Distracted Driving

Maverick

Maverick

Line Up and Wait
Gone West
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Apr 2, 2005
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St. Clair Shores, MI
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Jean
I was on the I-696 freeway last week during the morning rush hour. The traffic at that time of the morning is usually pretty heavy and often very slow. I was in the left hand lane doing roughly 5 mph following other traffic while maintaining an appropriate distance behind the car in front of me. Then, all of a sudden, some jerk runs into the back of my car hard enough to through my head back against my head rest.

I pulled over on the left hand should next to the concrete barrier when I saw the giuy who hit me jump over into the middle lane and taking off. Hit and run situation. My guess is that this irresponsible idiot was texting while driving and just ran into me. I did not hit my brakes in a panic stop, in fact I wasn't on my brakes at all because the traffic wasn't stopped ahead of me, it was just going very slow.

I'll bet the guy took off because he couldn't afford a violation or accident on his record. Luckily for me I wasn't injured and the energy absorbing bumpers on my Ford Edge took the hit without any damage. Anyway I called the police and made out a police report and I took my car to my mechanic that same day to have them put it on the hoist just to make sure there was no hidden damage.

My boos and I where talking about this later at the office and he told me that he sees people texting on the cell phone every day on his way into work. They hold the phone up in the middle of their steering wheel while texting. I can't begin to tel you all of the really stupid things that I have seen people do while driving 80-90 miles per hour down the freeway.

I founded a chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving after I was nearly killed by a teenage drunk driver 25 years ago. Now we have all this technology that provides more distraction. I'm beginning to think cell phone should be factory programmed to stop working when they sense movement over 5 mph. As much as I hate to punish responsible people with things like that because of the irresponsible idiots but it seems the number of these idiots is getting larger every day.

I just realized that this could apply to the pet peeves thread too.

Jean
 
I while back I looked at NHTSA accident statistics covering the time when the availability of cellphones went from zero to almost everyone had cellphones.

During that time period the accident rate remained flat or decreased slightly.

In other words, although cellphones can be a distraction, this didn't translate into any increase in accident rates.
 
I never thought of cell phones being a problem. I always thought most people were responsible in the way they used them. But then I am a pilot and an amateur radio operator. As a pilot I was taught to prioritize. 1) Fly the airplane 2) Navigate 3) communicate. I've always thought the same thing should hold true when driving a car.

Maybe this is the time for autonomous vehicles so these idiots who can't keeps their priorities straight might not be such a hazard to the rest of us.

I understand that in Canada the law required cells phones to be hands free only. I wonder how many people disregard that law.

Jean
 
Bob Noel said:
I while back I looked at NHTSA accident statistics covering the time when the availability of cellphones went from zero to almost everyone had cellphones.

During that time period the accident rate remained flat or decreased slightly.

In other words, although cellphones can be a distraction, this didn't translate into any increase in accident rates.
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I'm curious as to how long ago that was. Was it prior to the texting craze we see today? there is a big difference between talking on the phone and texting. Obviouly you don't have to be looking at your phone while taking your eyes off the road while making a phone call. How about a hnads free texting app for the phones?

Jean
 
If the shut down when moving, then you couldn't use them while a passenger, or on a train, or on a bus, or call in the drunk driver you are following until the police pull him over, or...
 
EdFred said:
If the shut down when moving, then you couldn't use them while a passenger, or on a train, or on a bus, or call in the drunk driver you are following until the police pull him over, or...
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I agree that would be an over reaction. But how many times have we seen laws passed based on the lowest common denominator? Is that fair to responsible people? Hell no it isn't. Maybe a hands free only law that is enforced might be a good start. Maybe someone can develop an app that will convert voice to text for those people that can't stop texting just because they are driving. Maybe we should have meaningful driver training and ongoing checks like a BFR for pilots. I don't know but this is getting ridiculous.

I'm just glad he didn't hit me harder. When I was hit by the drunk driver years ago I was put into a comma for 7 days and my neck was broken. This hit i took could have done some real damage if it was just a little harder. It sure isn't fair to the people who are injured by these idiots.

