Do landings just click one day?

With students, a lot of times it’ll be one thing they struggle with. Not using the rudder, not making sure the nose is up landing (landing flat), etc.

Then one flight, they will gain the muscle memory and it is like it just “clicks.”
 
I have heard that landings are better if you wear the lightest, thin-est footwear practical. Always worked for me. Landings were a bit clumsy when I was wearing clod hoppers. Improved a little with my PF Flyers. Landings were never a deal for me. I learned in a J-3 Cub. Thats kind of cheating.
 
One thing I struggled a bit with, and have had students with the same thing, is that you keep flying the airplane until you are taxiing. There is a tendency to stop making corrections with aileron and rudder once you start to flare.

My instructor, and I have done the same to students, had me flare, add power and keep flying the airplane down the center of the runway at a altitude of about 10 feet. A could of times, and it clicked.
 
As a student pilot, I purchased a GoPro, I feel the ability to go back and evaluate the landing afterwards was helpful in figuring out what I was doing wrong. I mean it was exactly what my cfi was telling me, but still, actually being able to see it was helpful.

But then you probably shouldn't listen to me, the fillings in my teeth are still vibrating from a landing that went south a week ago.
 
Joe Williamson said:
So I have been practicing touch and go’s a lot lately to really get good at landings and for some reason it is just not clicking yet. My instructor said that it will just click one day and then they will come natural. Is that true? I have 17 landings so far and am going out again on Saturday to practice them some more.
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you should know that one day they’ll be perfect then your plane needs a part, you get tied up at work, or whatever, and your landings will need some adjustments again.

otoh some things help. I flew with a dude who is crazy on landing and my landings improved immeasurably because I saw firsthand how sloppy /imprecise messes everything up
 
Pinecone said:
...There is a tendency to stop making corrections with aileron and rudder once you start to flare....
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Freezing. I remember it well.

One technique which can help any pilot gain confidence in theirs and the plane's low speed maneuvering is Slow Flight. When you realize you and the plane can still fly at, for example, IAS 40 kts, you stop worrying about dropping below 60 kts on short final. Very light (solo), in the landing configuration (full flaps), engine redlined, my Warrior will just barely hold altitude at IAS 40 kts. You feel like you're laying on your back, but it works.
 
Very good tips here. I don't think an important tip was mentioned. Get your eyeballs out in front. Use peripheral vision to gauge height above touch down. That was something that I was taught learning to drive and later reinforced in the Cub. My CFI was a WW2 Stearman I.P. He gave me forward slips on the second flight and soloed me with 7.8 hrs. As I said: "Its cheating in a Cub." I had a Champ when I lived on the Maine seacoast. When the 12 foot high tide goes out, it leaves a wide, hard packed sand runway more than five miles long. I liked to practice three pointers one after another endlessly. Until the State banned it. I could flare and stay in the flare (with a touch of power) for miles. One day I was flying a Skyhawk and someone suggested that I keep a touch of power in till touchdown. Way better. Fast fwd a few years and I was a Comm, ME w/ Inst and an Army RW Aviator (Nat. Guard) and getting a unit check out in the BirdDog. The Army way is to flare, stall, then drop it in from two feet. Three is better. I complied when under observation, but greased it on when no one was looking.
The eyeballs way out front is important. Ever tried to hover a copter while looking down. Eyes need to be out front.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Yes but it's not like a switch flips they just gradually get better and you forget that you were ever struggling with them so you'll have an epiphany months after you quit worrying about them and you'll think to yourself oh crap I remember when this used to be a challenge and then you'll laugh at all the new pilots who suck
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And then bounce one.
 
In the beginning my instructor had me stand near the runway and watch landings as they happened. Seeing them up close from outside the plane really seemed to help cement the understanding of what needed to happen ...
 
Maxnr said:
Very good tips here. I don't think an important tip was mentioned. Get your eyeballs out in front. Use peripheral vision to gauge height above touch down.
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I’ve always wondered how much variance there is between different peoples peripheral vision and depth perception. Without good feed back there, I’d think it would be most difficult to land an aircraft consistently.
 
Mxfarm said:
I’ve always wondered how much variance there is between different peoples peripheral vision and depth perception. Without good feed back there, I’d think it would be most difficult to land an aircraft consistently.
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The peripheral vision check is a part of the standard optometry appointment. As far as I know, depth perception is measured with that big apparatus that they have you look through and tell them which image is clearest.
 
No, there is no eureka moment - just like with everything non trivial , you slowly gain more confidence and eventually transition into something approaching routine - albeit never quite fully routine and always with a bit of heightened attention ..
 
Depends, I think some slowly get it and others it happens in a moment. From that moment on you’ll still have ups n downs but I for one did have a single landing where it all came together and after that I was actually able to really work on em.

