Dakota Upgrades - UPDATED

GaryP1007

GaryP1007

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Feb 21, 2018
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130
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Chandler, AZ
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GaryP1007
Went to the avionics shop yesterday to fine tune my quote and talk through a few options. Was thinking I would do the JPI 900 engine monitor, the GFC 500 autopilot, transponder with weather, 2 G5's and Flight Stream 210. This was going to cost me about $50k with installation.

HOLD EVERYTHING

Now come to find out the autopilot isnt on the STC list for the coming 12 months (and no one knows when), so now I am faced with doing the G5's and keeping the vacuum system with my current AP.

I had the shop come up with a price for the GTN750, new audio panel, 2 G5's, transponder/with weather, the engine monitor as above as well as a yoke mounted Aera796 and FlightStream 510. Essentially $50 K again.

I wonder if I should consider the Aspen and get rid of the vacuum system (I really hate the vac)...not sure of the price difference. I could always downgrade to the GTN 650 or just keep my 430W.

Then flying back to my home airport had a ground speed of 106 (crazy headwinds) and got ****ed again about the slowness of this plane and wondered if I should invest in it any further.

Please share any opinions.
 
I would think twice before spending all that money,if there are doubts about keeping the plane for a long time.
 
No reason to hate vacuum. It’s not the system’s fault that it sucks.

When dry pump gets close to end of life either install a 1,000 hour sigma tek or a wet pump. Either way you are good for a long time.

Install the flightstream 210 for 430w connectivity. Install an ADS-B in/out transponder of some flavor (one that plays well with the 430w).

Maybe install two G5’s or an Aspen.

Done and it’s a sellable plane.
 
FS210 with the G430W rocks!!! It adds years of life to the 430W. My set-up also includes the GTX-345 transponder with ADS-B in.

The AHRS data from FS210 in addition to ADS-B data from the 345, both integrate onto Foreflight beautifully.

I get traffic alerts on the 430W and see them on the iPad for greater analysis. Making and adjusting flight plans on FF and 1 button to upload to 430W is fantastic. Button twisting has dropped dramatically.

We are at a marketplace tipping point where not having some kind of panel GPS really inhibits sales price for planes like Dakota's or 182's.
 
NordicDave said:
FS210 with the G430W rocks!!! It adds years of life to the 430W. My set-up also includes the GTX-345 transponder with ADS-B in.

The AHRS data from FS210 in addition to ADS-B data from the 345, both integrate onto Foreflight beautifully.

I get traffic alerts on the 430W and see them on the iPad for greater analysis. Making and adjusting flight plans on FF and 1 button to upload to 430W is fantastic. Button twisting has dropped dramatically.

We are at a marketplace tipping point where not having some kind of panel GPS really inhibits sales price for planes like Dakota's or 182's.
Click to expand...
Thats great input. Let me rethink my spend. How about speed? Any help....LOL?
 
Clark1961 said:
No reason to hate vacuum. It’s not the system’s fault that it sucks.

When dry pump gets close to end of life either install a 1,000 hour sigma tek or a wet pump. Either way you are good for a long time.

Install the flightstream 210 for 430w connectivity. Install an ADS-B in/out transponder of some flavor (one that plays well with the 430w).

Maybe install two G5’s or an Aspen.

Done and it’s a sellable plane.
Click to expand...
Any idea of the cost of the Aspen?
 
Which Aspen? You can pic and choose your options now.
 
For my 182 we are going with dual G5, Garmin 345 and upgrading the 530 to WAAS. As of now that is running close to 20k installed. Did a JPI 830 over the fall. We were quoted 4K just for the install. We did it ourselves being partner is A&P. Fully understand why it’s 4k just to install.

It’s quite obvious the components for upgrades don’t cost too much, it’s the labor involved.
 
GaryP1007 said:
Any idea of the cost of the Aspen?
Click to expand...
ProPFD should be in the 10 to 12 amu range installed. YMWV, prices higher in California, Ohio, New Jersey, and Topeka. Dealer Participation may vary. Title, license, and taxes are not include. Supplies are limited. This offer may not be available. Terms subject to change. Smoking pot is still illegal in Colorado if you’re on Federal land. Vote early, vote often if in Chicago.
 