As pilots we go through a lot of training, medical exams and semi annual flight checks. But any idiot can drive a car.

Jean
 
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Nah, I think making them automatically shut down everything but the phone function when they are moving is the only way to stop people from texting and using the internet while driving. Drivers distracted by smartphones is a huge problem as far as I am concerned.
 
I drive well over 1000 miles a week right now, and as a point of entertainment I look over into most cars that pass me (which is every car, as I'm doing the speed limit in the right lane). The VAST majority have phone in hand, either texting or reading something. I mean like 95%. And a good portion of those texting are doing so with both hands on the phone. It's no wonder that morning commutes in metro areas are a constant string of rear-end accidents.
 
If I were a tailgater, which I am not, then he would have pushed me into the car in front of me creating a multi car collision.

I remember one day driving from the Detroit metro are out to Lansing on I-96. On that stretch of road the speed limit is 70 mph but if you aren't driving 80 to 85 you are obstructing traffic. One day I saw a woman blow past me and she had a book on her steering wheel, this woman was reading a book while driving at roughly 90 miles per hour.
 
Every iPhone since at least the 5 lets you send and receive text messages without taking your eyes off the road.

Activate Siri(hold down home button or if you have it enabled say "hey, siri").
Say "read text messages".

To send, activate siri, say "tell (name in contacts) (message)" lets you review, then send.

All hands free.
 
Texting is the realm of the under 40 person it seems because if I have to text more than a simple 'yes' or 'no' I call. So do my over 40 counterparts.

Everyone else never answers their phone, and they start texting me a wall of words back and forth, back and forth, ... it's stupid and more time consuming than a call.
 
Maverick said:
I remember one day driving from the Detroit metro are out to Lansing on I-96. On that stretch of road the speed limit is 70 mph but if you aren't driving 80 to 85 you are obstructing traffic. One day I saw a woman blow past me and she had a book on her steering wheel, this woman was reading a book while driving at roughly 90 miles per hour.
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So what is your plan to deactivate that book while it is in motion? And what about the Big Mac that the driver next to me had in one hand with a Coke in the other, presumably steering with his knee? Or the makeup that I witness women drivers applying while driving on the interstate nearly everyday? Maybe the answer is to enforce the laws that are already on the books about distracted driving, not to create more solutions that punish the innocent as well as the guilty.
 
Lived in one of the first states to have a hands free law, well before connected cars and long before earpieces were popular(remember the corded ones.) Was worse because people would stop and park in the worst places, ie inside blind corners, and start talking. I don't know what the answer is but simple prohibition is not going to work. Beware the unintended consequences, distracted driving laws nail people for changing music. Driving just sucks, fell so far from the freedom thing it once was.
 
Maverick said:
I'm curious as to how long ago that was. Was it prior to the texting craze we see today? there is a big difference between talking on the phone and texting. Obviouly you don't have to be looking at your phone while taking your eyes off the road while making a phone call. How about a hnads free texting app for the phones?

Jean
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Yes, it was before texting...prior to 2004, iirc. I can't lay my hands on the data right now.

The current NHTSA webpages doesn't make it easy to find recent accident statistics... now it's mostly fatal accident statistics. I didn't want to confuse the issue by only considering fatal accidents because of improvements in treatments as well as safer vehicles (air bags, etc).
 
Wheels said:
So what is your plan to deactivate that book while it is in motion? And what about the Big Mac that the driver next to me had in one hand with a Coke in the other, presumably steering with his knee? Or the makeup that I witness women drivers applying while driving on the interstate nearly everyday? Maybe the answer is to enforce the laws that are already on the books about distracted driving, not to create more solutions that punish the innocent as well as the guilty.
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You make an excellent point. I guess this became a bit of a rant for me and maybe the best thing to do is to just move on and recognize that stupidity will always be around us. Thanks for the sanity check.

