Discouraged last lesson

So I thought I'd give you some thoughts from my flight this weekend that follow up to my thoughts from Friday.

First, I had some of the very things happen that we talked about. Binghamton approach advised me that their ILS was OOS. Both KBGM and KAVP have a RWY 10/28. It was closed at KAVP, so I mistakenly requested the other runway at KBGM. That was a mistake in my preflight planning because at KBGM, 10/28 was the only open runway. So in flight, I was given a different approach than what I had planned. I had to pull up the new plate, load it into the GPS, and rebrief the approach. However, I did use that "dead space" to get back ahead of the airplane and it went fairly smoothly. The rest went as planned.

As mentioned before, it is INCREDIBLY helpful to have the plate overlaid on the map in ForeFlight. That also helps when you're doing your readback because you can see that you are [expecting, cleared for] the [RNAV, ILS, VOR] Approach on RWY [XX]. It's right there on the plate in front of you, plus you have your missed instructions, and respective holds all visualized right in front of you.

Second, I worked really hard this week on flying the numbers. For me, a stabilized descent at 500FPM and 90KIAS is about 1800RPM in a C172 180hp. If you're flying a standard trainer single (C172, PA28, etc.) try those numbers as (according to my CFII) many of these aircraft have at least similar numbers. It should at least give you a starting point and you can adjust accordingly.

I'm glad you were able to get your plane home. Take some time and just relax. ENJOY flying. You didn't start this journey (even the journey of your instrument rating) because you liked stress. You did it because flying is AWESOME! Don't let this next step in your skill development take that enjoyment away from you. Yes, work hard at it to make sure that you and yours are safer up there, but don't let aviation become a drudge. You're a pilot, and that's something not a lot of people can say! Keep being awesome and have fun doing what you love!
 
Hello, I'm late to this thread but there are some excellent workshops that talk about doing exactly this (profiling your numbers) in the sim over at Pilot Workshops. I HIGHLY recommend them since I make zillions of dollars everytime you watch one (i.e. I am not affiliated in any way outside of being a fanboy).

A simulator can be a very good way to cheaply profile your real plane (or at least get a feel of what your numbers should look like):

https://pilotworkshop.com/videos/ifr-foundation-video/
 
Good point on using a Sim. Using a Red Bird sim with a CFII can also count to your needed hood/actual/sim time needed.

On the other hand, my home sim (PC running X Plane with tablet running Reality XP GTN 650 simulator) has been invaluable. I thought it would be somewhat helpful, but it is much more than I thought. Useful in teaching myself a range of tasks: getting much better at using the GTN650, scanning the six pack, bracketing, setting up things before take off, etc.
 
4RNB said:
I am a 130-140 hour pilot, and have met all the minimum required times to take my practical as of my last lesson.
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This certainly sounds like you flew around for a month or two after your ppl and then started IFR.

lots of good advice in this thread-only thing I’ll add is is have fun
 
For me, flying IFR is fun, a real blast. Can't wait to be able to do it "for real on my own". The up hill to get good enough to be safe, and BTW pass the check ride is a slog. I'm working on turning on an ARC (DPE requires it), smoothing out the approaches, etc. But when I think of where I was when I started vs what I can do now, I'm truly shocked.

For those that thoroughly enjoyed the training - fantastic! Good for you - but for the rest of use mortals, it's nothing to be concerned about if we find it hard and at times discouraging. Just keep the faith, carry on.
 
I got my instrument rating through a 10 day course. The first few days were fun, getting used to flying under the hood and learning the ins and outs of flying an approach, doing holds etc. Days 3-5 I started to feel pretty confident. Since I still needed cross country hours, we were doing cross country flights with a more realistic time frame to stay ahead of the plane and be prepared for the next phase of flight. I felt I was progressing along pretty well. Then my instructor really ramped things up, doing approach after approach and the workload became overwhelming. It didn't help that during this time we had days of high winds and a lot of turbulence so at times it became a chore just to maintain heading and altitude, Day 7 I was so discouraged I told the instructor I had to take a few days off because my frustration was completely blocking my ability to learn. After a few days break I came back and things just started coming together and I passed my checkride on day 10.

