Do submarine helmsmen have to deal with Spacial D?

Never for me. Not even rigged for red or rigged for black at periscope depth and rocking and rolling.

The biggest concern was getting slapped in the back of the head by the DOOW (Diving Officer of the Watch) for being off depth or course.

The newer boats use senior enlisted (E7?) and I think they call them pilots where they have more like a joystick setup...but I'd be surprised if they get disorientation but never know. Just never moving fast enough.
 
But I have had it several times when diving. Usually when filming underwater and looking through a viewfinder. It happens if you let yourself get a little positive buoyant. I only have about 40 drysuit dives and it happened then too because if you get just slightly positive buoyant you slowly start floating up due to all the air in the suit expanding.

I have never had it in then plane but then again never acro. I am guessing the disorientation in the plane is worse than diving as the forces are more abrupt and stronger.
 
labbadabba said:
lol, yeah, I caught tried to edit, but alas, I can't figure out a way to edit the title...
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Nah, you had it right the first time. Submarine...closed spaces...and well...the Navy, so yeah, Spacial D
 
Sinistar said:
Never for me. Not even rigged for red or rigged for black at periscope depth and rocking and rolling.

The biggest concern was getting slapped in the back of the head by the DOOW (Diving Officer of the Watch) for being off depth or course.

The newer boats use senior enlisted (E7?) and I think they call them pilots where they have more like a joystick setup...but I'd be surprised if they get disorientation but never know. Just never moving fast enough.
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Agree, nope. Just not moving fast enough and you're never looking outside, so there is no "spatial".

Older boats, two crew members are driving and they each have different tasks - one to maintain pitch, the other for course and depth. Of course, that's a team work exercise. As noted, newer boats have a joystick, so it more like a motion simulated video game.
 
“Spacial D”, isn’t that a rapper?

My nephew was just here on leave a couple days ago. I could have asked him about it.
 
Sinistar said:
Never for me. Not even rigged for red or rigged for black at periscope depth and rocking and rolling.

The biggest concern was getting slapped in the back of the head by the DOOW (Diving Officer of the Watch) for being off depth or course.

The newer boats use senior enlisted (E7?) and I think they call them pilots where they have more like a joystick setup...but I'd be surprised if they get disorientation but never know. Just never moving fast enough.
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Only on POA can you ask a question like this and get an authoritative answer from a real-life Submarine pilot.

The diversity in this group is incredible.
 
Sinistar said:
Never for me. Not even rigged for red or rigged for black at periscope depth and rocking and rolling.

The biggest concern was getting slapped in the back of the head by the DOOW (Diving Officer of the Watch) for being off depth or course.

The newer boats use senior enlisted (E7?) and I think they call them pilots where they have more like a joystick setup...but I'd be surprised if they get disorientation but never know. Just never moving fast enough.
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Cool! I've always been fascinated by submarines and have watched Crimson Tide, Red October, Das Boot, and even Down Periscope(!) more times than I'd like to admit

Smarter Every Day had the privilege of joining these guys on an Icex.. highly recommend his channel and the video. It's not your usual "SMASH THE LIKE!" or Nikko Wings "I FLEW A PLANE AND ALMOST DIED" nonsense. I'd love for the chance to spend some time on a real, working sub some day

 
Tantalum said:
I'd love for the chance to spend some time on a real, working sub some day
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Likewise. I'm fascinated enough to have managed to tour two active duty Navy subs (the John Adams, now decommissioned, and a fast attack sub whose name I can't recall), plus the U505 in Chicago, Becuna in Philadelphia, and Nautilus in Groton. I ogled the Bowfin at Pearl Harbor, but didn't have enough time for the tour.

A lot of that was in support of a wreck diving habit and a particular affinity for subs. I've made a handful of dives on the U853 off of Block Island, two on the S5 off of New Jersey (the history of that sinking and the rescue of the crew is fascinating), one dive on the USS Bass, also off of Block Island, I booked 8 separate trips to the U869 off of NJ without ever managing to get to the wreck site (that sub also has a fascinating history, read Shadow Divers). I passed on an invitation to join an expedition to the Spikefish, which is only 30 or 40 feet deeper than the 869, but I concluded it's too deep for me, as is the U550 off of MA.

