Departing IFR At Uncontrolled Airport - When To Turn With No Instructions

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LastXdeth

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LastXdeth
Let's say you pick up your IFR clearance from center on the ground at an uncontrolled airport.

You then get to the takeoff runway and are subsequently release for departure without any additional instructions (no "fly heading XXX," "fly runway heading, " "proceed on course," nor "turn left/right direct XXXXX," ect., what do yall do?

Just fly straight out until your initial check in with ATC in the air OR should you start proceeding onto your cleared route that's from your clearance?
 
When you get the release with no departure instruction, why not just ask?
 
If no other direction is given, it is assumed to proceed on course once you are at a safe altitude. You will be cleared to a waypoint or destination, so the assumption is you will turn towards the next clearance fix unless otherwise directed. Usually if they assign a heading, it is to help deconflict you with other traffic until they get you on radar and establish communications.
 
MauleSkinner said:
if the airport has instrument approaches, it’s also surveyed for departures. If no specific procedures are published, it has a “diverse departure area”, and once you’re above 400 feet you can make any turns you deem appropriate.
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Exactly. If the airport has an instrument approach, it's either a diverse departure or there is an ODP even if it's a simple as waiting until a certain altitude before turning in a certain direction.

The only issue is when the departure airport has no instrument approach, so it was not surveyed for departure obstacles either. Then you are pretty much on your own. If you are into podcasts, Max and I discussed this on his Aviation NewsTalk podcast. And it was also the subject of an article I wrote for IFR Magazine (sorry, paywall).

And, btw, you want to be aware of this stuff even if the instruction does include, "upon entering controlled airspace, fly heading..." since until there is a vector (a heading after hearing the words, "radar contact") terrain and obstacle separation are on the pilot, not ATC.
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you are into podcasts, Max and I discussed this on his Aviation NewsTalk podcast. And it was also the subject of an article I wrote for IFR Magazine (sorry, paywall).
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Since I don’t have the patience to listen to podcasts and can’t get past the paywall, did you discuss the fact that the obstacles for an airport with no instrument approaches can be taller/steeper than the 200 ft/mile that the FAA assumes you will meet or exceed on climb from an “IFR airport”?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Since I don’t have the patience to listen to podcasts and can’t get past the paywall, did you discuss the fact that the obstacles for an airport with no instrument approaches can be taller/steeper than the 200 ft/mile that the FAA assumes you will meet or exceed on climb from an “IFR airport”?
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You mean like this this stuff on my first solo IFR flight (I reflew it in x-plane when I was writing the article)? Why would I mention that? Just turn left on course. What's the big deal? :fingerwag: :fingerwag: :fingerwag: :fingerwag: :fingerwag: :eek:



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MauleSkinner said:
if the airport has instrument approaches, it’s also surveyed for departures. If no specific procedures are published, it has a “diverse departure area”, and once you’re above 400 feet you can make any turns you deem appropriate.
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Correct. I would add that "any turns you deem appropriate" is safe from a terrain and obstacle perspective, though on an IFR clearance, you need to comply with the clearance (or published ODP, if you so choose).

On that note: I always thought that starting that first turn at 400 feet AGL isn't just safely possible, but is expected by ATC promptly - not for terrain and obstacle clearance, but for traffic or airspace needs. I.e. either fly an ODP or start turning towards your first fix in your cleared route at 400' AGL. But now that I'm looking, I cannot find clear language in Part 91 or the AIM saying the turn as to start the very moment I pass 400' AGL. Does anybody know?

Regards,
Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
On that note: I always thought that starting that first turn at 400 feet AGL isn't just safely possible, but is expected by ATC promptly - not for terrain and obstacle clearance, but for traffic or airspace needs. I.e. either fly an ODP or start turning towards your first fix in your cleared route at 400' AGL. But now that I'm looking, I cannot find clear language in Part 91 or the AIM saying the turn as to start the very moment I pass 400' AGL. Does anybody know?
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I have been in a few discussions on the subject but so far have never seen any guidance mandating a turn at precisely 400 AGL, not even from those who insisted it was some kind of requirement. Only that standard obstacle clearance is predicated on, to use the words of the IPH, "crossing the departure end of the runway (DER) at least 35 feet above the DER elevation, climbing to 400 feet above the DER elevation before making the initial turn, and maintaining a minimum climb gradient of 200 feet per nautical mile (FPNM)."

The only time I am aware of it being any more than than has been at at busy times at towered airports with substantial jet traffic. It seems to have become such an SOP that I have had towers ask me to make that turn pretty close to 400 AGL to get me out of the way. I've heard them do it to VFR traffic as well :D. So, I'll do it then. Otherwise, while I won't take forever because I also know I'm not the only airplane in the IFR world, I don't rush it, especially when it's at least marginally VFR and there are other aircraft in a nontowered pattern.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The only time I am aware of it being any more than than has been at at busy times at towered airports with substantial jet traffic. It seems to have become such an SOP that I have had towers ask me to make that turn pretty close to 400 AGL to get me out of the way. I've heard them do it to VFR traffic as well :D. So, I'll do it then. Otherwise, while I won't take forever because I also know I'm not the only airplane in the IFR world, I don't rush it, especially when it's at least marginally VFR and there are other aircraft in a nontowered pattern.
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Thanks, Mark.

Yes, what you wrote matches my experience. A prompt turn sometimes seems to be expected by ATC at those busier places.

- Martin
 
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