Things will come together and become second nature. Like others have said, learn the numbers to fly for your plane, then setting up for any phase of flight takes a few seconds, freeing you up to do everything else you need to do. I would agree with maybe getting away from training for a short time, but not too long. You need to keep training often if you want to make progress.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Unless you're weird like me. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I'll see myself out...
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I'll join the party on this one, too. The IR was challenging, for sure, but a very satisfying challenge to conquer. If you are doing this right, you develop confidence, judgement, and and practical knowledge during training.

To be honest, a concentrated approach-flying session is very stressful, rapid-fire, and very unrealistic compared to how you actually use the IR. During my training, we made it a point to do many trips with 3-4 approaches spaced out at various destinations over a 2 hour period. This was a much more realistic training environment than doing 6 approaches in an hour to an hour and a half, and involved more realistic ATC interactions and vectoring. We tried to make some of those trips involve a lunch or snack stop as well. On top of that, we also tried to fly in actual IMC at every opportunity, both to gain confidence, but also to exercise some weather decision-making. Flying a real missed approach in IMC is a whole lot different than a practice missed.

I know too many freshly minted IR pilots are are afraid to use their rating. If you do this right, you should be confident and ready to use the IR right out of the box. I did a maximum range business trip with my rating about a week after getting my ticket. And unexpectedly wound up flying an unexpected ILS in safe but deteriorating weather at the destination. My training prepared me to do that without freaking out, and I thank my instructor for structuring my training in a way that developed the necessary confidence and practical skills.
 
I’m late to the party, but I struggled a bit at the beginning of my instrument training getting behind the airplane or figuring out my instructor’s “looks about right” approach. I have a friend who was a T-38 IP a couple decades ago and he told me just go out and practice constant airspeed 500 fpm climbs and descents until they’re second nature. Then make standard rate 180 degree turns, then do those at 500 fpm (up and down). Turns out I just needed to do that enough that it became second nature to hear what that sounded like instead of fighting to stay on a glide slope or a track.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Flying IFR and working on getting the rating are two totally different things. For me, getting the rating was just work, actually flying IFR is totally different.
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Totally.

There could be a time when you have to shoot multiple different approaches, have an instrument failure, and fly a hold in the real world, but it's gonna be rare, and frankly you're going to be in control of the pace. If you can manage your DPE and slow things down, that's the best approach, but if you're like me, that sounds great but doesn't actually happen in real life.
 
Sounds like you don’t have a set routine down yet….for instance slow to prepare for approach, load radios and navs, first notch of flaps….once established gear down on dot away on Gs, then reduce power to follow gs. You shouldn’t need to look anywhere but the instruments once you are on the final course.

it wasn’t until I did approaches without my instructor that the flow really became clear for me. Personally it’s 90pct procedure and 10pct flying skill unless it’s a really bumpy day. So my advice is to get the procedure down yourself until it’s second nature. A home PC sim can also do wonders.
 
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4RNB said:
Ah, this again.

So, a local CFII, who would not train me, said this is the first part of IFR lessons. A 2000 hr pilot told me the same.
My CFII did not know what I was talking about and there has been little discussion about it, certainly no instructing on it.
I've tried to do figure this out some on my own with the CFII in the plane, but I get interrupted with either things I am missing or things the CFII wants me to pay attention to.
A week or two ago I was getting some stuff done with the plane well trimmed, light or no control pressures, and real near 478 ft/min.
When I started with my CFII he had only had one student go to a checkride, more have gone by now.
I want to own my issues and avoid blame, but I wonder if someone with some grey hair and perspective would help more.
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Check out pilot workshops.com. They have a few IFR courses and they all talk about creating a list of power settings at different stages…
 
4RNB said:
Background: 53 yo male, own my own plane. I had 3-5 instructors for PPL. So far, just one for instrument, a young buck. I started lessons months ago, flying 3 days a week as able. Farm business interests get in gear in November. Last lesson I met the hour requirements to test. 97 written.


My performance is not good. Just over a week ago doing a failed WaaS RNAV approach I lost SA and went to MDA before the FAF, took foggles off and was LOST. Not how I want to fly IFR, especially with my wife.