I upgraded my 430 to 430W, Installed PSE 450A audio panel, GTX-345 transponder, Garmin Alt encoder, Aittex 406mhz ELT, new marker beacon antenna, all new wiring, and used FS210; also pulled ADF, DME, KMA24, old marker beacon antenna, Telex intercom all for $14,800. Since last year the 430 WAAS upgrade has increased $1000.

Got $1200 for the used gear and $500 from FAA ADS-B rebate program. Net installed price was $13,300 and gained 25 lbs useful load.

I thought this was a pretty fair deal that added years to my 182.
 
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NordicDave said:
I upgraded my 430 to 430W, Installed PSE 450A audio panel, GTX-345 transponder, Garmin Alt encoder, Aittex 406mhz ELT, new marker beacon antenna, all new wiring, and used FS210; also pulled ADF, DME, KMA24, old marker beacon antenna, Telex intercom all for $14,800. Since last year the 430 WAAS upgrade has increased $1000.

Got $1200 for the used gear and $500 from FAA ADS-B rebate program. Net installed price was $13,300 and gained 25 lbs useful load.

I thought this was a pretty fair deal that added years to my 182.
Click to expand...

That does't seem to be 25lbs of change to me. More like like 5 lbs for the ADF and DME.
 
Check out the Dynon skyview system, certified for Cessna 172 PA28 coming soon
includes glass panel display, 2 axis autopilot, ADS-B in and out, transponder, engine instruments.
 
GaryP1007 said:
I had the shop come up with a price for the GTN750, new audio panel, 2 G5's, transponder/with weather, the engine monitor as above as well as a yoke mounted Aera796 and FlightStream 510. Essentially $50 K again.

Please share any opinions.
Click to expand...

Gary, have you decided on the audio panel?

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
mscheuer said:
Gary, have you decided on the audio panel?

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
Click to expand...

I haven’t decided anything yet. Still trying to determine if I pull the trigger or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm looking at very, very similar upgrades to you. 2 x G5s, GTN 750, GTX-345. Maybe upgrade my EDM 730 to an EDM 830. Will be interested to see how yours goes!
 
That's a lot of dough to make an IFR functioning panel just look prettier. I would love to upgrade my panel but reality I want gain any more capability for the money. It will look cooler, perhaps make my workload less, but I can do a lot of work for 50k.
 
Katamarino said:
I'm looking at very, very similar upgrades to you. 2 x G5s, GTN 750, GTX-345. Maybe upgrade my EDM 730 to an EDM 830. Will be interested to see how yours goes!
Click to expand...
Katamarino said:
I'm looking at very, very similar upgrades to you. 2 x G5s, GTN 750, GTX-345. Maybe upgrade my EDM 730 to an EDM 830. Will be interested to see how yours goes!
Click to expand...
Did you get a quote for the work?
 
Grum.Man said:
That's a lot of dough to make an IFR functioning panel just look prettier. I would love to upgrade my panel but reality I want gain any more capability for the money. It will look cooler, perhaps make my workload less, but I can do a lot of work for 50k.
Click to expand...
 
Not only prettier but I believe safer. All the items will add to my capability to fly the plane better. Engine monitor. Enhanced IFR tools with G5’s and situational awareness with an upgraded GPS. And yes some pretty too.....
 
Baron62 said:
That does't seem to be 25lbs of change to me. More like like 5 lbs for the ADF and DME.
Click to expand...

NordicDave said:
The old ADF antenna alone was over 6lbs.
Click to expand...

I gained about 25 lbs as well, and also had a tank of an ADF antenna. Those things must be made of lead or something, they're much denser than they look!

Also @Baron62, keep in mind that, for example, swapping out an old audio panel for a new one is probably going to save a few pounds simply because newer technology is smaller and lighter. For example, going from an Insight 602 to a newer Insight G3 engine monitor, the size of the unit itself gets cut in half, and the weight probably gets cut by more than that. Seeing the components before and after on our recent upgrade was eye-opening!
 
Like Cheesehead said above.... everything replaced was lighter, and removing even more gear beyond what was replaced gain a lot of useful load.
 
NordicDave said:
We are at a marketplace tipping point where not having some kind of panel GPS really inhibits sales price for planes like Dakota's or 182's.
Click to expand...

