Do Not Apply for Medical with 2 Alcohol Offenses

C

Cautionary Tale

Guest
... make sure you consult a HIMS AME PRIOR to submitting for medical or you're screwed. If you stop reading here, just take that away.

You can find a list here:
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/media/hims independent medical sponsors.pdf

I had extensively researched having two alcohol charges (15+ years ago) prior to going in for my medical- and for whatever reason it was not clear to me that this is a big "no no" which will basically set you back 1 year (per Dr. Chien.) I think I was confused because I had seen posts on here where people with two alcohol charges 10+ years ago had the issue resolved in 3 months.

My offenses occurred 18 and 20 years ago respectively and happened when I was in my early, early 20's. The first was a DUI charge that was dropped and the second a DUI charge on which I plead no contest. So I have one DUI on my record (and it was later expunged; thought expungment is irrelevant to the FAA.)

In both I blew under 0.15 (which is important because I believe over that and you have separate issues.) (Note: I understand the gravity the offenses. I was young, dumb, and would never put myself or others in that situation again.)

At the time of my medical I had about 2 hours of instruction time. I fully disclosed the information on my application. The AME told me 2 alcohol offenses, no matter how long ago, is automatic deferral. He told me the FAA would send me a letter requesting paperwork, and I need not worry as it would be resolved prior to solo (at which time you need a medical certificate.) I assumed we were looking at about 2 months and so I continued training.

I received a letter from the FAA one month later requesting two items: 1. a personal statement on my "relationship" with alcohol then, now, and planned in the future. They also requested the "circumstances" around the charges (no request for court records) 2. a copy of my last 10 years of driving records- which are 100% clean without so much as a speeding ticket. (I thought it would be resolved with this, but Dr. Chien would inform me this was the first of many requests coming.)

I had seen some posts on here that people with 2 DUI charges had resolved the issue in as little as three months, but I decided to contact Dr. Chien who is referenced all over the place here to double check.

I will not bore you with all the details- but Dr. Chien informed me of the following:
1. ANYONE with two alcohol charges who submits a medical application on their own without HIMS consult is at best looking at an 11 month deferral of receiving the medical. This is regardless of time since last offense. (I am unsure why some on P of A have claimed with two offenses they resolved the issue in a 3 months without doing so.)
2. I will have to, at a minimum, prove complete abstinence for minimum 4 months via random alcohol screenings, as well as have numerous consults with HIMS AME and finally a consult with a HIMS psychologist. Once the FAA receives this paperwork they will sit on it for another 3-4 months. Total time approximately 11 months.
3. With the deferred medical, I have now ruled myself out for Sport Pilot's License- which I could have received had without a medical but from which I was disqualified with my deferral. Had I just done the sports pilot I could have flown for the next year while I sorted out the medical process with a AME HIMS PRIOR to formal application. Now I'm basically grounded.

I have seen posts on here advising to "keep training/flying;" however, keep in mind I can't solo which I will be ready for in about 3 weeks. I have been advised I will basically have to pause training for the next year- which means I will lose the vast amount of what I have learned and have to start from scratch when/if I can pick it back up.

Learn from my mistakes in this process.

What I wish I would have done in this process:
1. Not applied for the medical
2. Gotten a sports pilot license and enjoyed flying for the next year
3. In parallel contacted a HIMS AME and begun to work towards resolving medical issues (prior to actually applying for medical.)
4. In one year, once all the testing/consulting work was complete, applied for medical with all paperwork in hand and HIMS AME support.

As a side note of caution- consult a professional on this stuff. DO NOT take the posts on POA from well intentioned members as truth. I saw multiple posts stating "I resolved in 2, 3, 4 months." Also- do not take what you AME tells you as true UNLESS that AME is also HIMS.

Good luck and I hope I have spared some of you from making the same mistake in the process.
 
Agree. Consultations for drugs, alcohol and the use medications to Rx depression is what we HIMS AME's do.
 
I’m sorry you got caught up in this corrupt process. Unfortunately the fake doctors that work at the faa don’t have to answer to anyone and will make you wait an extremely long time. They like to say it’s to make sure you’re healthy but it’s also punitive as well. Good luck.
 
Everyone should always keep in mind that policies and regulations change, some more quickly than others, so that someone else's past experience cannot automatically be deemed reliable in the present.
 
