Dangerous guy

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cowtowner

cowtowner

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Cowtowner
Ok. Debated even posting this. I'm definitely not a Karen

My wife's cousin in law is taking flying lessons. Her aunt called to tell me all about it. How proud they are of him and if I could give him any pointers

Problem is, this guy is verifiably nuts. Been admitted to psych wards for psychosis a few times. Beat his wife to within an inch of her life once, didn't go to jail but was admitted to a ward for 6 months

He's a trust fund kid (35 years old) that never really had a purpose. His wife is the sweetest girl you ever met.

On some pretty serious meds.

And when I looked him up, he has a class 3 medical. So that tells me he lied numerous times on his application.

I definitely don't want to call the FSDO,but will they eventually catch on?

This guy goes through long periods of being normal then goes off the deep end

I mentioned to my wife's aunt that he may not be a good candidate for being a pilot because of his history, but they are convinced this will give him purpose

I personally wouldn't be in a room with him unless I had an extra clip for my weapon
 
If you have any actual evidence of any of this you could show it to the instructor.
 
You might consider sending an anonymous text to the trust fund kid stating his medical is in question and the penalties include a $250K fine and a year in prison (or whatever the stated penalties are now) for lying on the application. Give him a chance to do the right thing. Who knows he may not have read the application closely. You could also let his CFI know if the kid persists. That would likely stop this mess in it's tracks. No need to paint yourself a villian.
 
Note - nothing I post should be construed as telling you what you should or shouldn't do in this case. Just sharing how I would approach such a situation.

Rough position to be in to be sure. I would be curious to hear from the AME crowd on how long it will take for the system to catch up to him (the fact that he probably had a diagnosis and prescriptions that would be disqualifying).

Absent that info, I guess I would look at it this way: how would I feel if a year or two from now this dude kills someone other than himself in a plane? What is the likelihood of that happening?

Would I be second guessing myself and feel that I could have saved someone else's life? That would probably drive my actions.
 
cowtowner said:
...How proud they are of him and if I could give him any pointers

Problem is, this guy is verifiably nuts. Been admitted to psych wards for psychosis a few times. Beat his wife to within an inch of her life once, didn't go to jail but was admitted to a ward for 6 months...
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here's a pointer...........DON'T BEAT YOUR WIFE YA LOUSY PR1CK!!!
 
Most of us here are reluctant to get the FAA involved, especially if it means we're the ones doing the reporting. If this nut flies a plane into a building, you've now posted on a public forum that you knew he had mental issues. I'd report him, if nothing else, to protect myself.
 
Lots of misery has been in the news in the past few years caused by people like this. Neighbors all knew the history but no one took time to get involved.
I seriously doubt this guy will do the right thing on his own. Sociopaths have no feelings for others.
 
No need to narc on your cousin-thrice-removed, or whatever he is. Do you know who his AME was?

If so, anonymously report the AME to OKC for having issued. Assume your guy told the truth. Let the FAA take it from there.

:D
 
BTW, keep in mind that he’ll never need an FAA exam again if he goes Basic Med when this medical expires, and the FAA can’t revoke an expired medical.
 
Yeah, I would probably make the call. We just don't need people like this flying, too many people think personal flying should be banned already, we don't need impaired people acting as pilots risking catastrophe.
 
Trouble with society today is we are too tolerant. As pilots we do have to police ourselves. This is no different than a disturbed individual amassing weapons and ammo.
Best to intervene and let the authorities figure it out from there.
 
Man, and here I am, deciding to be honest about something that happened in the last century during childhood that is likely not even discoverable, making me decide to settle for sport pilot :mad::mad:
 
N444MD said:
You might consider sending an anonymous text to the trust fund kid stating his medical is in question and the penalties include a $250K fine and a year in prison (or whatever the stated penalties are now) for lying on the application. Give him a chance to do the right thing. Who knows he may not have read the application closely. You could also let his CFI know if the kid persists. That would likely stop this mess in it's tracks. No need to paint yourself a villian.
Click to expand...
HAHAHAHA! You must be joking! NICE! You had me going for a minute!
 
cowtowner said:
Ok. Debated even posting this. I'm definitely not a Karen

My wife's cousin in law is taking flying lessons. Her aunt called to tell me all about it. How proud they are of him and if I could give him any pointers

Problem is, this guy is verifiably nuts. Been admitted to psych wards for psychosis a few times. Beat his wife to within an inch of her life once, didn't go to jail but was admitted to a ward for 6 months

He's a trust fund kid (35 years old) that never really had a purpose. His wife is the sweetest girl you ever met.

On some pretty serious meds.

And when I looked him up, he has a class 3 medical. So that tells me he lied numerous times on his application.

I definitely don't want to call the FSDO,but will they eventually catch on?

This guy goes through long periods of being normal then goes off the deep end

I mentioned to my wife's aunt that he may not be a good candidate for being a pilot because of his history, but they are convinced this will give him purpose

I personally wouldn't be in a room with him unless I had an extra clip for my weapon
Click to expand...
I think there are reasons for concern if you don’t say something, and also reasons for concern if you do. There have been recent examples posted on this board of situations where someone without a medical or the proper paperwork still killed someone in a plane. If the guy’s already soloed, maybe it’s best for him to actually get good training and finish… And there’s also the question: Will he beat his wife or someone else up if he finds out you were the one who narced on him, too? Tough call, IMO.
 
