Do controllers get tired of Students?

E

evapilotaz

En-Route
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
2,623
Location
Gilbert AZ. VFR All Year Baby
Display Name
Display name:
Drone airspace abuser
I'm at an airport where there is a lot of training activities going on.
I hear mistakes all the time on the radio and sometimes I make them to. I'm not perfect on the radio all the time but improving as I build more hours. The Controllers must have tons of patience with Student Pilots. I notice some controllers do get irritated by the tone of their voices.

David
 
Anyone can be having a bad day, sometimes when the controller puts an inflection in his voice,it shows the student,it's important to get it right.
 
It must be inevitable.

There's that famous clip where VNY controller lays into a student pilot in the most unprofessional way. He doesn't give the guy a break at all and I would say it made it a safety hazard. If I'd been on the frequency I would have reported him.

But I have to say most controllers have a saintly patience and great. I don't know how they do it. At my home field there are a lot of Chinese students training, and you can barely decipher what they say half the time. Not their fault, just how it is. The controllers manage to still be courteous, patient and professional. I tip my hat in their general direction.
 
evapilotaz said:
Someday I would like to meet the controllers at my Home Base and shake their hand and tell them thanks for all their hard work.
Click to expand...

Do it tomorrow. It's a lot easier than you think.

You can probably ask for a tower tour on Ground or just walk up to the gate intercom.

I think most student pilots have that question. I asked it of my local tower controllers on my first tour (I've had several) and they responded that it was just part of the job.

And they know who the student pilots are without being told. They see the same tail numbers all the time.
 
Pay absolutely no attention to the controller's tone of voice. Controllers have a book of phraseology that they MUST follow, while pilots can use whatever phraseology they want to use...we have no such guidance. Suggestions, yes, requirements, no.

Just listen to what a controller says without reading anything into how it is said, and do not hesitate to ask for a repeat or say "I don't understand what you want me to do." That removes the handcuffs from the controller who can then use plain English without risking his/her job.

From their handbook:

"This order prescribes air traffic control procedures and phraseology for use by personnel providing air traffic control services. Controllers are required to be familiar with the provisions of this order that pertain to their operational responsibilities and to exercise their best judgment if they encounter situations not covered by it."

Bob Gardner
 
stratobee said:
But I have to say most controllers have a saintly patience and great. I don't know how they do it. At my home field there are a lot of Chinese students training, and you can barely decipher what they say half the time. Not their fault, just how it is. The controllers manage to still be courteous, patient and professional. I tip my hat in their general direction.
Click to expand...

Same situation exists here at DTO where myself and SixPappaCharlie reside. One controller I'll point out, Zach, is a total rock star with the patience of Job to put up with the Asian students and us regular folks.

And he will exhibit bouts of glorious humor sometimes. Ask 6PC about getting a text with annotated airport diagram from Zach when 6PC made a wrong turn on the taxiway in his airplane.
 
MAKG1 said:
Do it tomorrow. It's a lot easier than you think.

You can probably ask for a tower tour on Ground or just walk up to the gate intercom.

I think most student pilots have that question. I asked it of my local tower controllers on my first tour (I've had several) and they responded that it was just part of the job.

And they know who the student pilots are without being told. They see the same tail numbers all the time.
Click to expand...

I have never done a control tower tour. Its about time I did. :yes:
 
Oh, and when it's very evident that the controller is on top of his game or giving excellent service, I make sure to voice a compliment over the frequency so that it's on the tapes.

There have been many who obviously enjoy their job, even on the frustrating days. And that enjoyment is evident in their voice.
 
Off Topic:

I have a game on my Iphone called flight control. Its where you can pretend you are a controller directing landing traffic. Its a free cheesy program but its a fun time killer.

Download it from the app store.
 
You may not be able to get into any ATC facilities since the Chicago incident. We were scheduled to see MSP tower and center but were told we no longer could. We being the University of North Dakota Student Air Traffic Controllers Association...
 
Sometimes I'm amazed by how well controllers understand the thick accents of some foreign students. I'm sure it adds a layer of complexity to their job, but they seem to handle it pretty well.
 
Most controllers know without student pilots their careers are in jeopardy, so most are very accommodating of students. Anyone can have a bad day. Most of the time they're great.
 
stratobee said:
It must be inevitable.

There's that famous clip where VNY controller lays into a student pilot in the most unprofessional way. He doesn't give the guy a break at all and I would say it made it a safety hazard. If I'd been on the frequency I would have reported him.
Click to expand...
And occasionally pilots really lay into controllers. Let's all give a shout-out to Captain Happy... :rofl::


evapilotaz said:
Off Topic:

I have a game on my Iphone called flight control. Its where you can pretend you are a controller directing landing traffic. Its a free cheesy program but its a fun time killer.

