Do not buy Garmin GDL-50

Ed Haywood

Ed Haywood

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Big Ed
Great piece of kit. Loved it. Until a firmware update a few weeks ago bricked it.

Power up sequence starts, but aborts after a few seconds. I tried reset several times by holding the power button for 10 seconds, with no effect. I can connect it to Webupdater via USB, which recognizes the device and says it is up to date. I can connect my PC via USB and browse the file structure and logs. But I cannot get it into bluetooth mode to connect.

I called tech support at Garmin today. The guy checked if it was in warranty. I have had it more than one year, so the warranty has expired. He said my only option was to exchange it for $600. A new one costs $699.

I asked if I could send it in to be reflashed with correct software or factory reset. He said no, not an option. Nothing to be done. Buy a new one, or exchange, which might as well be buying a new one.

There is no reason this device cannot be restored, unless there is a hardware fault. They just decided it was not worth the cost to support. Guess they are too busy selling $20K flat panels these days.

Short sighted business approach, IMO. Small fish like me get hooked on the Garmin ecosystem and graduate to more expensive devices. I have since bought a GTX-335 and GTR-225, based in part on my heretofore-positive experience with the GDL and Garmin Pilot.

So now I need a device for ADS-B weather, traffic, and GPS that works with my iPad mini. AHRS not needed. Can anyone suggest a device produced by a company that stands by ALL their products, not just the expensive ones? Would prefer something compatible with Garmin Pilot (sigh) because my phone is Android. But screw them, maybe I'll take this opportunity to switch to Foreflight.

EDIT: looks like Sentry Mini would be the least expensive fix.
 
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schmookeeg said:
I don't think there are any non-Garmin ADS-B receivers that work with Garmin Pilot, but man I would love it if there were.
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Yup, I think you're right. Foreflight it is. Anything else Android compatible?
 
Avare, IFly, others... Stratux and several flavors of Stratux based commercial products will do what you want. And of course Stratus, if you're OK with paying 3x as much for a little less DIY approach. uAvionix Sentry Mini for about half the cost. In general, it seems like anything (other than Garmin) will talk to anything (other than Garmin). There's Garmin, then there's the rest of the world.

We went with "the rest of the world", it keeps our options open and saves a ton of money.
 
Funny. I was having connectivity issues with my Scout. A promised firmware fix never came, then the Scout was phased out, but you could trade in your Scout towards a Sentry. What a bargain... no thanks. So I got a (used) GDL39 as a hedge in case I moved away from ForeFlight (FWIW, the GDL39/ForeFlight combo has been pretty solid so far).

At the end of the day, they're all razors, designed to sell the blades of EFB subscriptions.
 
DaleB said:
We went with "the rest of the world", it keeps our options open and saves a ton of money.
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I usually favor that approach, which is why I go Microsoft/Android instead of Apple. But in this case there are mixed impulses. Garmin is device-limited but platform-agnostic, while ForeFlight is device-agnostic but platform-limited. Grrrr.

But I am determined to refuse to buy further into the Garmin ecosystem, even though it is probably the best fit for my situation. 700 bucks is too expensive a device for a support policy of "buy a new one."

Do Avare and iFly overlay on chart scans or on digital maps?
 
Like apple, I want to avoid them like the plague, but Garmin, like apple is simply better than the alternatives. I did switch to ForeFlight from GP when I started flying IFR as it is better for that, but GP has a better UI.

I have two Adsb in products and the gdl-50 always works where I had trouble with the other nearly every flight.
 
Salty said:
Like apple, I want to avoid them like the plague, but Garmin, like apple is simply better than the alternatives. I did switch to ForeFlight from GP when I started flying IFR as it is better for that, but GP has a better UI.

I have two Adsb in products and the gdl-50 always works where I had trouble with the other nearly every flight.
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Like I said, I was a big GP and GDL booster, but I can't forgive lack of product support. Maybe cutting off my nose to spite my face, but that's where I am at. Waiting for someone to tell me I am unreasonable. Moreso hoping someone will stumble across this thread with a hack. I am digging into the XML files on the device in mass storage mode right now trying to discover one.
 
