Custom Checklist

midlifeflyer said:
I can't disagree with that.

Years ago I was doing a 172 → 182 transition. Like many, when he got his primary training in the 172, his pre-landing check was simple - the fuel is still on both, the mixture was set appropriately and the carb heat was hot. Flaps had been done incrementally in the pattern, so that wasn't an issue. No need for a written checklist for something that simple, right?

The addition of the prop in the 182 was no big deal but the trainee invariably forgot the cowl flaps. Every. Single. Time. After several reminders, I gave up and Instead of reminding him, I started just saying, "something is missing." He would look all around the cockpit trying to figure it out. Everywhere, that is, except the checklist sitting on the glareshield in his line of sight. His primary training taught him to ignore the checklist and it was out of mind even when it was in sight.
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I’ll bet he was confused. Cowl flaps aren’t on the manufacturer’s Before Landing and Landing checklist.
 
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dmspilot said:
What is item 4?
View attachment 131544
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This is why I hate some checklists.
Why not just leave the fuel selector to both the entire flight?
Flaps 0-40°? Is there a 50° setting?
Setting elevator trim, do you really need that to be a checklist item? If it’s out of trim I would expect a pilot to figure it out on their own.
You need airspeed in there twice, why not just follow flaps example, airspeed 60-80?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Why not just leave the fuel selector to both the entire flight?
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Normally you do, but high wing “both” aircraft can be subject to a number of things which result in differences in fuel flow between the wing tanks. When that happens, pilots will switch tanks to maintain a fuel (and lateral weight) balance. The checklist item is the reminder to return to both for landing.

(I agree with you on others)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Normally you do, but high wing “both” aircraft can be subject to a number of things which result in differences in fuel flow between the wing tanks. When that happens, pilots will switch tanks to maintain a fuel (and lateral weight) balance. The checklist item is the reminder to return to both for landing.

(I agree with you on others)
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A bit of a thread shift, but is this really a problem?
If you fly alone you’re unbalancing the aircraft, I know you’re not far from centerline but still some pilots are rather heavy.
In my Mooney there’s no discernible difference when I burn down one tank, then the other.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
A bit of a thread shift, but is this really a problem?
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It can be. I have been in Skylanes in which it was a factor. The tendency to lower the heavy wing was noticeable. It happens with low wings too - a hint is an aileron trim control, as in Bonanzas. There are even aircraft which have fuel imbalance limitations.

It actually may be the most important part of rolling your own checklist - to consider why an item is there before automatically rejecting it based on prior experience in a different airframe.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
It actually may be the most important part of rolling your own checklist - to consider why an item is there before automatically rejecting it based on prior experience in a different airframe.
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YES. And to consider whether there are things you need to be reminded of, or want to be handy, which aren't on the standard list.

I hate the single-sheet commercial checklists. They're too cluttered, and it's simply not necessary to have everything on a single sheet with font so small that I have trouble reading the blasted thing.

My custom checklist is in book format, using 5.5x8 inch sheet protectors held together with split rings. For any given activity (like preflight or start), every item is on one or two sheets. I open the booklet to that section and fold it back, and everything I need is there and nothing I don't need. When I finish preflight, I turn the page to the start checklist and again that's all I see; there's nothing unneccessary. Once I finish with a section, it's folded away and I don't have to look at it again.

Doing it this way let's me use larger fonts and place critical flow items in bold. Each section has its own border color (brown for preflight, green for start, etc.), and the emergency checklist has its own section with a locator tab.

Making my own checklist also let's me include information that I may need in flight, such as rpm for power settings at various altitudes and local radio frequencies.
 
Half Fast said:
My custom checklist is in book format, using 5.5x8 inch sheet protectors held together with split rings. For any given activity (like preflight or start), every item is on one or two sheets. I open the booklet to that section and fold it back, and everything I need is there and nothing I don't need. When I finish preflight, I turn the page to the start checklist and again that's all I see; there's nothing unneccessary. Once I finish with a section, it's folded away and I don't have to look at it again.
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Yes, customization means you do what you need.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Our resident pretend AnP once again shows total lack of knowledge or understanding, and even links an article which contradicts his statement in an argument to back up his claim.

Maybe the blue juice fumes on the lav truck he drives is getting to him.
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I read the article to say that hand made checklists are a source of incorrect information. If the FAA warns you not to do something, or that you really should do something, then that means someone screwed up to the point they had to say something. I mean there is a warning not to drink the skydrol.... someone must know something.

