Deal or Dog?

RyanShort1

RyanShort1

Final Approach
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RyanShort1
Ok, so here's the scenario.

Local aircraft, friend of a friend sort of thing. Aeronca Chief or similar airplane possibly available (not on the market) for about $11,000. Just out of annual (older owner) and not badly treated from the looks of it. Currently hangared. Recent rear wooden spar replacement and fabric recover of right wing as a result. Fabric overall looks to me maybe 7-8 of 10 overall and probably OK. Interior is probably a 5-6 of 10 and would be on the "to-do" list. Biggest issue the mechanic said was that the engine (Continental 65hp) has low oil pressure as it warms up. Lots of reading indicates either an oil pressure pump issue (possibly very worn) or main bearings.

Reason for interest in the aircraft - for use as a trainer and occasional personal use, doesn't have to be the cherry of the fleet obviously, but would probably want to "spiffy" it up a bit and put a "panel mounted" GPS on it eventually for "electronic navigation" purposes so it could be used for a checkride. I have flown a similar bird and like the airframe. Actually did a ferry job of one on Friday and had a blast.

Worth pursuing?
 
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What's the payback in terms of flight hours and years?
 
wabower said:
What's the payback in terms of flight hours and years?
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Eventually having my own tailwheel school independent of others' aircraft and being able to operate at different locations. Also, not worrying about a plane possibly getting sold that I have access to...
 
bockwoman3 said:
Sacrilege I tell you!!!! Sacrilege!!!! :yikes::hairraise:
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I agree, but you have to do SOMETHING like that if you want a student to be able to take a checkride in it. Maybe I should get the oldest VOR unit that I can maintain. Nah, then you have to take fabric off, install antennas, etc...
 
That airplane isn't going to have an electrical system. So I don't know how you're gonna run anything panel mounted unless it is via a total loss electrical system, complete with rechargings every few hours of flight time.

If you need panel mounted nav equipment plus something to power it, that upgrade is gonna cost a few bucks and you still have a 65 horse airplane that has to be hand propped, needs to be hangared, and has known engine issues.

Maybe you buy the Chief or something similar, but have your clients rent a C-150 or whatever locally for a few hours to complete their checkride.
 
65 HP just isn't practical for dual (even if it is a Continental)

You'll be grounded (or should be!) on any day above 75 -- which I assume happens often where you are.

An option would be to get the STC for the 90 HP conversion. :thumbsup:
 
I used a J3 with A65 for 18 years for training. Works fine but I didn't
Fly in the middle of the day either,To hot and bumpy.
Low oil pressure is a deal breaker, my Vagabond suffered this recently,
Cracked case and worn out insides. (300 SMOH, fiction)
Price a good overhaul, 10 to 15 thousand, now you have the worlds highest priced Chief.
Keep looking!
Dave
 
Last time I checked, the C-150 isn't LSA qualified. Also, hand-propping is a plus for my business. I'm light enough that a 65hp aircraft DOES work on a summer day. Just flew with a client out to Houston on Friday and did three takeoffs and landings, too.

Ryan
 
d.grimm said:
Low oil pressure is a deal breaker, my Vagabond suffered this recently,
Cracked case and worn out insides. (300 SMOH, fiction)
Price a good overhaul, 10 to 15 thousand, now you have the worlds highest priced Chief.
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That's what I was afraid I'd hear...
 
RyanShort1 said:
Worth pursuing?
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Yes for the right price. the 65 cont, only requires about 5 pounds of oil pressure as I remember.

be absolutely positive of what fabric system it has. cotton may look good and not test good at next annual,

There is a 0-200 upgrade for them so no sweat, buy it.
 
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dmccormack said:
65 HP just isn't practical for dual (even if it is a Continental)

You'll be grounded (or should be!) on any day above 75 -- which I assume happens often where you are.

An option would be to get the STC for the 90 HP conversion. :thumbsup:
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Rubbish...... the Chief will fly 2 on any day you can stand being on the ramp.
 
Tom-D said:
Rubbish...... the Chief will fly 2 on any day you can stand being on the ramp.
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Really? On some hot summer afternoons (temps >85 or so, humidity >60%, Field elevation 1500', )I barely clear the trees solo with full fuel.

Your tolerance for scraping rooftops on takeoff may be higher than mine.
 
dmccormack said:
Really? On some hot summer afternoons (temps >85 or so, humidity >60%, Field elevation 1500', )I barely clear the trees solo with full fuel.

Your tolerance for scraping rooftops on takeoff may be higher than mine.
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Probably, but I had 2000 hours behind a 65 before I took my PPL practical.

If you can't tolerate 200' per minute climbs stick with more horse power.

I'd worry about it if the field was 7000' on a hot day.
 
I did all my primary in a 950 lb empty L2 taylorcraft with a 65 continental. It worked fine at 90 deg in san jose california. Low altitude, low horsepower was no problem for dual. The chief may be on the heavy side but it should do fine for dual unless its up high. There is nowhere up high in texas so it should be fine. My BC12-65 taylorcraft flew fine with me and a passenger up in the new mexico midlands taking off at 80 deg from a 6001' high airport. You learn to pick your thermals sometimes but it worked very well down low when I flew in california. Power isn't the problem with the chief, the engine might be. Tom's right on about there being no source of new parts for the 65 though there is still stuff out there if you look. Used to be a guy in Fresno and another in Visalia who had new old stock stuff. Oil pumps were a common wear item and should be findable. Bearings may be tough. The O-200 upgrade is a good one though you can still find some good 85's out there if you look too.

Frank
 
Tom-D said:
Yes for the right price. the 65 cont, only requires about 5 pounds of oil pressure as I remember.

be absolutely positive of what fabric system it has. cotton may look good and not test good at next annual,

There is a 0-200 upgrade for them so no sweat, buy it.
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The engine's running about 20ish if what the mechanic told me is correct. I believe it has ceconite or one of the newer fabrics, and while it's dusty, it has been hangared. I'll admit that after flying another one to Houston for it's new owner, I'm tempted. It's also cool that it will cruise 20mph faster on the same engine than the Cub will. Makes cross-countries a bit more doable (although I love doing them in the Cub, it's just that any extra margin helps when it's windy). I'm trying to have an LSA tailwheel aircraft that students can fly for under $100/hr.

Ryan
 
Tom-D said:
Probably, but I had 2000 hours behind a 65 before I took my PPL practical.

If you can't tolerate 200' per minute climbs stick with more horse power.

I'd worry about it if the field was 7000' on a hot day.
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Obviously I can tolerate it, Tom, as I own and fly it regularly and have dodged my share of trees on takeoff (anyone observing my departure form Windwood last fall will testify to that).

The point is using it for dual instruction -- the average American 40-something male and me makes about 150 lbs over book gross.

Sure it'll fly -- until it doesn't.
 
As far as weight goes, as long as I can stay <150 lbs., I think I'll be ok. Right now I can carry up to a 250 lb. guy in the Cub I use with full fuel. It does climb slowly, but it's doable.

Ryan
 
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