Jean
 
PaulS said:
Nah, I think making them automatically shut down everything but the phone function when they are moving is the only way to stop people from texting and using the internet while driving. Drivers distracted by smartphones is a huge problem as far as I am concerned.
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Problem with that is all the people who use the gps mapping function for driving directions require internet access to work
 
I bought a GOPro for the dash and realized it was a model that didn't loop. I'm getting a dashcam for my birthday. I only drive 60 miles round trip, but stupid driver tricks are on the increase. I'm thinking that the odds are I'll eventually need the evidence. Defensive driving has saved my bacon many, many times but the SDTs are becoming difficult to predict and guard agianst.
 
Maverick said:
I saw the giuy who hit me jump over into the middle lane and taking off.
I'll bet the guy took off because he couldn't afford a violation or accident on his record.


Jean
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Nah. Stolen car or the guy has a rap sheet and the fuzz wants to speak with him. Those Detroit dudes don't run for exercise. They get plenty of that fleeing from the cops. :yes:
 
Maverick said:
I understand that in Canada the law required cells phones to be hands free only. I wonder how many people disregard that law.
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It doesn't seem too effective. I saw a study three years ago which found it wasn't occupied hands which causes the distraction, it was occupied attention, and phone calls made using hands-free phones were just as big a problem.
 
PW_Plack said:
It doesn't seem too effective. I saw a study three years ago which found it wasn't occupied hands which causes the distraction, it was occupied attention, and phone calls made using hands-free phones were just as big a problem.
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There was also a study that showed talking to passengers in the car was just as/more distracting as talking on the phone. Why? Because people want to look at people they are talking to when in person, and they look over at them taking their eyes off the road. One thing that did counter that was you had a second/third/fourth set of eyes to possible look for possible problem situations.

But if you're driving a blind person or kids that don't know what to look for...
 
EdFred said:
There was also a study that showed talking to passengers in the car was just as/more distracting as talking on the phone. Why? Because people want to look at people they are talking to when in person, and they look over at them taking their eyes off the road. One thing that did counter that was you had a second/third/fourth set of eyes to possible look for possible problem situations.

But if you're driving a blind person or kids that don't know what to look for...
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You're right about that. I was recently driving behind someone else who had a passenger in the front seat. It was a male female couple. I have no idea what they were talking about, maybe having an argument. The guy was throwing his arms all over while he was talking so he was obviously steering with his knees. He also kept looking at his passenger while he was talking. New laws are certainly not the answer.

We all now that statistically aviation is a much safer form of travel than automobiles. It's funny when I run into non pilots who are very afraid to fly. That's when I tell them that the most dangerous part of taking a trip by air is the drive to and from the airport.

Jean
 
My understanding is that states that passed laws banning texting the accident rates went up as a result of people holding the phone lower so as not to be seen. That takes their eyes off the road even longer and more accidents.


Link
 
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Maverick said:
You're right about that. I was recently driving behind someone else who had a passenger in the front seat. It was a male female couple. I have no idea what they were talking about, maybe having an argument. The guy was throwing his arms all over while he was talking so he was obviously steering with his knees. He also kept looking at his passenger while he was talking. New laws are certainly not the answer.

We all now that statistically aviation is a much safer form of travel than automobiles. It's funny when I run into non pilots who are very afraid to fly. That's when I tell them that the most dangerous part of taking a trip by air is the drive to and from the airport.

Jean
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Or the parent that TURNS AROUND to talk to/yell at the kids in the back seat. Always a good idea to not even have peripheral vision in the direction of travel.
 
I think smart phones is far worse than the occasional make up applying person or eating. I witness cars swerving all around the road almost daily and it is always the phone. It is not only texting, you have work emails (are you responsible to reply on time or drive), you have Facebook, what's app, viber...etc
 
White Bird said:
I think smart phones is far worse than the occasional make up applying person or eating. I witness cars swerving all around the road almost daily and it is always the phone. It is not only texting, you have work emails (are you responsible to reply on time or drive), you have Facebook, what's app, viber...etc
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The way Michigan's no texting law was written, it's legal to write and respond to emails.
 
Maverick said:
Sometimes I think laws can be a stupid as the acts they are trying to control. :mad2:
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My dad was talking to one of the state reps/senators two days ago and that person was talking about "drone laws" they want to try and enact, but he had a lot of questions. My dad's response "have you talked to the state aeronautics board to get an idea of where to start?"