Stewartb said:
Interesting that a bluetooth-transmitted update killed the bluetooth.
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The manual warns that failure to complete an update could require the unit to be returned for service. That coupled with a potentially unstable connection method like bluetooth from a mobile device is a recipe for problems. I'd be fine with it if "returned for service" was actually an option.
 
If you purchased the device with a credit card check to see if the card has extended warranty protection.
 
I have a Garmin 320A transponder. When looking at inexpensive ADSB out devices I considered the Garmin GDL 82. There are a number of reasons I'm glad I didn't go that way. I bought a uAvionix unit instead ...
 
Who did you buy it from? They may provide this type of support better. Is it still under warranty?
Maybe call a dealer instead of garmin, even if not the one you purchased it from. they may have more options. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/dealerlocator

this would steam my broccoli too. But sadly I’d probably still buy garmin.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I usually favor that approach, which is why I go Microsoft/Android instead of Apple. But in this case there are mixed impulses. Garmin is device-limited but platform-agnostic, while ForeFlight is device-agnostic but platform-limited. Grrrr.

But I am determined to refuse to buy further into the Garmin ecosystem, even though it is probably the best fit for my situation. 700 bucks is too expensive a device for a support policy of "buy a new one."

Do Avare and iFly overlay on chart scans or on digital maps?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you can run a free trial of iFly for a couple of weeks to try it out.
 
texasclouds said:
Can you find a reset button anywhere? Maybe call again and talk with someone else.
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The reset procedure in the manual is to hold the power for 10 seconds. I did that several dozen times. Tech support said that is all there is.
Most embedded computing devices have a soft reset, plus a hard reset that restores the device to factory config.
 
Ed Haywood said:
The reset procedure in the manual is to hold the power for 10 seconds. I did that several dozen times. Tech support said that is all there is.
Click to expand...

Well ... if it's totally unfixable you might take it to the range and put a .30.06 (pronounced "30 aught six") through it while shooting some high speed video. Put it on the Tube and at least have the satisfaction of sharing some relief of your frustration with the rest of us ... :rockon:
 
Daleandee said:
Well ... if it's totally unfixable you might take it to the range and put a .30.06 (pronounced "30 aught six") through it while shooting some high speed video. Put it on the Tube and at least have the satisfaction of sharing some relief of your frustration with the rest of us ... :rockon:
Click to expand...

LOL! In keeping with aviation theme, maybe I should toss it out of the plane without a chute. In a rural area of course.
 
I'd try to go up the chain at Garmin and see if you can find someone that will help. Try tweeting your complaint and tagging Garmin, I've had that with with AT&T before.
 
Ed Haywood said:
The reset procedure in the manual is to hold the power for 10 seconds. I did that several dozen times. Tech support said that is all there is.
Most embedded computing devices have a soft reset, plus a hard reset that restores the device to factory config.
Click to expand...

Maybe tech support doesn't know about it because the hard reset is hidden inside the unit. Have you opened it up to look?

(you don't need to worry about the warranty or breaking anything... it is, after all, already broken)
 
I had similar issues with the Garmin Audio Panel. AOG without it, no effective repair available, but they'd be glad to sell me another one and fedex it overnight.
 
I'd highly recommend simply escalating the issue at Garmin. Garmin's overall support is very good, even if you hit the occasional bad or difficult tech support rep. Ask for a supervisor, send an email to a higher level manager if necessary (not hard to figure out who the upper level folks are via Google, and not hard to figure out the email address format at Garmin). Something like a firmware update bricking a device is something that I suspect the right person at Garmin will take care of for you, you just need to get in touch with that person.
 
Bob Noel said:
Maybe tech support doesn't know about it because the hard reset is hidden inside the unit. Have you opened it up to look?

(you don't need to worry about the warranty or breaking anything... it is, after all, already broken)
Click to expand...

I have. It's not super user-serviceable in there, and I didn't see any reset firmware buttons, just a JTAG port. There might be some jumpers that would do a hard restore, but I wasn't looking for them last time I had the box open, so couldn't say. You'd think there would be something, just likely undocumented.

If you go this route OP, be very careful about the battery connector plug, it's fragile. Also be very gentle when you take the case halves apart, as there is a ribbon cable that has no real slack on it that you could strain. You'll need a (T5? I think) bit and you'll want some nice fine-point tweezers. Any of the ifixit-style toolkits will have what you need, it's mainstream tech hardware.