Report this guy for sure. I would start with the instructor or the school..

Remember that fake cop who crashed the Cessna Twin a few years ago somewhere near LA?
 
OP, what’s the desired outcome of all this? Do you have the ability to control the outcome?
 
cowtowner said:
Ok. Debated even posting this. I'm definitely not a Karen

My wife's cousin in law is taking flying lessons. Her aunt called to tell me all about it. How proud they are of him and if I could give him any pointers

Problem is, this guy is verifiably nuts. Been admitted to psych wards for psychosis a few times. Beat his wife to within an inch of her life once, didn't go to jail but was admitted to a ward for 6 months

He's a trust fund kid (35 years old) that never really had a purpose. His wife is the sweetest girl you ever met.

On some pretty serious meds.

And when I looked him up, he has a class 3 medical. So that tells me he lied numerous times on his application.

I definitely don't want to call the FSDO,but will they eventually catch on?

This guy goes through long periods of being normal then goes off the deep end

I mentioned to my wife's aunt that he may not be a good candidate for being a pilot because of his history, but they are convinced this will give him purpose

I personally wouldn't be in a room with him unless I had an extra clip for my weapon
Click to expand...

I think this is a problem for his CFI, DPE and AME, I would leave it alone
 
FrankBravo said:
I think this is a problem for his CFI, DPE and AME, I would leave it alone
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How is it their problem? Unless he tries to kill them, in which case, you're being a bit callous, don't you think?

None of them are responsible for verifying he filled out the medical forms truthfully.
 
The least personally-revealing way to approach this would be an anonymous letter to FAA Aeromedical. One of the docs here might be able to provide the best contact for that. This doesn't seem to be a borderline case, from your description, so I would not be inclined to give the benefit of a doubt. But you may want to have this thread scrubbed by the mods so it isn't easily discoverable by him.
 
cowtowner said:
My wife's cousin in law is taking flying lessons. Her aunt called to tell me all about it. How proud they are of him and if I could give him any pointers
Click to expand...

I think that is your opening. Raise concerns to the aunt or cousin directly (or through your wife).
 
cowtowner said:
Ok. Debated even posting this. I'm definitely not a Karen

My wife's cousin in law is taking flying lessons. Her aunt called to tell me all about it. How proud they are of him and if I could give him any pointers

Problem is, this guy is verifiably nuts. Been admitted to psych wards for psychosis a few times. Beat his wife to within an inch of her life once, didn't go to jail but was admitted to a ward for 6 months

He's a trust fund kid (35 years old) that never really had a purpose. His wife is the sweetest girl you ever met.

On some pretty serious meds.

And when I looked him up, he has a class 3 medical. So that tells me he lied numerous times on his application.

I definitely don't want to call the FSDO,but will they eventually catch on?

This guy goes through long periods of being normal then goes off the deep end

I mentioned to my wife's aunt that he may not be a good candidate for being a pilot because of his history, but they are convinced this will give him purpose

I personally wouldn't be in a room with him unless I had an extra clip for my weapon
Click to expand...
I hate to say it but I think you really have no choice but to report and I think you know it going into it. The question is how. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard And lonely. But when he deletes himself and he takes somebody with him, you will never be able to live with yourself.
 
Morgan3820 said:
How would these individuals know that there is a problem?
Click to expand...

If he’s that obviously a nut, they’ll notice it


Salty said:
How is it their problem? Unless he tries to kill them, in which case, you're being a bit callous, don't you think?

None of them are responsible for verifying he filled out the medical forms truthfully.
Click to expand...

How is it anyone on this threads problem?

No one here is responsible for those forms ether


Sounds like bad blood and making problems for people, I would say if he is going to report it make sure you let this guy know you are reporting him, if it is not important enough to own it, it’s not important enough to report


If the poster feels this is important enough to let everyone know, the FAA the locals at the airport, CFI, AME that he is the one who reported the guy, in that OK
 
Brad Z said:
This is exactly what the FAA safety hotline is for.

FAA Hotline | Federal Aviation Administration
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WTF?? From the link "The FAA Hotline does not accept certain types of reports. If we receive these types of reports, you may not receive a response from our office, or these matters may be redirected to the appropriate FAA office."

It would be nice if they went into a little more detail....
 
FrankBravo said:
Sounds like bad blood and making problems for people, I would say if he is going to report it make sure you let this guy know you are reporting him, if it is not important enough to own it, it’s not important enough to report
Click to expand...

This right here. Only real anonymous way to do this is possibly the hotline that Brad Z. posted. Other than that, if you think you should act, then act. I have had to have a lot of difficult conversations in my life, and they don't get easier by not being direct. Passing the buck to the school or CFI isn't the way to go, and they will most certainly out you.
 