Download it from the app store.
Click to expand...
A great free but not-so-cheesy one is ATC-Sim. (Not an App though :sad: ) Great way to waste a few hours...
 
evapilotaz said:
Someday I would like to meet the controllers at my Home Base and shake their hand and tell them thanks for all their hard work.
Click to expand...

Call them! They like to hear from people who use their services. Especially when no ass chewing is going on! :lol:
 
As a student pilot, I too was concerned that I was "bothering" the controller when I taxied out to join the conga line in the pattern. Seven of us doing crash and gos at a non-radar tower Class D.

That evening I read in the paper that the FAA was considering closing towers in the area, and it dawned on me: us crash-and-goers were the controller's ticket to job security. The more landings, no matter how ugly, the less likely the FAA was to close that tower. They want us there! Sure, they want us to be perfect but hey! We are just there to learn...

I strongly second the suggestion to visit the tower. I hope that option remains available. Bring them a box of donuts or a Pizza. Priority Handling! No, not officially, but you betcha!

-Skip
 
Last edited:
What do you guys think about controllers in training? They make mistakes too... we shake our heads and smile and move on ;-) although, i have to admit, i seem to make mistakes more often than they do!
 
igorek82 said:
What do you guys think about controllers in training? They make mistakes too... we shake our heads and smile and move on ;-) although, i have to admit, i seem to make mistakes more often than they do!
Click to expand...

I have been to KFRG maybe three times in my career. The tower there is known as a location where much controller training takes place. The last time i waited a full 40 minutes at the hold short line, waiting on landing traffic.

There were plenty of gaps in the traffic for a lowly GA departure, but no...

I am all for training environments where students can learn, but sitting there that long with the Hobbs ticking away was painful! I haven't been back.

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
I have been to KFRG maybe three times in my career. The tower there is known as a location where much controller training takes place. The last time i waited a full 40 minutes at the hold short line, waiting on landing traffic.

There were plenty of gaps in the traffic for a lowly GA departure, but no...

I am all for training environments where students can learn, but sitting there that long with the Hobbs ticking away was painful! I haven't been back.

-Skip
Click to expand...
Welcome to every sunny weekend at FRG.
 
Skip Miller said:
I am all for training environments where students can learn, but sitting there that long with the Hobbs ticking away was painful! I haven't been back.

-Skip
Click to expand...

I did this twice at KFRG and went to KCDW instead, not as busy and not as many students :wink2: but there are controllers "in training" which sometimes makes student pilot's life not as dull :eek:
 
Last edited:
evapilotaz said:
So I would have problems visiting my Small GA airport Class D tower?
Click to expand...

You have to call Mon-Friday during normal business hours to talk with the tower manager. She will schedule a time for you to visit. They don't do impromptu visits there.
 
When I was a student (not very long ago) I learned quickly that a quick and sincere "Thank you for your help today" when returning to the ramp seemed to be greatly appreciated.
Became even more evident when I changed locales for a quick "finish up" (long story, best not get me started) and the CFIs there were uniform in their assessment of the controllers as being hard to get along with - I persisted in my Thank Yous, and to everyone's amazement, the controllers were quickly treating me with a level of respect that the CFIs couldn't believe.

We are all in this safety and smooth traffic endeavor together. Mutual respect should be inherent.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
And occasionally pilots really lay into controllers. Let's all give a shout-out to Captain Happy... :rofl::
Click to expand...

Would have never happened if the ATC was as smooth as this guy.


When the student clearly has no clue what he is doing and freakin derails...I can see how even the most patient controller can get upset.

 
Last edited:
The only time I've heard them get annoyed is when the student has such a poor knowledge of English they cannot understand instructions or be understood.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
When the student clearly has no clue what he is doing and freakin derails...I can see how even the most patient controller can get upset.

Click to expand...

That's the one I was talking about. Wasn't at VNY as I seem to remember. But the controller is out of line here. It's stressful being on your first solo and mistakes will happen - he should know better than to pile on to that.
 
stratobee said:
That's the one I was talking about. Wasn't at VNY as I seem to remember. But the controller is out of line here. It's stressful being on your first solo and mistakes will happen - he should know better than to pile on to that.
Click to expand...

True, the poor kid was clueless, but the controller was NOT helping the situation. Still I can kinda see why he got ticked :rofl:
 
Controllers are people too. I talked to probably 20 of them today, and most were polite and professional. One seemed quite busy and rushed, to the point I had a hard time keeping up, and a couple were super helpful and friendly. I'm sure probably more than one of them was having a bad day, and a couple were just trudging though work, same as every other job. I always try to be friendly, say thanks if the frequency isn't jammed, and not make extra work for them. Same way I treat pretty much anyone who's doing something for me. I've worked enough customer service type jobs to know that simply being friendly to them makes their work day immeasurably better.