"No, we hadn't thought of that."


These are the people writing the laws.
 
EdFred said:
My dad was talking to one of the state reps/senators two days ago and that person was talking about "drone laws" they want to try and enact, but he had a lot of questions. My dad's response "have you talked to the state aeronautics board to get an idea of where to start?"

"No, we hadn't thought of that."


These are the people writing the laws.
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Well people have been flying RC airplanes and helicopters for years but they took a lot of skill to fly. The drones these days that are available to the general public are rather easy to fly as I understand. I know there are concerns about privacy because just about all of them are equipped with cameras or at the very least the mounting options are there. Then Amazon wants to start delivering product using drones. I don't know, the airspace could become crowded with these things.

I actually thought about buying one since I am not flying any more but I don't want to add to the problem.

I have known my own state representative for years now. I'll have to ask her what she knows about that.
 
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txflyer said:
Texting is the realm of the under 40 person it seems because if I have to text more than a simple 'yes' or 'no' I call. So do my over 40 counterparts.

Everyone else never answers their phone, and they start texting me a wall of words back and forth, back and forth, ... it's stupid and more time consuming than a call.
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Wow, almost everyone who texts me is over 40! I agree that, except for a simple message, calling is easier, but then there's the problem of not being able to receive the call when it comes. I prefer, when the message includes information, for it to come as a text or email. That way I have a record.
 
Maverick said:
I was on the I-696 freeway last week during the morning rush hour. The traffic at that time of the morning is usually pretty heavy and often very slow. I was in the left hand lane doing roughly 5 mph following other traffic while maintaining an appropriate distance behind the car in front of me. Then, all of a sudden, some jerk runs into the back of my car hard enough to through my head back against my head rest.

I pulled over on the left hand should next to the concrete barrier when I saw the giuy who hit me jump over into the middle lane and taking off. Hit and run situation. My guess is that this irresponsible idiot was texting while driving and just ran into me. I did not hit my brakes in a panic stop, in fact I wasn't on my brakes at all because the traffic wasn't stopped ahead of me, it was just going very slow.

I'll bet the guy took off because he couldn't afford a violation or accident on his record. Luckily for me I wasn't injured and the energy absorbing bumpers on my Ford Edge took the hit without any damage. Anyway I called the police and made out a police report and I took my car to my mechanic that same day to have them put it on the hoist just to make sure there was no hidden damage.

My boos and I where talking about this later at the office and he told me that he sees people texting on the cell phone every day on his way into work. They hold the phone up in the middle of their steering wheel while texting. I can't begin to tel you all of the really stupid things that I have seen people do while driving 80-90 miles per hour down the freeway.

I founded a chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving after I was nearly killed by a teenage drunk driver 25 years ago. Now we have all this technology that provides more distraction. I'm beginning to think cell phone should be factory programmed to stop working when they sense movement over 5 mph. As much as I hate to punish responsible people with things like that because of the irresponsible idiots but it seems the number of these idiots is getting larger every day.

I just realized that this could apply to the pet peeves thread too.

Jean
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I understand your frustration and anger. I think that in both of the incidences you cite, the both drivers should have been dealt with severely, and harshly.

But where I differ with you is that in my mind, they should be penalized for the result of their actions, but not necessarily the arbitrary metric that got them there. Your drunk driver was driving reckless. He should be punished for driving reckless. The fact he was drunk got him there yes, but the structure of the law should instill personal responsibility, not dictate it. There are some people that can have one drink and be a hazard on the road, and there are other people that can blow above the limit and still be safe. Heck, there are people that don't drink and shouldn't be on the road.

Same with texting. Like you, as a pilot, we do all of these tasks simultaneously, and the mere act of hitting a button or two on a phone in itself isn't necessarily unsafe, while composing a complex text that requires you to direct your focus on the road is obviously terribly unsafe.

Sorry to hear about both of your experiences and glad you came out okay.
 
Hi Skip, I was trying to quote your message but I couldn't for some reason. Anyway I agree with you that what I had proposed is an over reaction.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I understand your frustration and anger. I think that in both of the incidences you cite, the both drivers should have been dealt with severely, and harshly.

