Definition of Initial Application?

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DMartin

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DMartin
Hey all, I've been a long time reader of POA but finally signed up so I could seek some help on a medical issue that has recently come up: Back in 2018 a retinal detachment was identified and surgically corrected in my right eye. After several months and at the surgeons approval I resumed flight training. At the beginning of 2019 I applied and was given a 2nd class medical with the only limitation that corrective lenses must be worn.

Fast forward to now where I visited a different AME and applied for a 1st class medical again and the AME issued it with the requested 8500-07 to be completed by my eye surgeon. I get a call the next day by the office asking to return my medical and that I instead need to submit the 8500-07 along with records of the surgery to the FAA for review. The reason was that "The examiner may not issue a certificate under such circumstances for the initial application, except in the case of applicants following cataract surgery".

Here's my question: what constitutes an initial application? My understanding is that my initial application should have been the 2nd class medical awarded in 2019, and that these subsequent applications can be awarded by the AME with no FAA review. With that being said it does seem as though the previous AME didn't follow procedures and awarded me the 2nd class medical with no review. Thoughts?
 
My understanding is that you can theoretically have 3 initial issuance medical certificates, one each for 3rd, 2nd and 1st class, all with differing levels of scrutiny.

Not really pertinent to your question but I also would imagine there's some sort of "expiration" period on the renewal as well at which point its no longer treated as a renewal but treated more like an initial issuance. Cant imagine the FAA agreeing that someone issued a 1st class medical that lapsed 20 years ago and is now renewing it should be treated the same as someone who's medical just lapsed last month. My guess would be that the "grace period" after a medical expires for you to "renew" it would be 6 months and possibly as much as the normal validity period (1 year for 2nd class and 2 years for 3rd class) of the certificate sought.
 
apr911 said:
My understanding is that you can theoretically have 3 initial issuance medical certificates, one each for 3rd, 2nd and 1st class, all with differing levels of scrutiny.

Not really pertinent to your question but I also would imagine there's some sort of "expiration" period on the renewal as well at which point its no longer treated as a renewal but treated more like an initial issuance. Cant imagine the FAA agreeing that someone issued a 1st class medical that lapsed 20 years ago and is now renewing it should be treated the same as someone who's medical just lapsed last month. My guess would be that the "grace period" after a medical expires for you to "renew" it would be 6 months and possibly as much as the normal validity period (1 year for 2nd class and 2 years for 3rd class) of the certificate sought.
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It would definitly make sense to have multiple cases of an "initial application". I would guess that a new medical following some sort of surgical procedure would definitly fall under such a category. If this is the case, is it worth my while to call the doctor and see if he can issue me a 2nd class medical pending the approval of a first class? I am currently flying for a part 91 operator, so that would let me keep working in the mean time. In addition, I am unclear on whether or not my previous medical is still valid following the deferment, any ideas?
 
You may need to send in your certificate. The issuance was a boo-boo, and call off the dogs. You need an 8500-7 and full humphrey 24-2 visual fields, which if you can get pronto, AND they are normal, FAA will respond by converting it into an SI certificate+ year to year Authorization.....
 
bbchien said:
You may need to send in your certificate. The issuance was a boo-boo, and call off the dogs. You need an 8500-7 and full humphrey 24-2 visual fields, which if you can get pronto, AND they are normal, FAA will respond by converting it into an SI certificate+ year to year Authorization.....
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Thank you for this info! This is exactly what I was looking for. I have since scheduled a visual field test and to have the records/8500-7 copied so I can FedEx (I've heard this is best) to the OKC office hoping to have them processed before the request for additional information is issued. My AME gave me P.O. box 25082, but if someone could confirm that I would be grateful.

In the mean time I think I'll not say anything about my previous medical unless I hear from the FAA. The only flying I'll be doing will be doing some CFI work where I am not a required crewmember anyway. So until I can get this sorted out and go back to flying the normal 91 job, I won't require one.

Edit: I've spoken with my AME and it seems that, forgetting any of these complication, he wouldn't be able to issues a 2nd class medical while this application is still pending.
 
DMartin said:
so I can FedEx (I've heard this is best) to the OKC office
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One additional "pro tip" to increase the chance of positive outcome when submitting any paperwork to the FAA....