It took me 23 hrs to solo… I had a fear of the ground without consciously knowing it, I would round out insanely high over n over n over…. Then one day I flew it onto the ground and from that moment I was able to build….

if you question if you are cut out to fly - you can answer that with “are you going to give up?” If so, ya don’t have it, if you’ll keep at it no matter how long it takes- you’re cut out for it…
 
Huckster79 said:
Depends, I think some slowly get it and others it happens in a moment. From that moment on you’ll still have ups n downs but I for one did have a single landing where it all came together and after that I was actually able to really work on em.

It took me 23 hrs to solo… I had a fear of the ground without consciously knowing it, I would round out insanely high over n over n over…. Then one day I flew it onto the ground and from that moment I was able to build….

if you question if you are cut out to fly - you can answer that with “are you going to give up?” If so, ya don’t have it, if you’ll keep at it no matter how long it takes- you’re cut out for it…
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No I am far from giving up. I love it to much. I am currently at 11.2 hours and was really hoping to solo before the end of september with around 14 hours.
 
Huckster79 said:
Then one day I flew it onto the ground and from that moment I was able to build….
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I was gonna mention this ... I think the day I began to get it was when I went from rounding out too high to nearly flying the plane into the runway. I caught it before the instructor had to intervene but he admitted that he wasn't certain I was going to. Learning to fly is such an enjoyable thing ...
 
Maxnr said:
The peripheral vision check is a part of the standard optometry appointment. As far as I know, depth perception is measured with that big apparatus that they have you look through and tell them which image is clearest.
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I do know, there's a few folks I've ridden with ( in an auto ) who's depth perception is terrible, and who have current prescription glasses. I sure wouldn't want to be riding w/them in an aircraft while they were landing it.

That said finding a good optometrist isn't a simple task. My last set of glasses aren't even usable.
 
Nailed a short field landing today on the outbound leg, then floated 2500’ down a 7K’ runway at the home drome. At least I was off at the first available exit after touching down.

Goes to show what carrying an extra 5kts and no flaps will do for you.
 
Joe Williamson said:
No I am far from giving up. I love it to much. I am currently at 11.2 hours and was really hoping to solo before the end of september with around 14 hours.
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thats great! Then you “got it” no matter how many hours it takes! 14 or 24 or 44. People that give up don’t have what it takes and people that grind it out no matter what it takes will be fine pilots.


This goes for once you have your ticket too! If Shtuff goes sideways when flying one day- those that give up for sure won’t be pilots again- they’ll be daisy food…. Pilots that refuse to give up when the crap hits the fan are pretty much likely to fly again and be better for it.

Say an engine out and pilot gives up and they impact the earth with a tail wind and increased airspeed likely don’t make it. Same scenario and Pilot doesn’t give up, flies his or her plane and comes in with minimum controllable airspeed into the wind- walks away more often than not!
 
Mxfarm said:
I do know, there's a few folks I've ridden with ( in an auto ) who's depth perception is terrible, and who have current prescription glasses. I sure wouldn't want to be riding w/them in an aircraft while they were landing it.
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In every flight physical that I have experienced, the AME or military Flight Surgeon checked per. vision by making me stare at a point on the wall. He/she then stood at my 5 o'clock/ 7 o'clock and slowly moved his hand to the front. Asking me "How many fingers am I showing?"
Am I the only one who gets this sort of P.E.?
Several times I flew with an ATP/CFI/FAA Safety Inspector who had one glass eye. He was as good as me. He also owned a Decathalon.
 
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Maxnr said:
In every flight physical that I have experienced, the AME or military Flight Surgeon checked per. vision by making me stare at a point on the wall. He/she then stood at my 5 o'clock/ 7 o'clock and slowly moved his hand to the front. Asking me "How many fingers am I showing?"
Am I the only one who gets this sort of P.E.?
Several times I flew with an ATP/CFI/FAA Safety Inspector who had one glass eye. He was as good as me. He also owned a Decathalon.
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Don't disagree @ all. I've never had the "how many fingers" question - only 'tell me when you can see my finger....'

As far as the depth perception, no question it can be learned from other inputs. But thinking of all the landing questions POA gets from folks learning to land, not everyone has the same level of difficulty landing. Sure it could be the CFI, but one has to wonder if everyone gets the same visual cues for depth perception and peripheral vision. I've never tried to teach anyone to fly/land - but if I did and someone was having a lot of trouble, it's something I'd look @.
 
Maxnr said:
In every flight physical that I have experienced, the AME or military Flight Surgeon checked per. vision by making me stare at a point on the wall. He/she then stood at my 5 o'clock/ 7 o'clock and slowly moved his hand to the front. Asking me "How many fingers am I showing?"
Am I the only one who gets this sort of P.E.?
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I’ve never had that specific peripheral vision exam between FAA and USAF since I started getting flight physicals in 1991.
 