But where I differ with you is that in my mind, they should be penalized for the result of their actions, but not necessarily the arbitrary metric that got them there. Your drunk driver was driving reckless. He should be punished for driving reckless. The fact he was drunk got him there yes, but the structure of the law should instill personal responsibility, not dictate it. There are some people that can have one drink and be a hazard on the road, and there are other people that can blow above the limit and still be safe. Heck, there are people that don't drink and shouldn't be on the road.

Same with texting. Like you, as a pilot, we do all of these tasks simultaneously, and the mere act of hitting a button or two on a phone in itself isn't necessarily unsafe, while composing a complex text that requires you to direct your focus on the road is obviously terribly unsafe.

Sorry to hear about both of your experiences and glad you came out okay.
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The incident with the drunk driver was 25 years ago and the laws have changed since then. The drunk driver was a teenager who had been out partying all night and was not injured in the crash. The penalty was nothing more than a couple hundred dollars in fines and a 60 restriction on the drivers license. I spent months in the hospital and had to have surgery on my spine. I had a closed head injury and a spinal injury, either of which could have been far worse but for some reason I was very fortunate to recover the way I did. It took 4 years but I was finally re-certified to fly.
 
Maverick said:
The incident with the drunk driver was 25 years ago and the laws have changed since then. The drunk driver was a teenager who had been out partying all night and was not injured in the crash. The penalty was nothing more than a couple hundred dollars in fines and a 60 restriction on the drivers license. I spent months in the hospital and had to have surgery on my spine. I had a closed head injury and a spinal injury, either of which could have been far worse but for some reason I was very fortunate to recover the way I did. It took 4 years but I was finally re-certified to fly.
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I would agree that the penalty was way insufficient.
 
The only logical choice is going to be a mandate that phones are restricted while in motion in some way. It is a travesty the way people have no concern for the others around them when operating a motor vehicle. There is no reason that they could be set to make emergency only calls while in motion to report offenders or the like as well as limiting functions such as GPS. Look how far we have come with drunk/intoxicated driving and their effects on offenders, the same should apply to those who blatantly disregard the safety of others because they cannot put the phone down.
As a teacher i am constantly in talks with industry concerning future graduates and the largest topic by far is the so called "soft skills". These are basics like showing up on time, showing up everyday how to shake a hand, looking in someones eyes when you talk etc. Most companies I talk to have in place or will shortly a no tolerance policy towards phones and rightly so. I have a policy that if a students phone goes off in class they have to get before the class and sing us a song of our choosing. That seems to work for now.
 
Again, passengers, bus riders, train riders, hell even walking...
 
Unfortunately, texting while driving is just a symptom of a society whose members have become so self-absorbed that they honestly don't grasp that life will go on without them if they're off the information grid for an hour or so.

Rich
 
Acrodustertoo said:
The only logical choice is going to be a mandate that phones are restricted while in motion in some way. ....
Click to expand...

That's the only logical choice you can come up with?

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
EdFred said:
Again, passengers, bus riders, train riders, hell even walking...
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The speed could be set at over 10 mph, which would take care of walking, but busses, trains, passengers texting would all be a casualty of morons texting while driving. And yes, if you text while you drive, you are a moron.
 
RJM62 said:
Unfortunately, texting while driving is just a symptom of a society whose members have become so self-absorbed that they honestly don't grasp that life will go on without them if they're off the information grid for an hour or so.

Rich
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How about in a resturant, in the supermarket, at a stop light.....everywhere, people staring at their phone in a catatonic like trance. Or how about western NY state two years ago, young girl in a van with two children in rear seat, on a cell phone, comes around a curve, crosses double line, hits a retired business man on his way home from Sunday church to fly his Stearman, ( he had several nice vintage aircraft at his home strip, ) killed herself, killed him and left two children without a mother. NY state has strict laws about cell phones and driving. I'd make them tougher if the person causes an accident. Jail for sure in a case like this if they live. Another no brainier. It's also why , not too many years ago the airlines attempted to totally stop extemporaneous b.s. In the cockpit during t.o. Landings.
 
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