On each page you are sending in to OKC, in the upper RH corner, put a sticker that has
  • your full legal name, last first
  • Date of birth
  • Pilot Certificate Number
  • And the numbers from the Airman Medical Certification Division that identifies you to them.
When your package arrives in the mail room at AMCD in OKC, one of the minions is going to open the envelope and get it scanned into the records system. By having all of the proper identifying info on each page, this helps the minion connect the paperwork dot to your database file dot.

And on the rare instance that pages 5 and 8 out of 10 get misplaced and later found, the stickers on those pages will help make sure they are associated with you once they are scanned.
 
DMartin said:
In the mean time I think I'll not say anything about my previous medical unless I hear from the FAA. The only flying I'll be doing will be doing some CFI work where I am not a required crewmember anyway. So until I can get this sorted out and go back to flying the normal 91 job, I won't require one.
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While I get what you are saying, make sure you understand what Dr. Bruce said.....

Which was to consider surrendering your medical certificate while you are working to comply with the standards and obtain all of the required information. Doing so will "call off the dogs" and greatly reduce the chase of any action against you or your certificate should the FAA decide you've been bad.

From reading past contributions from Dr. Bruce about these things, voluntary surrender of a medical certificate is way better than involuntary.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Which was to consider surrendering your medical certificate while you are working to comply with the standards and obtain all of the required information. Doing so will "call off the dogs" and greatly reduce the chase of any action against you or your certificate should the FAA decide you've been bad.
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I must admit that I came here looking for help, but never expected it at this level. So again, I thank everyone who has responded.

I should be clear that I have already mailed back the certificate issued by the AME this past week. I was referring to my previous 2nd class medical that will soon expire and revert to 3rd class privileges. In that case I am not even sure who I would surrender it to, FAA or old AME (who have both given me no complaints for its issuance)? I see no point in trying to circumvent the FAA's correct procedures and I would much rather sort this out the correct way and put it behind me now rather than later when there is more at stake. I posed this question to my AME, or rather, my AME's receptionist and they where also unsure.
 
DMartin said:
Here's my question: what constitutes an initial application? My understanding is that my initial application should have been the 2nd class medical awarded in 2019, and that these subsequent applications can be awarded by the AME with no FAA review. With that being said it does seem as though the previous AME didn't follow procedures and awarded me the 2nd class medical with no review. Thoughts?
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I think the initial application is the first time the condition was reported. It sounds like it was not reported on your 2nd class, otherwise you would have been required to submit 8500-7 with it. After the initial reporting, you have the option to write "previously reported, no change", and I think this is the difference between initial and subsequent applications. IMO, your situation makes your 1st class the initial application because that is when the condition was first reported.
 
lsaway said:
I think the initial application is the first time the condition was reported. It sounds like it was not reported on your 2nd class, otherwise you would have been required to submit 8500-7 with it. After the initial reporting, you have the option to write "previously reported, no change", and I think this is the difference between initial and subsequent applications. IMO, your situation makes your 1st class the initial application because that is when the condition was first reported.
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''

I understand why you may suspect this but the condition was reported on my 2nd class application without a doubt. The doc and I discussed it for a moment during the standard eye test. Looking back on it this AME must have been unfamiliar with the regs, pulling the equipment out for each test as though it had been stored for a while and he is not a pilot himself, which is why I returned to this other AME for my 1st class. I was less familiar with the requirements last year but after my research it is obvious there was a mistake here.
 
It took longer than I was hoping but I was able to get all the required documentation filled out and sent to the FAA today. One thing I noticed is that when I log into MedExpress, it allows me to fill out a new 8500-8 and no longer says I have a pending application. Does this mean they lost/dropped my application? Or am I reading too far into it
 
DMartin said:
It took longer than I was hoping but I was able to get all the required documentation filled out and sent to the FAA today. One thing I noticed is that when I log into MedExpress, it allows me to fill out a new 8500-8 and no longer says I have a pending application. Does this mean they lost/dropped my application? Or am I reading too far into it
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once your AME processes your application, it disappears from MedXpress.

use this FAA site to monitor your med status: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/
 
Just thought I would give an update for anyone interested in current processing types for the OKC office. I did not wait for the request for more information to come from OKC but instead proactively sent in a packet overnight on Jan 23rd. So the office would have received it Jan 24th and I have been told it was not scanned into their system until Jan 30th. I have been calling 1-2 times a week since then and was just informed today, Feb 25th, that a letter has been sent out requesting an additional flight test. I am unclear on weather this is a Statement of demonstrated ability (SODA) or something else, but I'll post an update when I get the letter
 
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