The device has two stacked and shielded PCBs inside. I didn't do the work to separate them. I wish now that I had taken photos of my disassembly. :)

SHNWZ6vq5JlqIQ8S1POc4P_YFVONr8nL7V-GzJidTnoZxlgHBGUzmjpGU0Ivg3wnKNEqJ-m0tL2b69-SRxcK46I_jgCQnCuCBNx-pqQDQL_9iio6wayx9NluQGw-3_fXOKrTq1IRrKQQjdxf2Jzn2eZGIQUTPzon-aB0sD4RDk7sSGdfvAA-xHGP1SZFEFQ5b6L447yAMKRJhSeFFEA-WhIQNerBSQvwKITwkfcLMjRl0rvUdRDKHeCj96bEPS48ZqrZ5kaeP0KMxYlEmpgnZu38sD7HzbLKv_stY80WLE-K-HS05jrE8ZKa9zEJweikM339DcqUNJZ2doCtyhDv0s1kjKglloL2AxIClXvdgQ3PQeypN_lrMFF745C6ZW1U6_7xaYE4LNfZygRaCbkUrV3jE9UsuJrK0yEuBnmnZ2fjRDPiLOSn5nBcmnuQXW4r6q4I9YLVgIecvOWnW2yPqmJHIK94qFXNTnwIMdxIU8nwj4_upAPFjNhHbeITSFQT51p9W54xVQOGoLjGAfnI84kw7eR7hrq1lEXFOUiumV6ke-4XkxXLFsavUGkuNYFBm387iy18Ln6v2fB0fTJT0gp7ahwMvZUu86tBkl5pIjJwwCCh2tZy1yjtm10JK-XG9zmJU5JkJQRYA_tdBIy9YhfeHLOOpCcU7pIUJY4gycgb12HB7TJsOIndbrffVe0DxIRsSq6x7vY74Tnkku3pSoJSog=w697-h928-no
 
When going the .30-06 route, make sure to put a headline on the YouTube machine to get Garmin's attention. Be sure to give commentary on your dealings have an email chain with a rep and then send them the link. I've had multiple Garmin devices that suddenly just not work. One was a gps suddenly not find satellites in the northern new mexico mountains 4 miles from camp. Another was a 700 dollar dog collar. One minute it says the dog is 650 yards away, the next "searching for gps". Support was awful in both instances.

I refuse to let a company pigeonhole me into using them in the future. Same goes for software going subscription/cloud based. Sorry QuickBooks and Autodesk, I'll run the 2012 and 2017 versions despite you cancelling features I never used. Not my fault you can't make the current version useful enough for me to buy.
 
Send Garmin customer service a link to this thread.
 
bradg33 said:
I'd highly recommend simply escalating the issue at Garmin. Garmin's overall support is very good, even if you hit the occasional bad or difficult tech support rep.
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Garmin support is not good. I've never had a good outcome with the Olathe crowd. The Salem bunch (ex-Apollo) was better but they're probably all gone or subsumed in the abhorrent corporate philosophy now.
 
Support for my devices has been nothing short of incredible. And for the average experimental guy? Installing a G3X requires some tech support. Garmin Pilot support has been equally impressive.

I find it interesting that the OP asserts an update caused the problem. Garmin should take interest in that, at least until they can disprove it.
 
I am somewhat surprised that Garmin wouldn't exchange your unit (even if it is out of warranty) simply to get your failed unit to autopsy. If they are still selling the unit, it could allow them to find a problem that would save them some warranty claims...

But, then again...
 
I'll admit I've been on the fence back & forth about investing in an Aera 660 for a while, just can't seem to do it, this thread doesn't help them.
 
NavAir said:
I am somewhat surprised that Garmin wouldn't exchange your unit (even if it is out of warranty) simply to get your failed unit to autopsy. If they are still selling the unit, it could allow them to find a problem that would save them some warranty claims...