Salty said:
If you have any actual evidence of any of this you could show it to the instructor.
Click to expand...
Evidence would be good to have. Oh aunt sally I thought Joe went to the psych ward but it was really Johnny huh?
 
FrankBravo said:
If he’s that obviously a nut, they’ll notice it
Click to expand...
Let’s say the CFI does notice that he’s a nut. what is he going to do? He’ll just pass it on to the next CFI and so on and so on.
Use the hotline let the FAA do what it does best

I don’t suppose you remember the Thiokol engineer for the SRBs? When lives are on the line, it’s best to report. I work in the aerospace industry and I report stuff all the time. Because it’s the right thing to do
 
"I will not lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those that do".

Simple words, makes the decision clear. That does NOT mean the decision is easy.
 
tree9er said:
This right here. Only real anonymous way to do this is possibly the hotline that Brad Z. posted. Other than that, if you think you should act, then act. I have had to have a lot of difficult conversations in my life, and they don't get easier by not being direct. Passing the buck to the school or CFI isn't the way to go, and they will most certainly out you.
Click to expand...
The original poster said he already mentioned it to the aunt and she blew it off. Sounds like the family is a bunch of enablers. Call the FAA
 
cowtowner said:
as I said. He can go months of being perfectly normal and then bam....nutter

He isn't local to me, so I'm gonna fill out the form on the FAA website.
Thanks. Y'all can close the thread
Click to expand...

That wasn’t someone who heard from their aunt that her twice removed cousin attempted to murder his wife once and was in some mental asylum, but they let him go for some reason

This doesn’t sound firsthand enough or imminent enough that it should be reported with anything less than full disclosure to everyone involved of whom is doing the reporting

Potentially lying on applications is bad, but so is potentially bogus reporting people

If the person refuses to put their name on it and be public about this “dangerous person” I have very large doubts on how dangerous this person honestly is


The family member local to this person is not concerned, the wife he apparently tried to kill still is his wife, his AME CFI and others at the school didn’t notice anything and the reporter isn’t even local to this person?
 
FrankBravo said:
Potentially lying on applications is bad, but so is potentially bogus reporting people

If the person refuses to put their name on it and be public about this “dangerous person” I have very large doubts on how dangerous this person honestly is
Click to expand...

OP appears confident in his personal knowledge of this individual's history. The FAA can use their sources to sort out if this information is true or not. If there is nothing to support it, it's likely (but not certain) the FAA will drop it.

As far as personally identifying yourself to a person with a "known" violent history in an action like this, that is a huge personal risk. In case you haven't noticed, we have more than a few mentally unbalanced folks out there who don't seem very repressed in their willingness to express themselves violently and vengefully.
 
FrankBravo said:
That wasn’t someone who heard from their aunt that her twice removed cousin attempted to murder his wife once and was in some mental asylum, but they let him go for some reason

This doesn’t sound firsthand enough or imminent enough that it should be reported with anything less than full disclosure to everyone involved of whom is doing the reporting

Potentially lying on applications is bad, but so is potentially bogus reporting people

If the person refuses to put their name on it and be public about this “dangerous person” I have very large doubts on how dangerous this person honestly is


The family member local to this person is not concerned, the wife he apparently tried to kill still is his wife, his AME CFI and others at the school didn’t notice anything and the reporter isn’t even local to this person?
Click to expand...
I disagree. There is more to lose if you don’t report it. The immediate family has done nothing about this guy for years.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I disagree. There is more to lose if you don’t report it. The immediate family has done nothing about this guy for years.
Click to expand...

So the people around this violent dangerous person are not concerned, but the distant relative knows better

Having been reported to the FAA a couple times, and having to send all my stuff to them and nothing came from it, I really dislike people who try to make issues for others when they are unwilling to have any skin in the game

Wonder what would happen if you FOIA the FAA hotline?
 
FrankBravo said:
So the people around this violent dangerous person are not concerned, but the distant relative knows better

Having been reported to the FAA a couple times, and having to send all my stuff to them and nothing came from it, I really dislike people who try to make issues for others when they are unwilling to have any skin in the game

Wonder what would happen if you FOIA the FAA hotline?
Click to expand...
Such records would be exempted from FOIA under the various provisions of exemption 7.
 
This is why the Navy has Anymouse. Also why I made that program electronic in my squadron.
 
FrankBravo said:
So the people around this violent dangerous person are not concerned, but the distant relative knows better
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..not really a fair comparison
(A) OP and poster know a thing or two about aviation while immediate family does not

(B) people immediately surrounding a dangerous or abusive person generally find some way to rationalize it. How many people stay in abusive relationships.. "you don't really know him" or "he can be so sweet when he's nice" or "he's a complicated person" .. F that. If you lay a hand on a spouse or family member you lose all respect. Plus, if this guy is on psychotropic drugs he ought to be nowhere near a plane.

FrankBravo said:
Having been reported to the FAA a couple times
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this isn't really the norm. I've been flying for 22 years and have been reported exactly zero times. I've also never reported anyone, for what it's worth. But I can understand why OP, and general consensus here, is to step up in this case.
 
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