Our assessment was the same. Mostly because you’re going to need a certified source for ADS-B OUT and you can either bite the bullet and go full IFR GPS, or go cheap and do a transponder that has its own GPS source, own antenna, and not get any of the benefit of ADS-B IN into the panel, besides the uncertified iPad stuff. So we bit. Plus the gradual but obvious loss of VOR transition routes on approach plates and more approaches to more places with WAAS every day. It just made sense to flip from /A, really /U when the DME died literally days after my IR rating ride, to /G.

TommyG said:
We did it ourselves being partner is A&P. Fully understand why it’s 4k just to install.

It’s quite obvious the components for upgrades don’t cost too much, it’s the labor involved.
Click to expand...

Hey! There’s an idea. We need one of those! LOL. A&P partners that is. Hahaha.

Yeah, our shop cleaned up a mess behind our panel. It’s actually nice to look up behind there now. And quite handy that everything is properly bundled and tied off. When the stupid D-Sub connector wasn’t quite clipped on tight and fell off the back of the blind encoder it wasn’t like looking under there in the past and hunting for loose things in the wiring mess. It was “Oh, the nicely loomed cable is hanging right next to the blind encoder. Looks like it wasn’t clipped on tight and vibrated off.” I was prepared for a fight when I stuck myself upside down and backward on the pax seat to take a look. I got a big smile on my face when I turned on the flashlight. :) Nothing better than a nicely done cable management and dressing job! The old telecom guy in me was impressed.

flyingcheesehead said:
I gained about 25 lbs as well, and also had a tank of an ADF antenna. Those things must be made of lead or something, they're much denser than they look!
Click to expand...

This is funny because we got our weight loss program back when we pulled the ADF and multiple POUNDS of SOME of that bad wiring that had built up over the years, many years before the GPS work. So our final W&B after the new GPS, transponder, OBS, and new breakers, wiring, and GPS antenna was 1.6 lbs heavier.

And I’m kinda annoyed they did it in tenths. LOL. Never had a W&B in this airplane measured in tenths of a pound since it left the factory in 1975 that I can see on any of MANY W&B changes. Both a sign that the shop is accurate and also a sign that everybody else rounded off for over 40 years. LOL. Measure with a micrometer...

The shop was probably embarrassed that we lost a pound of useful load with all the new gear and tried to keep it below two. Hahaha. :)

I, of course, can see the difference on the Cessna graphs for W&B caused by 1.6 lbs. Can’t everyone? ;) Must be the new glasses. :) :) :)
 
Grum.Man said:
That's a lot of dough to make an IFR functioning panel just look prettier. I would love to upgrade my panel but reality I want gain any more capability for the money. It will look cooler, perhaps make my workload less, but I can do a lot of work for 50k.
Click to expand...
50K and selling my cherokee, I could probably pick up an older mooney or a 182.

or remodel the kitchen and still have enough left over to get a new car and a couple G5 for the cherokee.
 
murphey said:
50K and selling my cherokee, I could probably pick up an older mooney or a 182.

or remodel the kitchen and still have enough left over to get a new car and a couple G5 for the cherokee.
Click to expand...

I did the kitchen last year.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
labbadabba said:
You can always remove the wheels. But that trick only works once.
Click to expand...

Me, I'd remove not only he wheels but all those ****ing fancy radios and go with the minimum required by Pat 91. Dead reckon and pilotage, you know, pilot shet, do some of it, way more fun.
 
GaryP1007 said:
Went to the avionics shop yesterday to fine tune my quote and talk through a few options. Was thinking I would do the JPI 900 engine monitor, the GFC 500 autopilot, transponder with weather, 2 G5's and Flight Stream 210. This was going to cost me about $50k with installation.

HOLD EVERYTHING

Now come to find out the autopilot isnt on the STC list for the coming 12 months (and no one knows when), so now I am faced with doing the G5's and keeping the vacuum system with my current AP.

I had the shop come up with a price for the GTN750, new audio panel, 2 G5's, transponder/with weather, the engine monitor as above as well as a yoke mounted Aera796 and FlightStream 510. Essentially $50 K again.

I wonder if I should consider the Aspen and get rid of the vacuum system (I really hate the vac)...not sure of the price difference. I could always downgrade to the GTN 650 or just keep my 430W.

Then flying back to my home airport had a ground speed of 106 (crazy headwinds) and got ****ed again about the slowness of this plane and wondered if I should invest in it any further.

Please share any opinions.
Click to expand...

I would buy what you want, who cares what the peanut gallery things you should have?
 
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