As for the students, I hear them on the radio all day, and I gotta hand it to the controllers, they do a good job. When it's just a new guy going "umm" and "Uhh" it just kinda makes me smile since that was me not long ago. It's the foreign accents that are tough.
 
Controllers are human, and so subject to all human frailties - including impatience.

But the obvious fact is that controllers have one basic mission in life: to assist pilots of all skill levels in getting from Point A to Point B safely.

IOW, they exist for our benefit - not the other way around. They need to make allowances for pilots who are just learning, or who are less than perfect in using their assistance.

Of course, for the most part it's a team effort and it works amazingly well.
 
No doubt controllers do a great job and sometimes they do get worked up but they are trying to keep everyone safe on the ground and air, so can't blame them if they have a bad temper here and there. Once a controller cleared me to land and I was on final at 300 feet, the controller then cleared another plane to take-off. I pointed out the mistake and was asked to fly parallel to the runway..anyway long story short..they make mistakes too. Just practice your comm at home or when driving. I used to write down what I was going to say before calling the grnd/tower...this will help you in the start. Even now when they give instructions about taxi..I write it down and it is easier to read back the instructions.
 
Last edited:
AggieMike88 said:
Same situation exists here at DTO where myself and SixPappaCharlie reside. One controller I'll point out, Zach, is a total rock star with the patience of Job to put up with the Asian students and us regular folks.

And he will exhibit bouts of glorious humor sometimes. Ask 6PC about getting a text with annotated airport diagram from Zach when 6PC made a wrong turn on the taxiway in his airplane.
Click to expand...

Yep, I would have quit that Job on day 1
Our controllers are incredibly patient.

However I have been up in the tower and watched them work when they are not on mic, they have their comic relief talking about your mistakes.

We had a stuck mic incident with the tower last week. This was awkward to hear. Chinese student calls, then his instructor gets on. Then the stuck tower mic:
 

Attachments

SixPapaCharlie said:
Yep, I would have quit that Job on day 1
Our controllers are incredibly patient.

However I have been up in the tower and watched them work when they are not on mic, they have their comic relief talking about your mistakes.

We had a stuck mic incident with the tower last week. This was awkward to hear. Chinese student calls, then his instructor gets on. Then the stuck tower mic:
Click to expand...

Talking about Foot in Mouth. :yes:
 
I switched airports in large part because of a really bad controller. He was really notorious locally, and I'd have trouble whenever I flew into that airport. He's gone now, so its not so bad. Then again, so am I.
 
stratobee said:
That's the one I was talking about. Wasn't at VNY as I seem to remember. But the controller is out of line here. It's stressful being on your first solo and mistakes will happen - he should know better than to pile on to that.
Click to expand...


You're kidding right? "Enter left base runway 13" is piling on? Did you look at the airspace? The local controller saw the student about to bust the C surface area. Maybe the taxi instructions, "turn right on A, A3, cross runway 5" was it.

In my experience, it doesn't matter. A student can be good or bad. I have seen certified pilots bumble around so much that I wonder sometimes who certified those "airmen."
 
wrbix said:
When I was a student (not very long ago) I learned quickly that a quick and sincere "Thank you for your help today" when returning to the ramp seemed to be greatly appreciated.
Became even more evident when I changed locales for a quick "finish up" (long story, best not get me started) and the CFIs there were uniform in their assessment of the controllers as being hard to get along with - I persisted in my Thank Yous, and to everyone's amazement, the controllers were quickly treating me with a level of respect that the CFIs couldn't believe.

We are all in this safety and smooth traffic endeavor together. Mutual respect should be inherent.
Click to expand...

That lesson extends well beyond the cockpit and aviation.
 
MarkZ said:
You're kidding right? "Enter left base runway 13" is piling on? Did you look at the airspace? The local controller saw the student about to bust the C surface area. Maybe the taxi instructions, "turn right on A, A3, cross runway 5" was it.

In my experience, it doesn't matter. A student can be good or bad. I have seen certified pilots bumble around so much that I wonder sometimes who certified those "airmen."
Click to expand...
If anyone is to blame it's the student's CFI. The student clearly wasn't ready.
 
jordane93 said:
If anyone is to blame it's the student's CFI. The student clearly wasn't ready.
Click to expand...


Agreed. The student was out of his element, and it seems that the CFI only trained the student to enter a pattern only one way (45 degree midfield entry). Because the CFI is never wrong (sarcasm), the student assumed Page Local made a mistake and followed what he was taught. The controller acted as any other controller would have.

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top