But, then again...
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Bricking a piece of hardware like that during a firmware update is not terribly uncommon. It's also just plain lazy, sloppy practice to allow it to happen. Even I, who am not a "professional" hardware/firmware developer, managed to produce a device that was able to update firmware in the field with zero chance of a failure rendering it useless. My USB bootloader code was in a write-protected area of memory and immutable, so even if you unplugged the USB drive or killed power during the firmware update, the bootloader still worked. It's not rocket surgery, it just requires a realistic acceptance that things happen over which you have no control, especially when asking end users to do things like update device firmware.
bnt83 said:
I'll admit I've been on the fence back & forth about investing in an Aera 660 for a while, just can't seem to do it, this thread doesn't help them.
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Yeah... I couldn't talk myself into it either, as much as I liked the 660. I just wasn't willing to be married to everything Garmin for the rest of my life.

I've seen the G3X team really step up and be responsive supporting E/AB guys. The rest of the company... maybe not so much.
 
DaleB said:
It's not rocket surgery, it just requires a realistic acceptance that things happen over which you have no control, especially when asking end users to do things like update device firmware.
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Exactly. Especially when the recommended update process involves connecting via an unstable method (Bluetooth) to a battery-powered device (iPad) which in turn connects to the internet via another unstable method (Wi-Fi). You have to assume some non-trivial percentage of updates will get interrupted by issues with the iPad or one of the two OTA connections. To accept a bricked device as the consequence of that is really sloppy engineering.

To deliberately decide not to provide service center capability to remedy that consequence is a cynical and short sighted business practice. It's not like I am chasing them for service on a 10 year old obsolete device. This is a 2 year old device which is currently sold and aggressively marketed by Garmin. It is also the ONLY portable ADS-B compatible with Garmin Pilot software and the Aera series. Short sighted because student pilots and new plane owners get hooked on their portable devices and software, then graduate to their $20K glass panel touchscreens one day.

Don't get me wrong. Garmin Aviation has some fantastic products, and the integration between products is incredible. They have left the rest of the industry in the dust in the glass panel era. But customer support decisions like this prevent a good company from being a great company.

Looking hard at ForeFlight with Sentry Mini for my iPad mini, with Avare on my Android phone as backup. A bit bummed that I won't be able to run the same software on my phone and table, which is the reason I went with Garmin Pilot originally, but you can't have everything.
 
So I hate ANY user interface that relies on timed button presses, they're the worst intersection of cheap and lazy product development. This really roasts my cashews with flashlights, but anyway:

The GDL5x has three different timed button modes apparently, a 3-sec, 5-sec, and the big 10-sec reset.

This was in the manual, not sure if you've tried it:

NOTE: If having issues making a Bluetooth connection hold the power button down for 5 seconds. The blue Connext LED will begin blinking. Release the power button and then press the Power button again for 5 seconds. Power cycle the GDL 5X and retry making a Bluetooth connection. If the problem persists, consult the GDL 5X Installation Manual.
 
I once left my GDL go without a charge so long the batterie died.
It was non recoverable.
Luckily in warranty period and they exchanged it.
When I started in triathlons, ~10years ago, I started using Garmin.
Had a few service claims and all had been handled very well.

Now Apple on the other hand, I had a not so good experience with.

My point:
Escalate the issue with Garmin, if you really did everything right as you claim here, I would be shocked if they don't help you
The Garmin eco-system is superior, there is nothing that compares in the market, if you value that there is no other option
There is almost no used GDL5x for sale, I believe this is due to people loving the units once they buy them
 
schmookeeg said:
So I hate ANY user interface that relies on timed button presses, they're the worst intersection of cheap and lazy product development. This really roasts my cashews with flashlights, but anyway:

The GDL5x has three different timed button modes apparently, a 3-sec, 5-sec, and the big 10-sec reset.

This was in the manual, not sure if you've tried it:

NOTE: If having issues making a Bluetooth connection hold the power button down for 5 seconds. The blue Connext LED will begin blinking. Release the power button and then press the Power button again for 5 seconds. Power cycle the GDL 5X and retry making a Bluetooth connection. If the problem persists, consult the GDL 5X Installation Manual.
Click to expand...

Yep, tried all that, several dozen times. Blue light never turns on; it goes to mass storage mode first. I tried the webupdater via USB but was not able to accomplish anything other than connecting. Scoured the Installation manual, nothing of relevance in there.
 
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