TCABM said:
I’ve never had that specific peripheral vision exam between FAA and USAF since I started getting flight physicals in 1991.
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I used to take my P.E.s (late 1960's) at a nearby NAS when I was flying with the Nat Guard. Once, the USN Flight Surg finished me off and we B.S.ed for a while. He trotted out the regs & standards for the various services & NASA. All have much the same vision standards. Per. vision the same for all. Army had the tightest max weight at 200. When I took my P.E. at an AFB, I noticed that many of the fighter pilots in line with me had a higher max gross than me. A lot wore specs. The Navy Flt Surg pointed out that US Army standards exceeded NASA astronaut's. Everybody got the Periph vision check. Period. I got it at every FAA P.E. (cl 1 or 2) till retiring.
 
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Maxnr said:
…Everybody got the Periph vision check. Period. I got it at every FAA P.E. (cl 2 or 3) till retiring.
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For clarity, you asked
Maxnr said:
In every flight physical that I have experienced, the AME or military Flight Surgeon checked per. vision by making me stare at a point on the wall. He/she then stood at my 5 o'clock/ 7 o'clock and slowly moved his hand to the front. Asking me "How many fingers am I showing?"
Am I the only one who gets this sort of P.E.?
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My answer referred to that specific peripheral vision exam technique. Never experienced it. Sounds like a variant of a confrontational peripheral vision test, of which I’ve had many. Just none with the doc standing at my 5 or 7 to perform it.
 
I just got my ppl a couple of days ago. At that time I had 64 hrs and 218 landings. I really enjoy just flying the pattern and doing landings. The biggest thing is to work on nailing the airspeed. I make sure that at the threshold im pitching for 80 (c172), midway through base im around 70 and over end of the runway im close to 62. Feet dancing and paying attention to pitch and power. Something i always had issues with was getting my eyes up over the runway. Look to the end of the runway in the roundout and flare- use peripheral vision. Its ok to play with your pitch and power to figure out what works best for you. Practice a lot of slow flight to get really comfortable with how the plane handles and behaves at the lower speeds and higher aoa. I still have landings that i think i broke the plane and one or two that i wonder if i actually landed! I had one yesterday that was so squirrely that i thought i was on ice. Recovered- regrouped and tried again. Next landing was butter. Keep practicing and the landings will be smoother and less stressful. But always remember- you can always go around!
 
Keep flying the airplane. That is what I was not doing as a student pilot. I’d get every setup on short final then just hold it. Crosswinds would drift me off centerline. My rudder use would be incorrect as well.

Keep flying the plane. Constant minute corrections all the way down to the ground.

One day it will click, but you still will need practice. Even 1000 landings later.
 
I'm pre-solo so take it for what it's worth. First, I get excited just being in the plane, and the adrenaline masks my fatigue, so I'll hit a peak in landing performance then decline. The trick is to recognize when you're tired by your performance, not how you feel.

I find that as I get tired, my comfortable round-out height gets higher (too high). What I try to do is get the sight picture just a little higher than it is when I'm on my takeoff roll.

Also, the more landings you have, the less behind the airplane you are. Once everything becomes close to automatic, and you're even with the plane, your landings will improve. Additionally, as you get more time in the round-out/flare the slower time will seem to move so you'll be able to keep up with the plane easier.

I've touted the runway expanding faster when you get to round-out height, but even though I've seen it happen in videos, I don't consciously see it, even when I look for it.
 
For my little piece of advice...
My landings were all over the place for a long time, the most simple thing that helped me was to maintain a constant sitting position every time I got in the plane.
I, like most others I think, learned at a flying school and still rent planes from them today. And with that comes the fact that everyone moves the seat around to their preference, so when you get in the plane you have to adjust it. And for a long time, I would adjust it to 'roughly' where I wanted it, and called it good. This lead to a slightly different feel of the plane every time I flew.
So now I know that the seat locks into the 4th stop in the runner, and when I'm sitting comfortably, I can 'barely' see the nose cowling through the windshield.
After that, landings became easier because the feel of the plane was identical every time.
 
Maxnr said:
I used to take my P.E.s (late 1960's) at a nearby NAS when I was flying with the Nat Guard. Once, the USN Flight Surg finished me off and we B.S.ed for a while. He trotted out the regs & standards for the various services & NASA. All have much the same vision standards. Per. vision the same for all. Army had the tightest max weight at 200. When I took my P.E. at an AFB, I noticed that many of the fighter pilots in line with me had a higher max gross than me. A lot wore specs. The Navy Flt Surg pointed out that US Army standards exceeded NASA astronaut's. Everybody got the Periph vision check. Period. I got it at every FAA P.E. (cl 1 or 2) till retiring.
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I’ve had the peripheral test on Army flight physicals but never on an FAA. Maybe I’m being shorted.
 
Like hovering, the landings don’t really click but they suddenly improve. Strange enough both occurred around 10 hrs for me. I was a late bloomer.
 
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