. Overall travel levels are almost back to pre-pandemic levels, but corporate travel is not. That means your percentage of airfares is now higher post-pandemic on the leisure side, meaning your revenue model of relying on the gluttonous business traveler is not going to be as effective.
keen9
Pre-takeoff checklist
You are making my point for me. So there is actually MORE last minute travel.
But from the wrong price elasticity segment.
Pinecone
En-Route
Priceline and Kayak are still out there. But many times, the cheapest fare is booking directly with the airline.
I have seen where limited market flights, the price never seems to drop.
Ventucky Red
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We need to use our corporate travel site that is tied to Egencia. I got admonished once for taking a flight that was more expensive than what was recommended. Told the CFO that when I see him taking a redeye flight to save the company a few "scheckles" then I'll consider it. I do a lot of business travel, and how I use my budget is part of my annual review - bonus structure... I am going to keep an eye on it.
What I am finding lately is Monday, Thursday afternoons, and Friday mornings are some of the more expensive tickets.
mcmanigle
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That's the point: we're not sure, but the airlines are damn sure, and are pricing accordingly.
Common sense is a wonderful thing, but it can't compete with sales data on every ticket purchase over the last 15 years. And even that can't compete with data that covers every click on their website over the last 10 years.
midwestpa24
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I dunno. I used to know one of the higher ups in the AA revenue department and he said even he didn't understand the models.
There was a profile on American Airlines on CNBC or one of those channels many years ago, and part of what was discussed was ticketing and fares. It was discussed that likely no two people on any given aircraft paid the same amount to get on that airplane. The then CEO of AA said no one truly knows how the fare structures work. It is all done by algorithms that factor dozens of variables such as cost, seasonal and daily demand, seats available, time before trip, etc. Some of the low cost carriers use a simplified fare structure with fixed fees, but the CEO said AA tested that once and lost a ton of revenue.
FormerHangie
En-Route
At least we hope it doesn't take passengers. It may be a new no frills airline.