I still need to get to the U352 and U701 off of North Carolina, and the U1105 and the Blenny off of Maryland. I think that would complete the list of diveable subs on the east coast.
 
After I got out I interviewed at a few places out east. Almost every job would have had time riding the boats when new, refit, etc. Good pay to as many will pay 24/hrs per day (at least they did then). Get the right job and you could probably ride 3-9 days per year. We had like 150 extra riders on our sub during builders trials down to Florida and elsewhere nearby. A simple example would be a tech or engineer for a torpedo system. They test was schedule on day 3 and day 8 of a 9 day run. Their actual event was maybe 1-2hrs each time. The rest was eating, watching movies, meandering around, sleeping....and smoking LOL!
 
Tantalum said:
Cool! I've always been fascinated by submarines and have watched Crimson Tide, Red October, Das Boot, and even Down Periscope(!) more times than I'd like to admi
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Ohhh, I'm sorry. Das Boot is the only worthy one in there for submarine life, but we all love Down Periscope too. Crimson Tide was an insult, the set is good, but the characters are unrealistic. Clancy was a hack and frequently just ignored reality to tell a story. Example, in one scene a helicopter drops a Mk-46 torpedo and then the Admiral presses a button on the destroyer and the torpedo self destructs. Huh? How does that work?

I'll recommend Run Silent, Run Deep since you didn't mention it and the old TV shows "The Silent Service", which I think is available on YouTube. The Enemy Below is good too.
 
A1Topgun said:
Thinking of adding a ASES rating. But, looking at the cost of a ASES aircraft, I wonder if I will ever have a real need for the ASES rating after I get it. Not many FBOs will rent a ASES. One of the reasons I considered this is I won't need a flight review this year.
How many pilots out there got a ASES and then never really use it?
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bflynn said:
Ohhh, I'm sorry. Das Boot is the only worthy one in there for submarine life, but we all love Down Periscope too. Crimson Tide was an insult, the set is good, but the characters are unrealistic. Clancy was a hack and frequently just ignored reality to tell a story. Example, in one scene a helicopter drops a Mk-46 torpedo and then the Admiral presses a button on the destroyer and the torpedo self destructs. Huh? How does that work?

I'll recommend Run Silent, Run Deep since you didn't mention it and the old TV shows "The Silent Service", which I think is available on YouTube. The Enemy Below is good too.
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Now just hold on there! Next thing you'll be doing is disparaging documentaries like Top Gun! :D

My submarine experience is at two ends of the spectrum, the U-505 in Chicago and the USS Ohio when she was in Bangor. The Ohio size was mind boggling.
 
I agree. Ohio was tied up across from us in FL once and we were able to cross visit and do some quick tours. Amazing how much space there is.
 
bflynn said:
Ohhh, I'm sorry. Das Boot is the only worthy one in there for submarine life, but we all love Down Periscope too. Crimson Tide was an insult, the set is good, but the characters are unrealistic. Clancy was a hack and frequently just ignored reality to tell a story. Example, in one scene a helicopter drops a Mk-46 torpedo and then the Admiral presses a button on the destroyer and the torpedo self destructs. Huh? How does that work?

I'll recommend Run Silent, Run Deep since you didn't mention it and the old TV shows "The Silent Service", which I think is available on YouTube. The Enemy Below is good too.
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Heh. When my nephew was in town this weekend, I asked him, "So, how many submarine movies do you see and then go, 'Nahhh...'". He said, "All of them, except I do like 'Down Periscope'."
 
bflynn said:
Run Silent, Run Deep since you didn't mention it and the old TV shows "The Silent Service", which I think is available on YouTube. The Enemy Below is good too.
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Thanks! I'll check them out