FWIW- not soloing doesn't mean you can't keep training. You can always press on and go back in meet the solo requirements once your medical issue is resolved. That said, it might take some time so it's ultimately up to you whether you want to continue.
 
As @Salty noted. Perhaps consider learning to fly in gliders to start. As long as you can self certify, which it seems like you can if abstinent for that long, you call solo and obtain your certificate. You could even go on to a commercial glider certificate in the next 11 months.

Flying gliders is an excellent way to learn how a set of wings and controls behaves in the air. It is actually my first recommendation to new pilots nowadays. A powered private certificate can be done later as an add-on putting most of the time and effort to good use.

And you might even learn to enjoy soaring for its own sake.
 
Seriously ..with this amount of pointless nonsense and bureaucratic masturbation 20 years after the original offense , I think lying to them is a morally superior option ...
 
Warmi said:
Seriously ..with this amount of pointless nonsense and bureaucratic masturbation 20 years after the original offense , I think lying to them is a morally superior option ...
Click to expand...

There really should be some sort of statute of limitations. The FAA aeromedical has to be one of the few places where the Federal government asks “have you ever in your life” ?

I do wonder about the legal challenges which have been mounted on this front. But the government’s argument would no doubt be that there is no right to fly.

It sounds like the cat is already out of the bag for the OP in any case. Aside from the clear serious risks of perjuring oneself on a Federal form where it is a felony offense to do so.
 
Last edited:
PeterNSteinmetz said:
There really should be some sort of statute of limitations. The FAA aeromedical has to be one of the few places where the Federal government asks “have you ever in your life” ?

I do wonder about the legal challenges which have been mounted on this front. But the government’s argument would no doubt be that there is no right to fly.

It sounds like the cat is already out of the bag for the OP in any case. Aside from the clear serious risks of perjuring oneself on a Federal form where it is a felony offense to do so.
Click to expand...
Well if it prevents just one drunk getting a medical it’s worth it...
 
Administrator Babbitt's unforgivable sin was that he took a G300 (FAA aircraft) to FL the next am (Sunday) and did not report to Sec'y LaHood until Monday.
Baaadddd Randy. He had blown 0.07 and as I hear it, it was his one and only. It could have worked out better for him had he been forthcoming.
 
If you explain your situation to your instructor, perhaps you can still do more training and maybe even progress on to some IFR training so that when this does get sorted out you are more than prepared for building your solo hours and have a great jump start on your IFR as well. It will definitely take a "modified" instruction plan and you may have to shop for an instructor willing to do it, but at least you won't be rusty and have to relearn things by the time you clear your medical. Once that happens, all you'll have to do is rack up the requisite solo time and you'll be all set for a checkride in no time. I guess it all depends on how much money you want to spend on dual instruction.
 
But, but, AOPA gave us BasicMed, complete with an anus exam!
 
AOPA didn't give us squat. The anus item comes directly from the existing FAA medical form (the side the doctors fill out). Most doctors just say "Yeah, he has an anus" and checks the box. Or perhaps they say "The applicant is an anus" but that's not a deferral issue.

And the three momths thing isn't deliberate misinformation, as pointed out, things have changed:

1. Non-revenue backlogs have gone astronomical in the last few years. The FAA "standard" was 8 weeks (which they never made, but it was only about 12 weeks for a long time). The FAA pulled back a lot of the ability for AMEs to call in and get discretionary approval on things for pilots who don't matter (i.e., those who aren't actively employed). It sucks, but it's unlikely to change at this point.

2. The FAA has gotten way more sensitive to psychiatric issues (which alcohol and substance abuse is viewed to be). Used to be a reasonable set of psych tests and a review from ANY board-certified psychologist was good enough. That has also changed.

Much of this is not at the FAA's discretion. Congress and higher up executive branch agencies react to events and issue edicts that even the saner elements in the FAA have to dance around.
 
Last edited:
flyingron said:
The anus item comes directly from the existing FAA medical form (the side the doctors fill out). Most doctors just say "Yeah, he has an anus" and checks the box.
Click to expand...

Ironically, the rectal exam is usually by-passed by the AME. (I typically refused mine.) The diagnosis of prostate cancer is a grounding condition until treatment meets FAA criteria. So typically in men over age sixty, well over 10% of the applicants will have undiagnosed prostate cancer but will continue to fly until it is discovered, which may be many years. One in six men will develop prostate cancer during their lifetime. (I'm one of them.)
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top