What student pilot or ppl checks the tattered old laminated checklist against the APPROVED documentation aka POH? I've rented planes that had multiple checklists in the side pocket... which one is correct? Answer, the POH.

If dOc was an MX he should know that even a copy of a manual page is no longer approved and must be labeled 'for reference only'. Not my rules, but the FAA's.
 
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pfarber said:
I read the article to say that hand made checklists are a source of incorrect information. If the FAA warns you not to do something, or that you really should do something, then that means someone screwed up to the point they had to say something. I mean there is a warning not to drink the skydrol.... someone must know something.

What student pilot or ppl checks the tattered old laminated checklist against the APPROVED documentation aka POH? I've rented planes that had multiple checklists in the side pocket... which one is correct? Answer, the POH.

If dOc was an MX he should know that even a copy of a manual page is no longer approved and must be labeled 'for reference only'. Not my rules, but the FAA's.
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You lack reading comprehension. That’s a fact on many statements you’ve made on this board that can’t be backed up with facts.

You recently proclaimed if an airplane had two VOR receivers and one was inop, the plane couldn’t be flown IFR. Yet another example of trying to comprehend material.

You’ve already been asked multiple times to point out within the article you posted the language you claim it has. That would be a simple cut and paste.

Your last paragraph is yet another example of your low level comprehension skills.

It’s amazing they even let you drive the lav truck. :rolleyes:
 
midlifeflyer said:
That's an interesting question. You might get some numbers, but there are probably factors other than those two at work.

I gave a flight review in a Mooney the other day. As we descended to the pattern, the pilot pulled the throttle back far enough to generate the gear up warning tone. He made a point of noting it and saying the reason it happened (good), but didn't do anything to stop it. During the debrief, I suggested that letting an alarm continue without correcting it can result in ultimately ignoring it in exactly the wrong situation; planning descent power reductions earlier to avoid the need to reduce power to gear warning level would be a better technique.
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I have wondered if this is the reason some pilots stall the plane and crash after an engine failure. Do they get so used to hearing the stall horn during landing that in an emergency they don't recognize the danger until it's too late?

I chose not to put a stall warning system in my plane for this reason. In my case I think it has made me very aware of the energy state of my LSA aircraft at all times.

I spent 20 years flying Cessnas and I don't think I was all that aware of the "energy state". I think I just focused on the instruments and stall horn.

And yes, I do understand I was not a good pilot.

After 30 years of recreational flying and a, less than useful IFR ticket, I think I'm getting a little better at it.
 
pfarber said:
I read the article to say that hand made checklists are a source of incorrect information.
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I didn’t see ANYTHING in the article you linked about hand made (or homemade) checklists.
 
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Lndwarrior said:
I have wondered if this is the reason some pilots stall the plane and crash after an engine failure. Do they get so used to hearing the stall horn during landing that in an emergency they don't recognize the danger until it's too late?
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I doubt it the momentary stall waring just before touchdown would have that effect. But ignoring warnings was at least part of the reason the FAA changed (not without a lot of controversy) the way slow flight was tested. For decades, the goal was to have the stall warning blaring - slow enough that any further increase in AoA would result in a stall. It changed to where any increase in AoA would result in a stall warning.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I didn’t see ANYTHING in the article you linked about hand made (or homemade) checklists.
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The focus was obviously on generic COTS but it does say.

The FAA has issued a Safety Alert for Operators (SAFO), warning pilots to use caution when using commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) or personally developed checklists during aircraft operations.​

But be careful when you write them doesn't support his flat statement that:
The FAA has recently come out and advised pilots AGAINST home made lists​
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And is several thousand nautical miles from
the ONLY checklist you can legally use is the one actually INSIDE the POH/Manual
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I’m interested to know which FAR stares that the checklist in the POH is the only legal one.
 
ateamer said:
I’m interested to know which FAR stares that the checklist in the POH is the only legal one.
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I’ve heard that statement before, so it’s a long-standing myth.

I’d bet that for the majority of GA airplanes flying today, the checklist in the POH contains errors, as it doesn’t include changes for aftermarket mods. If a pilot DOESN'T develop his own checklists, he’s probably at risk for incorrectly operating the aircraft in accordance with 91.9.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’d bet that for the majority of GA airplanes flying today, the checklist in the POH contains errors, as it doesn’t include changes for aftermarket mods. If a pilot DOESN'T develop his own checklists, he’s probably at risk for incorrectly operating the aircraft in accordance with 91.9.
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Which is pretty much what the FAA actually says in recommending that we create our own (FAA video previously linked).
 
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