Crimson Tide has a few memorable scenes and Gene Hackman and Denzel Washington did fantastic. But, as pilots critique flying movies, I have often wondered how close to reality sub movies were to the real thing. Das Boot certainly felt very "real" .. there wasn't a lot of theatrics either, just felt very raw. I didn't understand the torpedo trick either in Red October. Jane's had a computer sub simulator "688(i) Hunter Killer" I learned a lot about subs from that game

Pugs said:
USS Ohio when she was in Bangor. The Ohio size was mind boggling
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..and to think that the Soviets built something that (at least while submerged) had more than double the displacement

un.freaking.real
upload_2020-9-30_11-13-47.png
 
labbadabba said:
I kinda want to punch Nikko and I don't know why...
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My mood always shifts for the worse when one his videos comes across my YT recommendations.. I can't bring myself to watch this last one, although I'd be curious to see what he means by "I can't shed it"

upload_2020-9-30_11-19-20.png
 
Tantalum said:
Thanks! I'll check them out

Crimson Tide has a few memorable scenes and Gene Hackman and Denzel Washington did fantastic. But, as pilots critique flying movies, I have often wondered how close to reality sub movies were to the real thing. Das Boot certainly felt very "real" .. there wasn't a lot of theatrics either, just felt very raw. I didn't understand the torpedo trick either in Red October. Jane's had a computer sub simulator "688(i) Hunter Killer" I learned a lot about subs from that game


..and to think that the Soviets built something that (at least while submerged) had more than double the displacement

un.freaking.real
View attachment 90567
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Re: Typhoon. Pretty crazy on size. But whether it was an Akula, Victor 3 or Typhoon....we could still pick them up underwater at ranges that will make you call BS first :) On my first patrol when I heard the distance to submerged Soviet "quiet" boat I had to ask the sonar guys later if I heard it right. With modern DSP, newer transducer tech and other improvements I bet that range has increased even more!

Re: Crimson Tide.
Although the CO/XO (Hackman/Washington) scenes are memorable - being on a boomer and being on the same platform....there is absolutely no way it would play out the way portrayed in the movie. There are highly classified protocols in place for those situations and the Captain (at least both of the ones I had) would ever have been questioned. So hollywood cranked up the drama on that one.

+1 on Run Silent, Run Deep. That one is my favorite as well. I think there is another old one with John Glen that was good and one of those old ones even follows the only US feet on Japan when the sub skipper put guys aground and blew up a train LOL!

Re: Hunt For Red October is considerably better than Crimson Tide and Hunter Killer. But still hokey. The interesting thing about Hunt For Red October was when it came out (book) several of the Officers and Chiefs that were reading it on Patrol said certain pages would have been required to be stamped "SECRET" if controlled by the US Government. Funny he got away with it.
 
Sinistar said:
The interesting thing about Hunt For Red October was when it came out (book) several of the Officers and Chiefs that were reading it on Patrol said certain pages would have been required to be stamped "SECRET" if controlled by the US Government. Funny he got away with it.
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I'd read that when Red October was published, Clancy was questioned by one of the alphabet agencies to determine where he had gotten his classified material. It was determined that he hadn't, he was just really good at pulling together non-classified insider information.
 
Sinistar said:
Re: Typhoon. Pretty crazy on size. But whether it was an Akula, Victor 3 or Typhoon....we could still pick them up underwater at ranges that will make you call BS first :) On my first patrol when I heard the distance to submerged Soviet "quiet" boat I had to ask the sonar guys later if I heard it right. With modern DSP, newer transducer tech and other improvements I bet that range has increased even more!
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I did ask my nephew about detectable ranges. He told me as much as he was allowed to, and I was still stunned at how far out they can sense. Sound travels very well underwater.
 
Matthew said:
I did ask my nephew about detectable ranges. He told me as much as he was allowed to, and I was still stunned at how far out they can sense. Sound travels very well underwater.
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It does indeed. The speed of sound in water is about 7 times that in air. It's why humans can't identify the source of a sound underwater--no matter which way you are facing, the sound appears to reach both ears simultaneously. It's kinda comical when observed with a group of SCUBA divers; someone will bang a knife on their tank as a signal, and everyone else in the group starts looking around in random directions until they can see the source of the noise.
 