Lesson two days ago was crappy. I was late loading an approach into the GPS though I was being vectored. Going out for my first approach I noticed I was low a couple times, thought it was early, was told I busted altitude at two different fixes. On radios I twice announced wrong runway numbers. “ILS got slow”. I loaded a wrong approach into foreflight. I’ve had issues looking back and forth from GPS to my G5s, causing me to turn so I’ve done better just keeping my eyes straight ahead at the G5s. At end of lesson I was told to look at GPS more so that I can better judge intercept. So, lots of things I am doing wrong.


So I came home last lesson quite discouraged, at times wondering if I am too old or incompetent. I considered quitting or taking time off. I’ve had little pleasure in the airplane in months, no $100 hamburger runs, no new airports that I’ve seen, no walks on the beach with my girl. Quitting is really not an option but I am really not sure how to take control of this and do better.


My instructor has already changed airports ½ time and is likely starting a new job in November, says he has to get me finished up this month. Due to his travel, his location availability, and a medical appointment we really only have 4 lessons possible the rest of the month.


In order to facilitate lessons my plane is already 1.5 hours away. So three days a week I drive three hours a day for lessons that at most are two hours.


I’ve thought of doing the following:

  1. Press on as things are, buckle down further, learn from mistakes, embrace them. Address CFII availability later.

  2. Take some time off, bring plane home. My local airport is 10 minutes from home. Try to find a safety pilot for at least weekly foggle time.

  3. Find another CFII. A closer airport (one hour) has $100 an hour CFII that others say they really respect. He runs the airport, not sure of schedule. We flew two hours together.

  4. Try to find a finish up school or hire in someone to come stay local and fly maybe twice a day. I am not sure I can push this through on my time schedule but early November could be manageable with regards to my business interests.

  5. While it has not been misery training, I really wonder if some flying for enjoyment would really be the best therapy.

Any advice? What would you do?
Thank you.
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Less posting on the internet and more studying and flying.
 
ya gotta love internet threads that live on in infamy, along with the potential snark.

I wish mods would allow a poster to close a thread.
 
Salty said:
Totally.

. If you can manage your DPE and slow things down, that's the best approach, but if you're like me, that sounds great but doesn't actually happen in real life.
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If you can manage your DPE and slow things down??? If you can't manage your DPE and slow things down you are not ready to fly instruments by yourself. Delay vectors, do nothing until you are ready.
 
PaulS said:
If you can manage your DPE and slow things down??? If you can't manage your DPE and slow things down you are not ready to fly instruments by yourself. Delay vectors, do nothing until you are ready.
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You can say that all day long, but when I’m in the middle of a checkride I tend to forget it. I agree it’s a bad trait and I’m working on it, but my attitude is not the same when I’m in the middle of a checkride as it is when I’m PIC flying IFR. I wouldn’t have hesitated for a second to slow things down in the situation the dpe put me in, in real life, but in that moment, I felt like I needed to prove I could do it during the checkride. I’m working on it. But it’s a problem with how I take check rides, not how I fly.
 
Salty said:
You can say that all day long, but when I’m in the middle of a checkride I tend to forget it. I agree it’s a bad trait and I’m working on it, but my attitude is not the same when I’m in the middle of a checkride as it is when I’m PIC flying IFR. I wouldn’t have hesitated for a second to slow things down in the situation the dpe put me in, in real life, but in that moment, I felt like I needed to prove I could do it during the checkride. I’m working on it. But it’s a problem with how I take check rides, not how I fly.
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I did quote you. But it was more a general statement, especially for those in the throws of training.

For me, my instructor repeatedly told me not to let anyone rush me or to feel any pressure to try to impress someone, so asking for delay vectors on my check ride was easy. Where I found challenge was flying in areas where controllers are high strung, such as over long Island. I got rattled a few times, mainly trying to prove that I'm good enough to fly there. After a couple times flying there there I came to the realization I was good enough. What was giving me trouble was the rapid fire instructions that contained local dialect, for lack of a better term, that didn't make sense. I found that a simple " say again" would slow them down, cause them to use proper phraseology and make what they needed me to do easy to get done.

It was an important lesson for me, that finally fully clicked.
 
Keep in mind what needs to be accomplished. In this case, it's getting over the hump for IR. Then it depends on what the hump is. Fatigue? Then sure, suck it up - keep going. Learning not working anymore no matter what you do? Then sucking it up isn't helpful, but rather changing training so it works.

Each problem needs its own solution.
 
Each problem needs its own solution.[/QUOTE]

Agree.
 
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