Sinistar said:
There are highly classified protocols in place for those situations and the Captain (at least both of the ones I had) would ever have been questioned. So hollywood cranked up the drama on that one.
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it feels like you said this wrong. I think you meant "The captain would have never question the protocols." There is no doubt in my mind that a partial message such as was received in the movie would have never been considered by anyone. Period.

The story was loosely based on what happened on Soviet boats during the Russian Missile Crisis. There were 3 or 4 Soviet submarines in the area of Cuba and each had one 15KT nuclear torpedo and a criteria to use it under. At least two captains (B-59 and B-130, both Foxtrot submarines) were frustrated enough that they are reported to have ordered their torpedos made ready to launch. Obviously neither launched, being vetoed by the other concurring officer(s) on board. In both cases, the captains were frustrated by being "held down" by US surface ships. Their battery was nearly dead and the AC could not keep up with the warmer waters, so they were forced to surface.
 
Do they arrange the buoyancy of submarines such that they can't get into the equivalent of a death spiral?
 
Usually, yes. Most of the time it has worked. :(
 
Sinistar said:
Re: Typhoon. Pretty crazy on size. But whether it was an Akula, Victor 3 or Typhoon....we could still pick them up underwater at ranges that will make you call BS first :) On my first patrol when I heard the distance to submerged Soviet "quiet" boat I had to ask the sonar guys later if I heard it right. With modern DSP, newer transducer tech and other improvements I bet that range has increased even more!
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Some other "modern" ones would make you laugh as well
 
Although I was a Navy Corpsman, I was never on a ship. It was only after I got out and went on a Dependent's Cruise with my former brother-in-law E-8 Radioman because my sister-in-law didn't want to go on yet another one. USS Portsmouth SSN-707, Los Angeles class fast attack nuclear submarine off the coast of San Diego. I got to drive her, fire a water slug, look through the periscope, and climb to the conning tower. Good times. It was about a month later that a sub came up under a Chinese (?) fishing trawler which I never understood because I was in the control room when we surfaced and it was strictly business, pin-drop professionalism with that crew. Lastly, as we motored back in, a 40' pleasure vessel didn't give right-of-way and we were forced to move for him!!!
 
Your being a Corpsman reminded me of something I thought was interesting.

On our boat and I believe other boats, at the time (early 80's) our Corpsman were usually Chief Petty Officers...with Vietnam experience. Both of ours were the lucky ones that were "donated" to the Marine Corps :) Both had more than one tour in Vietnam and it wasn't at a hospital, both were in the jungle. Our first one had about 4x as many medals as the skipper!

They tried having a doctor on board but it didn't seem to work out but he went on to be an astronaut and had at least one shuttle mission.

Our single chief corspman didnt have much to do and was not allowed to stand watch so he was mostly in the Goat locker.

The thinking was...you got 135 crew members and some serious **** goes down...do you want a newbie doctor or a fleet corspman...or a Vietnam vet who's seen it all from the crabs to guts and parts everywhere.

Our first one was so cool. I think our second one saw a bit more than he could handle after coming back home.
 
GaryM said:
It does indeed. The speed of sound in water is about 7 times that in air. It's why humans can't identify the source of a sound underwater--no matter which way you are facing, the sound appears to reach both ears simultaneously. It's kinda comical when observed with a group of SCUBA divers; someone will bang a knife on their tank as a signal, and everyone else in the group starts looking around in random directions until they can see the source of the noise.
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My diving instructor showed us this during a goggles off dive. He sat us in the sand with our eyes closed and then swam off to bang on a piece of pipe he was holding. He then had us swim towards the sound with our eyes closed. It just sounds like your in the middle of a bell.

He did this to prove that you can’t rely on sound in blackout conditions. He had learned to dive in the North Sea so he wanted us to know that other places don’t have 200’ visibility.

He also had us take off our gear completely, set it in front of us, spin ourself once around, and then get the gear back on all with our eyes closed. I’ve talked to friends who said they never had to do that. So I wonder if he added stuff to prepare us for worse case scenarios.
 
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